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Why doesn't the washing machine start, spin? Replacing brushes, comparing old and new after 10 years

p.kaczmarek2 1530 25
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  • Samsung Diamond washing machine with display showing number 12 on control panel
    How do the brushes look after 10 years of use? Today I will present a simple washing machine repair, a process that anyone can do at home. The patient is a Samsung Diamond WF8502NMW, which occasionally shows code 3E and usually just doesn't start at all. When the spinning alone is switched on, the timer goes from 12 to 11 and then goes back to 12 again and the drum does not start spinning. In addition, the owner reports that strange black dust has been collecting under the washing machine for some time. It's time to check what's broken.
    Samsung washing machine panel showing error code 3E and red door lock icon
    I didn't have time to take pictures, but I used the phone as a torch, so I have a video. Of course, first we unplug the unit from the mains. Access to the motor is very easy here.



    The characteristic black dust comes from the brushes. Brushes are the current-carrying components in motors that come into contact with the commutator. Such brushes gradually wear away as the motor runs, causing fine carbon dust to settle inside the washing machine. It is time to check how worn down the brushes are in the unit being repaired. Access is easy and they can be unscrewed without further disassembly.



    By the way, in the video, you can still see the RPM sensor on the 'end' of the motor - it too can be damaged.
    The screws are on both sides - but the phone can help us locate them, I myself often use it as a substitute for an inspection camera.



    Almost done, now the wires still need to be disconnected from them. Disconnect the flat connectors (pins), but don't pull, just push in the "tongue".
    Worn-out washing machine motor brushes and enclosures on white background
    The brushes appeared to be very worn. Below is a comparison of the new and old ones:
    Four carbon motor brushes for a washing machine, two new and two worn, on a white background
    We managed to order 1:1 matching replacements, with the same shear angle as the original. We paid £20 two pieces. In addition, I still cleaned the inside of the dust, although I didn't lapped the brushes themselves as I thought they fitted well. I only checked after assembly to make sure they weren't sparking excessively, and let it spin a few times with an empty drum.
    Comparison of old and new carbon brushes for a washing machine motor
    You can still see how the brush works - there is a spring in the middle, this is what presses it down:




    In summary, the repair was done very late. The washing machine was no longer moving at all, and the unaware owner did not know that the mysterious black dust accumulating under the washing machine was the result of the brushes rubbing off. The brushes were replaced and the washing machine was cleaned, although I did not lapped the brushes themselves. The whole thing has now been running for a month without complaint. Do you also carry out this type of simple repair?

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    About Author
    p.kaczmarek2
    Moderator Smart Home
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    p.kaczmarek2 wrote 13420 posts with rating 11260, helped 617 times. Been with us since 2014 year.
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  • #2 21756724
    Erbit
    Level 39  
    p.kaczmarek2 wrote:
    Do you also make these types of simple repairs?


    I repair all domestic appliances at home as long as they can be repaired at home (and they usually can). I have replaced bearings in washing machines, programmers, replaced water pumps, recently replaced the jacket in a washing machine with a top cartridge, dishwasher door springs, hoover motor and many, many others and even saved a microwave from being replaced at a cost of 7.50zł. - literally such a cost.

    The professional invited by the "offended Wife" failed to repair the faulty microwave (although he tried) and in the end stated that it had to be replaced. The next day he arrived with a new one but bad luck that it didn't fit the built-in so he took it away. When Wife went to work I took the microwave apart and found a faulty fuse for the high voltage circuit. The microwave was working 'normally' just not heating so I suspected a faulty magnetron. I realised that fuses don't blow by themselves. So I bought some and began to wonder about the cause. After the first fuse replacement, the microwave heated for a while and then the fuse blew - so I started looking at the interior and the first thing that stuck out to me was the dust on the high voltage circuit. This, combined with moisture (and remember it's a high voltage circuit) could have been the cause of the puncture and subsequent tripping of the fuse. I cleaned the board well and everything possible. I fitted another fuse and.... the microwave has been working for almost another year ;) I showed my wife the receipt for 7,50zł and when asked "what's that" I replied "the cost of repairing the microwave". She was further offended and probably even more so ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
  • #3 21756746
    szeryf3
    Level 29  
    @Erbit maybe the spouse was dreaming of a new microwave.
    @p.kaczmarek2 young people nowadays are unlikely to repair household appliances.
    If something is broken they tend to buy new ones.
    That's the way the world is set up now.
    And brushes are not a big cost, but counting for the service it already comes out a few nice pennies.
  • #4 21756783
    James596
    Level 28  
    I am in favour of using equipment for as long as possible if there is no need for replacement, but sometimes there are factors that argue for replacement rather than repair:

    1. It is worth considering the point of repairing very old, highly energy-intensive appliances if there are modern equivalents that consume fewer resources.

    2. Sometimes it's also good to consider the psychological aspect that we DIYers don't usually understand - some women like the 'breath of fresh air' in the form of a new appliance, rather than resuscitating an old, usually no longer aesthetically pleasing corpse. ;)
  • #5 21756818
    Damian_Max
    Level 20  
    I also carry out home repairs, not only of white goods/RTVs (of which I have a mediocre understanding); but others too.
    In general, based on a number of years of such practice; I have the impression that at least a third (or maybe half) of the causes of equipment replacement are mechanical failures. Often, a makeshift solution (such as tape, hot glue/drip) can double the life.
    Jokingly, we can say that the probability of a device becoming immobile / breaking down is the resultant of the fastest failure of any component.
    All it takes is a stupid breakage of something / fabrication / crushing and all the internally working electronics end up in the rubbish.
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  • #6 21756850
    cranky
    Level 29  
    I am just now replacing the brushes on my Bosch. When I normally replace brushes in machines (not white goods) - I also replace the bearings, because the life span is sometimes similar. But I see that the design of, for example, a motor from a Bosch washing machine encourages me not to move the bearings.
    So I have a question on the subject for colleagues - when the brushes in white goods "run out", what do you do?
    1 Change the brushes
    2 Change the bearings
    3 Clean the commutator with carbon (cloth type)
    4 You align and clean the commutator (from sandpaper to lathe)
  • #7 21757012
    kombo
    Level 14  
    After such an end to the life of the brushes, the commutator would need to be inspected for pitting formed by the arc created when the brushes are not pressed down accurately.
    As mentioned, the commutator would also need to be cleaned, and in the case of pitting, turned on the lathe.
  • #8 21757117
    Erbit
    Level 39  
    szeryf3 wrote:
    @Erbit maybe the spouse was dreaming of a new microwave.

    Yes, I was taking that into consideration ;) <br/span>;) ;) ;)

    szeryf3 wrote:
    young people nowadays are unlikely to repair household appliances.

    Hardly - increasingly, appliances of this class are those that have no service at all and the warranty conditions are met by replacing them with new equipment. Simply put, the cost of maintaining service facilities and all the service logistics is more expensive than replacing with new equipment. This is particularly evident in small domestic appliances - mixers etc.
  • #9 21757349
    cranky
    Level 29  
    At my place, the Bosh has eaten so much after 11 years:
    Worn carbon brush with copper wire and spring from a Bosch washing machine
    By the way - because replacing the "shock absorbers" requires taking the drum apart, and it works only with thorns - I have made such a small modification - which allows the "shock absorbers" to be readjusted every two years in 5 minutes.
    Washing machine damper with corrosion and a hose clamp on the rod

    By the way: rotors of such a Zelmer 20 years ago had the spaces between the commutator plates flooded with resin. Now there is nothing between them. I do not recommend trying to align this on a lathe. The copper drags around.
  • #10 21757365
    kombo
    Level 14  
    If you are machining soft metals such as aluminium copper you need to use a knife with a suitable blade profile, preferably polished, then nothing will drag.
    Of course c2h5oh cooling.
  • #11 21757396
    klamocik
    Level 36  
    A long time ago on this forum I asked the question why the brushes are seated obliquely despite the engine running both ways, will someone explain???.
  • #12 21757602
    cranky
    Level 29  
    I have retreaded 2 rotors of identical hoovers - the pull of the commutator plates did not depend on the blade. Difference in vintage and the resin mentioned.

    klamocik wrote:
    Long ago on this forum I asked the question why the brushes are seated obliquely despite the motor running both ways, will someone explain???.

    The motor does not run in 2 directions. It mixes the laundry in 2 directions. It only spins in one, and the slip is then greater.
  • #13 21757635
    E8600
    Level 41  
    As for the brushes in the washing machine, I have encountered on the forum that in a certain make/model only the original brushes are used, putting on a replacement ends up damaging the motor (different brush material/resistance).
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  • #14 21757638
    kris8888
    Level 40  
    klamocik wrote:
    Long ago on this forum I asked the question why the brushes are seated obliquely despite the engine running both ways, will someone explain??.

    Probably only relevant at high spinning speeds, which are always one way. To minimise sparking. On the other hand, at normal spins the washing could be seated perpendicularly, and this oblique fixing probably doesn't bother too much at slow spins either.
    James596 wrote:
    2. Sometimes it's also good to consider the psychological aspect, which we DIYers don't usually understand - some women like the "breath of fresh air" in the form of a new appliance, rather than resuscitating an old, usually no longer aesthetically pleasing corpse.

    This is indeed an important aspect...My wife was very pleased when our washing machine, after 20 years of use and several of my successful repairs, finally "decided" to break down the drum axle mount.
  • #15 21758392
    jarewa
    Level 34  
    szeryf3 wrote:
    @p.kaczmarek2 young people nowadays rather not repair household appliances.
    If something is broken they rather buy new ones.
    That's the way the world is set up now.


    Literally, they won't even clean the filters, a friend of mine dumped a 2 year old dryer on a heat pump in the PSZOK just because the young owner didn't want to clean the filters. But I got upset at the time.
  • #16 21758585
    Erbit
    Level 39  
    James596 wrote:
    I am in favour of using equipment for as long as possible if there is no need for replacement, but ...


    I, without your "but", use as long as I can. Of course, there are limits I can't define and I do replace equipment but as a rule of thumb - I repair and that is the priority. my 12-year-old son got into it and has a lot of fun with it so now with every repair I "look forward to it". As a result, he has probably already replaced everything on the bike he bought for his birthday (only the frame and wheel rims are left of the "old" bike), including fitting himself with hydraulic brakes (I didn't even know they existed). Generally speaking, the last repairs to the household appliances at home are done by him - I just monitor the process and help out if something goes wrong.

    "I'm just afraid" that one day while my parents are away he will decide to fix something himself and we won't know the house when we return ;)
  • #17 21758734
    kris8888
    Level 40  
    Erbit wrote:
    Effect of this is, for example, that in the bike he bought for his birthday he has probably already replaced everything himself (from the "old" bike only the frame and wheel rims are left), including the fact that he put on the hydraulic brakes himself (I didn't even know they existed)

    The question is whether he replaced all that good stuff with supposedly better stuff or because it broke for him😀
    Either way it's good that he's up for the job because nowadays kids are good at clicking but not so good at picking up a spanner or screwdriver....
    Erbit wrote:
    I'm just "afraid" that one day, while his parents are away, he will decide to fix something by himself and we won't know the house after he returns

    That's what I did when I was young. More than once I'd turn up some radio or TV in my parents' absence because it fascinated me, how it worked and how it was constructed. I don't know if they would have been happy with it if they knew....
    Even once, in my father's absence, I decided to "fix" the car by adjusting the valve clearances and ignition advance angle. Unfortunately, I adjusted it in such a way that it was impossible to drive up a hill in any gear other than 1st gear, because there was no power and the valves rattled terribly. I admitted it and for the first time my father was angry with me for doing something without his knowledge...
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  • #18 21758862
    Erbit
    Level 39  
    kris8888 wrote:
    The question of whether he traded all that good for supposedly better

    Even if he exchanged the good for the "supposedly better" I would allow him to do so - whereas in the case of the brakes they really are better.
  • #19 21759748
    cranky
    Level 29  
    Erbit wrote:
    in the bike he bought for his birthday he has probably already replaced everything himself

    I remember the days when it paid to buy all the parts and assemble the bike from that. Now 20-30% of the parts are the price of a whole complete bike in a shop.
  • #20 21759798
    tuta158
    Level 10  
    I have had a top-loading washing machine for about 10 years, washing 2 or 3 times a week done. The only thing it has shown me a couple of times is a heater error at high temperatures. The only thing that is threatening it at the moment is the areas of corrosion spotting appearing on the top flap. From my observations, for the most part, the current white goods are relatively solidly made. Above all, it is important to take care of the filters so that they do not become clogged. However, I also know of cases where fairly new appliances were thrown away in cases of minor faults, where they could be repaired at a relatively low cost of around PLN 100. This was especially true of TV sets.
  • #21 21759916
    Erbit
    Level 39  
    tuta158 wrote:
    Although I also know of cases where, at my friends' houses, fairly fresh equipment was discarded for minor faults where it could be repaired at a relatively low cost


    I know of another case. Some "market" brought a friend a washing machine with a connection service because the old one had broken down. They had already brought the old washing machine out and taken it away, the new one was brought in and connected. Unfortunately, the washing machine "didn't want to work" so the men took apart the socket and found a burnt wire there. They plugged it in and the new washing machine started ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

    Authentic !
  • #22 21759954
    kris8888
    Level 40  
    Erbit wrote:
    Some "market" has brought your colleague a washing machine

    And you could have helped your friend and saved her from the pointless expense of a new washing machine.... :-)
  • #23 21760051
    Erbit
    Level 39  
    kris8888 wrote:
    Erbit wrote:
    Some "market" brought your friend a washing machine

    And you could have helped your friend and saved her from the pointless expense of a new washing machine.... :-)


    I could have if she had asked me to do it beforehand but she was "Susan" and that was all I could do ;)
  • #24 21764781
    rach_UMK
    Level 32  
    The cousin's microwave died first, the next day the vacuum cleaner.... thought of me and brought the "burrs" to me. Of course they managed to fix it, cost zero zloty. Of course, they also did not know that the hoover has a filter on the back, soon it was already "concreted", although the main cause of failure was the cable at the plug. Well, they were also bad :)

    A friend gave me a cordless hoover to repair and gave up because the cost of materials was too high. I felt sorry to throw it away because the motor seemed like a firecracker. I repaired it, even though it's cheaper to buy something similar from a shop. But as a hobbyist, no one will take away the fun of tinkering :)
  • #25 21768286
    _________
    User under supervision
    Just one thing makes me laugh. On the allotment (and it's a phase there in the summer) I have a Russian Viatka by my mum and my mum had one by my grandmother. I checked the vintage. It is 03.1987
    The heaters were not done by anyone, the brushes were not replaced and it heats, washes, spins. If I ever repair my current Bosch again, I will strongly consider restoring that one then.
  • #26 21768297
    kris8888
    Level 40  
    _________ wrote:
    brushes were not replaced

    Because there were no brushes there, so there was nothing to replace....
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