Smart installations: EIB, Dupline, Tebis – other systems and experiences

Question

A warm welcome to you all! I’d like to start a discussion on smart installations from the perspective of a practitioner or an investor, though mainly the former. I’ve found three such systems online – EIB, Dupline and Tebis. First question – are there any other smart installation systems,...

Dariusz Goliński · Answer

I’ve been interested in this for a few years now.
I’m currently in the process of building my own house (it’s taking ages – two years just for the foundations), but I’ve already thought everything through.
I’ll be duplicating a large part of the wiring – how shall I put it? – or rather, I’ll make it so that, for example, the lighting can be controlled from a single location. Then I’ll use one of the cards described here with an RS interface and send or receive information via it.
I’ve already come up with the protocol too.
As for other projects, there’s also X10, and I’ve got the website address of two people (hobbyists) who are building such systems from scratch.
Cheers.
Here’s one of the links I found.
http://idom.wizzard.one.pl/

praktyk19 · Answer

Hello, and thank you for your informative reply
I visited the website you linked to. My thoughts are that it’s undoubtedly an interesting and worthwhile site. However, making use of the information available there and doing what is suggested ‘there’ isn’t something everyone can do. You need to have knowledge and practical experience in electronics, IT and English. And if someone, as they say, isn’t ‘on first-name terms’ with these ‘fields’, then unfortunately they’re unlikely to find it very useful. I’d also like to add that it seems to me that, for ‘this’ to work, you’d need a computer to control and monitor ‘it’ all the time (?). If that were the case, you’d have to factor into ‘this’ the cost of buying a computer, a second-hand and basic (slow, …) one, as well as the electricity bill that this computer would incur. As I’ve pointed out, these are just my assumptions; they may not necessarily be accurate or true.
As for the X10 system, I’ll have a look into it, but having read a few pages, to be honest, I’m not particularly impressed. I must admit at this point that I haven’t really familiarised myself sufficiently with this issue and I may still change my mind.
As far as I know, EIB, Dupline and Tebis all have a single central controller – a microcontroller, microcomputer, or whatever the technical term is – along with switches, circuit breakers and sensors. This central unit is programmed, at least in the EIB system, once using a computer – or, more precisely, a ready-made computer programme. The same applies to the switches, sensors, etc.
The Dupline system is said to be significantly cheaper than EIB “both in terms of components and running costs, as it uses simpler technological solutions”. In addition, free software is to be provided.
In the Tebis system, on the other hand, neither software nor a computer, nor even training, is reportedly required.
That’s more or less what I’m getting at – buying ready-made components and simply fitting them, connecting them, wiring them up and, if necessary, ‘programming’ them using a ready-made programme, all at a reasonably affordable price.
Best regards

grudziu · Answer

I am a student of automation and have recently become interested in building automation.
My comments
I.
1) The most popular systems are the European EIB and the American LonWorks
2) Less popular: the German X10 (reportedly compatible with EIB); there are also networks such as Profibus, CAN, Modbus and LCN
3) Closed systems (i.e. produced by a single manufacturer without the option of purchasing components from other manufacturers) are solutions offered by companies such as Theben, Doepke, Hager, OBO and Honeywell
4) A cheap (probably the cheapest) and, all things considered, rather primitive solution: Luxor
II.
1) EIB has no central controller; it is a distributed (decentralised) system – I suspect the others you mentioned are as well. Such a system comprises: controllers responsible for specific functions (e.g. a controller for blinds, lights), actuators and sensors
2) Compared to EIB, I reckon every other system is cheaper; I had access to the price list for a while, and the prices were staggering (for 120m², controlling the lighting, blinds and heating came to over 30,000 zł; whereas with Luxor it would be around 12,000 PLN)
3) In the long term, it’s worth installing such a system because it saves (in the best-case scenarios) up to 40 per cent on electricity, and of course you can save on heating too (there’ll be no such thing as unnecessary heating)
4) The EIB is programmed in ETS; you need an EIB module with an RS232 port, which you connect to your computer, create the project in ETS and upload the data. You can reprogram it as many times as you like

Apologies for digging this topic up again, but I’m thinking of setting up a forum on smart buildings and would like to find out if there’s much interest in the subject.

Best regards

Marek Rozenblut · Answer

Hello. If I’ve understood correctly, you’d like a home based on ‘smart control’, but it would be good to have ready-made systems to which you can connect the lighting, central heating, blinds, sprinklers, an alarm clock… Moeller offers ready-made modules for purchase, featuring control, communication and visualisation – the ‘easy’ and ‘MFD’ ranges. If you’re interested, please do let me know. Best regards.

pllmisp · Answer

HelloThis is an interesting topic that’s becoming increasingly popular.The last three issues of *Elektronika Praktyczna* have covered this topic and featured a project to build. In the latest issue, the ‘Letters’ section includes some comments from practitioners in this field. It may not be much, but it’s worth taking a look at.Best regards

praktyk19 · Answer

until December, though not only

It’s certainly an interesting topic, very topical, and therefore worth looking into. Nevertheless, as you’ve had the chance to see for yourself here on the forum, let’s just say that interest in it isn’t exactly huge, unfortunately

On a slightly different note, there are plenty of solutions of this kind. In this thread, I wanted to focus on those solutions where, so to speak, you buy ready-made components and then programme them as required. And all this for a reasonable, i.e. reasonably affordable, price.
I’ve found the following: EIB, CAN, RS485, I2C, Powernet, ASI, Meterbus, LON, Wago, Beckhoff, GLT, 1-Wire, RS 422, Dupline, Tebis. Of course, I’ve listed all the ones I’ve come across, not just the ones I’m specifically referring to – the ones that can be assembled and programmed by oneself. To the list I’ve provided, it would also be worth adding – as my colleague Marek Rozenblut quite rightly pointed out – programmable relays such as Logo, Easy, … or freely programmable relays such as Simatic S7, Twido, … although there is actually a separate thread on this subject that I started myself

I think you can give EIB a miss due to its price. As for Tebis and Dupline, unfortunately they aren’t that much cheaper than EIB from what I’ve managed to find out, so they don’t really count as alternative solutions either, so…so you can give them a miss too.
The question is, what’s left? It looks like mainly either programmable relays such as Logo, Easy, etc., for less demanding users with smaller flats or smaller budgets

or freely programmable relays such as S7, Twido, etc. – and there’s already a separate thread on this, to which I’d of course warmly invite you

to pllmisp
If perhaps you could somehow scan or at least summarise what you’re referring to – the last three issues of *Elektronika Praktyczna* which discuss ‘smart installations’ and present a project of some sort… I think I wouldn’t be the only one interested in this and grateful for it.

Mariucha · Answer

Are you interested in this from a practical or just a theoretical point of view?
Because in theory it’s all well and good, but when you bring it down to earth, it turns out it isn’t particularly necessary. At least in small houses. Let’s start from the beginning: what are we going to control? Lighting and blinds? Or perhaps someone might splash out on air conditioning as well. A ‘Smart Building’ would make sense if it also included electric control of all doors and gates, ventilation with heat recovery, one or two heating systems, access control, alarm and fire protection systems, and so on and so forth.
I’ve been implementing ‘smart installations’ – in our everyday, low-cost, Polish sense of the term – for several years now, in a much simpler, quicker and cheaper way. All you need is a substantial amount of cabling run throughout the house: a separate wire to every switch and every appliance (not necessarily a separate cable). And in the main distribution board, a timer, a daily or weekly programmer, a few relays, and sometimes a programmable relay (LOGO), depending on the client’s preferences. And that’s all it takes to do whatever they want.
As for truly ‘Smart Buildings’, I’ll leave those to the designers and contractors of large, expensive office blocks.
That’s my view. You might boycott me, but for now I’ll stick to it!
Best regards

grudziu · Answer

To praktyk19:Firstly, do you perhaps have any price lists? I only have a rough, out-of-date EIB one, and solutions such as Dupeline (from what I’ve found elsewhere) seem to be much cheaper than EIB. If you’ve got any price lists, perhaps you could share them at coxcoxcox(_at_)wp.pl? :]Secondly: I wouldn’t rule out EIB, as it’s the most popular and widely used system (which doesn’t mean I’d install that one in my own home, mind you ;] ). Admittedly, the price is staggering, but wealthy people usually install this very system. Thirdly: you listed these companies: “EIB, CAN, RS485, I2C, Powernet, ASI, Meterbus, LON, Wago, Beckhoff, GLT, 1-Wire, RS 422, Dupline, Tebis” What on earth are RS485 and RS422? They just sound like serial interfaces ;] and I’ve never heard of most of the ones you’ve listed Fourthly, I’d also like to join in the request for details on what the latest issues of EP were about Finally: it’s a shame there’s so little interest in this on Elektroda, as I’d love to learn something new and share what I already know :/ Regards Added after 12 [minutes]: To Mariuch: Are you interested in this from a practical or just a theoretical point of view? I’m interested in both ;] Because it’s all well and good in theory, but when you bring it down to earth, it turns out it isn’t particularly necessary. At least in small houses. Because let’s start from the beginning: what are we going to control? Lighting and blinds? That too, but above all the heating. Controlling the heating and lighting in a building isn’t a bad idea, as the cost of an EIB installation can pay for itself after a few years, and with other companies much sooner because they cost less. I saw somewhere that EIB pays for itself after about 7–8 years (with up to 40% savings on heating and electricity). And in large buildings, it can actually pay for itself within a single year!!! A Smart Building would make sense if it also included electric control of all doors and gates, ventilation with heat recovery, one or two heating systems, access control, alarm and fire protection systems, etc., etc. Of course, the list could go on forever ;] and I think it’s possible with EIB All you need is a substantial amount of cabling run throughout the house: a separate wire (not necessarily a separate cable) to every switch and every load. And in the main distribution board, a timer, a daily or weekly programmer, a few relays, and sometimes a programmable relay (LOGO), depending on the customer’s preferences. And then you can do whatever they want. But such a system is difficult to expand. Of course, other systems can perform the same functions as EIB; however, if you have substantial ‘back-end’ resources, I suspect that the modules available for the EIB or LonWorks bus are more capable and make the process easier. As for truly ‘Smart Buildings’, I’ll leave those to the designers and contractors of large, expensive office blocks. :] I’d love to be one of those designers That’s my opinion. You might boycott me, but for now I’m sticking to it!Best regards Regards

praktyk19 · Answer

Until DecemberI don’t have any price lists for the reasons I mentioned earlier – they’re too expensive. I haven’t even tried comparing the prices of EIB and Dupline – both systems are too expensive. Below are a few links (unfortunately?) mainly in German. After looking through these (all) links, you’ll certainly know a bit more and, quite seriously, you’ll find all the solutions there – I emphasise solutions (not companies! – which I mentioned in my post. One of the links also includes the Dupline price list. – a link to a (German) discussion group, specifically a thread on how to set up a smart home system yourself in a cost-effective (cheap) way. – another solution (system!) for a smart home system – available in English or German – a few prices (mini price list) – link to download catalogues Apparently, there are more and more wealthy people here (in Poland) who can afford an EIB. After all, we have freedom and capitalism. Some don’t know what to do with their money, others are sleeping under bridges, whilst the vast majority are struggling to make ends meet from month to month. Well, that’s not quite on topic, though… I also can’t quite agree with the view that an EIB installation will pay for itself within a few years. Admittedly, I’ve never done one myself and probably never will, but it seems impossible to me. Over a dozen or so years, perhaps, but not just a few. Savings are savings, but costs are costs Unlike some people, I’d like to install a smart system at home – and perhaps for others too – that the average person can afford, rather than an EIB system for... To MariuchWell, in a way I agree with my colleague, in that there are various ways to achieve the goal but using the components my colleague mentioned, in my opinion of course, it will be rather difficult or even impossible to create a system worthy of being called ‘smart’ or comparable to, say, EIB. It would be a different matter if, instead of the Logo relay, we used another relay – a top-of-the-range one, so to speak, such as the Easy 8xx series, or better still a PLC. Although slightly more expensive, the capabilities they offer compared to, say, the Logo are simply incomparable. By using precisely such a solution, we’ll be able to create a reasonably smart system at a reasonably affordable/sensible price, which could actually pay for itself in a very short time – in my opinion, of course.

grudziu · Answer

Thanks for the links!EIB pays for itself on average within a few years – I know this from a reliable source.I understand you’re planning to set up the system with a single main controller?

praktyk19 · Answer

I hope you’ve had a look at the links and perhaps found them useful to some extent

Somehow I can’t quite believe that the EIB pays for itself within a few years. And exactly how many years is that – 2–4, or perhaps 8–10? If I remember correctly, I (myself) came across the statement that the EIB might start to pay for itself (only) after 7 or 8 years .
If we were to assume the simplest, cheapest and most modest installation that could possibly be fitted, plus at least two children or a period of around 10 hours when no one is at home under the same (all) conditions (temperature, ...), I’d be prepared to believe that perhaps, after those 7–8 years , it might slowly start to pay for itself.
I’ve given some rather extreme conditions, but only under such conditions, in my opinion, might it actually start to pay for itself after a few (7–8) years .
As I wrote, savings are savings, and price is price. You yourself provided example price lists ranging from 12,000 (Luxor) to 30,000 PLN (EIB). I assume these are just price lists for materials (actuators, sensors, etc.). I reckon that for 3,000 PLN (giving a bit of a margin), you’d have all the necessary sensors, switches, … plus a larger quantity (length) of cables and a central controller – in other words, (almost) everything you need to create a system not dissimilar to EIB, comprehensive and energy-efficient. In this case, EIB wouldn’t be able to save much more – if any at all – in terms of energy (electricity, heat).
Now compare the prices: 3,000; 12,000; 30,000, because the difference in energy consumption is either negligible or non-existent, and draw your own conclusions

This gives you the answer as to why I’m “planning to install a system with a single main controller”. I’m approaching this from an investor’s perspective – I intend to set something like this up in my own home, not just in theory. Other options are not only more expensive but are actually beyond my means.
Which, again, doesn’t mean that smart systems such as EIB, Dupline, etc., have ceased to interest me entirely. It’s just that I’ve had little time recently to fine-tune ‘my project’, and partly because of this, I haven’t even made a final decision yet on whether to use a programmable relay or a freely programmable controller. And I certainly don’t have time to look for interesting information specifically about EIB, … Nevertheless, I’d be happy to read about them if anyone would like to share their knowledge on the subject.

Best regards
P.S. I’ve deliberately used phrases such as ‘might’, ‘will start to’ and ‘pay off’ because these are actually possible, as opposed to stating that it will (already!) pay off, which is a misunderstanding in my view.

pllmisp · Answer

Hello At the request of my friend “praktyk19”, I am posting a scan of the articlesBest regards

praktyk19 · Answer

Firstly, many thanks for the scan. For those familiar with electronics and microcontrollers, and for those who enjoy learning, this solution is certainly interesting and highly recommended.
Secondly, whilst providing links to various websites and resources, I also included one to a German forum where there was a discussion about building a smart system based on microcontrollers; however, as far as I recall, the discussion there centred on AVR microcontrollers and the CAN Bus protocol/network – if I’m wrong, please correct me (and don’t nitpick

Best regards

praktyk19 · Answer

I just wanted to add that I consider building your own smart home system based on microcontrollers to be the number one option compared to, for example, EIB, for two reasons – cost and design/capabilities. Unfortunately, however, as I mentioned, this option is mainly suitable for people who are at least reasonably familiar with electronics and, ideally, with electronics and microcontrollers to the same extent – at least reasonably so.
The question is simply whether, in reality, a switch, for example, actually needs to be ‘smart’?
As option number 2, I envisage creating a smart system based either on programmable relays – preferably top-of-the-range ones – or slightly more expensive PLCs. The main advantage of this solution is the price; although it is undoubtedly more expensive than a microcontroller-based system, it is much cheaper than what I’ll call ‘EIB systems’.
Does anyone have any suggestions regarding option no. 3?

Or do you disagree with what I’ve written?

Best regards

morgensen · Answer

Hi everyone. I think the idea of setting up a forum on smart buildings is a very good one. It’s a forward-looking topic because the market needs experts in this field:)

praktyk19 · Answer

HelloMainly, though not exclusively, to kol morgensenThe topic is certainly interesting and forward-looking, at least in my opinion, and in that respect I agree with you. However, I don’t really agree with the idea of setting up a new forum or a new thread. As my colleague has probably noticed, this topic hasn’t generated much interest here on the Elektroda forum. Recently, as I’ve mentioned myself, I unfortunately haven’t had much time to look for materials, information or other forums… relating to smart installations. From my searches about two years ago and more recently – mainly towards the end of last year – it’s difficult to find any specific information on the details on the Polish internet. It’s relatively easy to find a company that would install a smart system, but it’s hard to find detailed price lists – as has even been mentioned in this thread – detailed information on the basis of which one could install such a system oneself, let alone forums where people who install such systems, or at least own them, would actively participate. Unless the prices of these systems come down significantly – very significantly – it seems to me that their future will look much the same as it has done so far: there will be a handful of those who are financially fortunate enough to commission a handful of those who install them, who already know the ropes. As for the proverbial Mr Kowalski, he won’t be able to afford such a system, whilst another Mr Kowalski, Kowalski the electrician, won’t be able to find any information on the subject, nor will he have the opportunity to have such a system installed by someone else, even if he does find the information, even if he completes a course and is capable of installing such a system himself. Perhaps I’ve painted a rather bleak picture, but am I not at least a little bit right?Best regards

znachor2 · Answer

Hello, colleagues.I agree with my colleague; there are few solutions in this field, or rather, few people use them. The main problem is that programmable controllers are expensive, and the software isn’t exactly cheap either.I’m an automation engineer and 99 per cent of my experience is with SIEMENS; as far as I know, prices for the S-7 have fallen.In my view, when selecting a system, you need to ask yourself: ‘What will the input and output signals be?’It’s not a big problem if they’re only digital signals (0/1), but what if we want to connect an analogue signal? None of the cheaper controllers have the capability to process such a signal. And what about controlling and monitoring ongoing operations? After all, we’re not going to be going down to the basement to stare at a tiny display on the controller.We’d need either an operator panel or a PC connected to the system via a network (e.g. Profi-BUS). Of course, each has its pros and cons, but that’s down to the investor’s individual circumstances – after all, not everyone’s rolling in money.

Garcia24 · Answer

Hello, of course everyone knows that HAGER’s ‘smart home’ components are far superior to the Moeller system.Best regards.

praktyk19 · Answer

HelloI agree with znachor2 when it comes to the financial side of things – programmable relays aren’t cheap, and PLCs are even more expensive than them. If, on top of that, you wanted to add any sort of visualisation panel – which is highly recommended – the price of such an installation (with these ‘extras’) would be at least two or three times higher than a standard one. Unfortunately, we live in rather strange times: whilst technology has advanced significantly, it is practically non-existent in the vast majority of domestic electrical installations. Most people either simply cannot afford it in this case, or those who could perhaps afford it take a very cost-conscious approach – that is, they’ll hire an installer or a company that will carry out such an installation for the lowest price. Well… that’s life As for the analogue signals themselves, practically every programmable relay has at least one such input. There are some which, if I’m not mistaken, have as many as four such inputs in the central module. You can also buy and add additional expansion modules with analogue inputs to almost any module, so it’s not really that much of a problem. Analogue technology itself is very expensive, and in most cases everyone tries to use it as little as possible. And to Garcia24 – I think it’s certainly not common knowledge that, and I quote, ‘HAGER’s “smart home” components are far superior to the Moeller system’. Since you’re so sure of this and aware of it, perhaps you could back it up with some concrete evidence – price lists, links, etc. – as someone might find it useful.Best regards

KAPAS · Answer

HelloI haven’t posted on this thread for a while, but I’ve read about visualisation panels here and I’d like to say that they don’t always have to be expensive.At the moment, I’m working on a panel measuring roughly 10 by 15 cm. In the basic version (text display + 8 transistor outputs), the price will be between 400 and 500 zł. In the version with a touchscreen, it will be around 600 to 700 zł – I don’t think that’s very much.

warbipower · Answer

HelloI have a question regarding EIB installations. Namely, there are training courses being organised, costing around 1,700 zł, on designing EIB systems. Upon completion of such a course, you receive a certificate. I understand that this course qualifies me to design and install EIB systems myself?But to install such a system, you need to have an electrical installation plan (distribution board, connection point, meter connection), which you cannot design yourself because the course mentioned above does not authorise you to do so. Am I right?

grudziu · Answer

In my opinion, you’re right

mcarpenter · Answer

The idea is to use the alarm’s motion sensors to control a relay with a delay function. The alarm should, of course, continue to operate as before. Upon entering the room and switching on the light, the delay function keeps the light on for, say, 5 minutes. If the sensor does not detect any movement, the delay function runs for 5 minutes from the last detection and then deactivates the relay. The light switches off even though the wall switch is on. When motion is detected again, it switches on for 5 minutes. When the light is on and motion is detected, the duration is extended by a further five minutes from the moment of detection. This is a sort of substitute for expensive smart home solutions. Does anyone know which relay or circuit could be used for this? Would this sort of idea work in practice?

Added after 1 [hours] 11 [minutes]:

I’ve already found relays for this type of application. However, I have a question – how can they be controlled by an alarm sensor? Does the alarm system generate a 24 V voltage?
Here is a link to the manufacturer: http://www.fif.com.pl/index.php?cPath=53

peyox · Answer

I’ve been reading up on this and having a look around. I’ll add my two cents.
I’m currently waiting for my own flat (70 square metres, two storeys), which is under construction. In a few months’ time, the electrical wiring will be installed (by the developer). Before the plasterwork goes on, I’ll be wiring the whole flat with twisted-pair cable (Ethernet). While I’m at it, I also intend to set up at least a basic ‘smart’ home system myself.

I’m considering the following components:
- radiator control (replacing traditional thermostatic heads with electrically controlled ones)
- lighting control in all rooms (a total of approx. 10–15 light sources)
- window open sensors (to automate heating control)
- temperature sensors (indoor and outdoor)
- motion sensors (to switch off unnecessary lighting)

Key objectives:
- savings on heating
- savings on electricity (lighting)
- convenience of lighting control

In my own installation, I’m deliberately omitting control of the wall sockets. I have some concerns about how the system will perform over the years, and I wouldn’t want to find myself without power in the sockets one day simply because some minor circuit has burnt out. You can still live without light

On a different note, thinking about the future, if I ever decided to sell the flat, who would take care of such a system? Only I will know how ‘it’ works. So I’m planning a relatively simple design that can be easily analysed and repaired if necessary.

My design plans:
- to gather all the power cables for the light sources in a single small cupboard
- low-voltage (e.g. 12V) wires to the light switches (twisted pair cable; I’ll have plenty to spare – as many as 8 wires)
- standard relays (12V) fitted inside the cabinet (costing a dozen or so zlotys each)
- electric thermostatic heads – each with its own cable to the cabinet (12–24V)
- temperature sensors (1-wire)
- a programmable 1-wire controller for managing the radiators (I found a ready-made system online)
- 1-wire-controlled relays for switching the radiators on and off
- window-opening sensors (1-wire)

As you can see, there’s no lighting controller in this setup. To start with, it’ll be ‘almost’ a standard installation, operating in a very traditional way. But there’s already plenty of scope for future expansion (I’m leaving that for later). I’ll have everything in a single cabinet. In time, I’ll add a 1-wire controller (which is relatively cheap) so I can control the lighting as I please (via a computer, the internet, etc.).

As I mentioned, this is just a rough approximation of a proper system, but I think it will serve as a good basis for experimentation and further development.

I believe that the simpler the installation, the better. Complicated systems, such as EIB, require costly maintenance in the event of a fault. Here, we have a bundle of cables, each with its own simple task, and how we use them is entirely up to us.

Best regards, and I look forward to your comments.

grudziu · Answer

All I can say is: I’m sure you’ve got the idea right; it works brilliantly in practice.Regards

bakkrzysztof · Answer

Hello everyone,I’d like to tell you all briefly about the installation I’ve carried out in my home. I’ve been working in IT for over 10 years, and my exposure to new technologies meant that when I was renovating my house, I decided to carry out the electrical installation in such a way that the house would be a ‘SMART’ building. I asked a few friends if they knew anyone who carried out such installations. No one had any experience in this area. Fortunately, I found a few companies online specialising in EIB installations.My joy didn’t last long! After receiving the quotes, it turned out that to have the system installed to my specifications, I’d have to spend around 130,000–150,000 zł. AAA, and on top of that, the electrical installation – the cables – would cost another 20,000 zł. I couldn’t afford that. Then I thought: ‘MAYBE I’LL GO ON A TRAINING COURSE AND LEARN HOW TO DO IT MYSELF, AND THEN IT’LL BE CHEAPER.’ That’s what I did. I went on the training courses. Once I’d got to grips with the subject, I knew what technologies, manufacturers and prices were available. However, I still couldn’t get the installation cost down to a figure I was happy with. Fortunately, the house renovation took a very long time (the process alone with the heritage conservation officer and the local council took two years).I became increasingly interested in SMART BUILDINGS. I searched for materials, attended meetings at various companies (ABB, SIEMENS, GIRA, etc.) and took part in trade fairs related to electricity and automation in Germany, Belgium and France. I visited two ‘houses of the future’ in Germany, as well as a research institute specialising in this field there. During this time, we obtained all the necessary building permits and I had to start laying the cables. I didn’t know which technology I would use, so I decided to lay them in a versatile way, allowing for plenty of spare cable. What did that mean??? We laid [NOTE] over 3 kilometres of various cables. Bus cable, twisted-pair cable, alarm cable, standard 3x1.5, 3x2.5, 12-pair multi-core cable and several others. We set up three distribution boards and laid several hundred metres of extra conduit with a remote control (just in case). Having laid the cables in a ‘universal’ way, I was able to continue exploring technologies and solutions. After a few months, I decided to hire a PLC controller and certain components of the EIB system. Then, for over a year, I spent time testing various systems and devices. Today, I live with my family in a house that also serves as a research ‘institute’ for a company specialising in the installation of smart home systems. Below is a list of some of the devices and functions that have been integrated:1-phase controlled socket3-phase controlled socketpush button push button (blinds, curtains, others)EIB push button 2-button push-button touchscreen RJ45 (PC + phone) TV Audio TEL lighting groups (circuits) dimmable lighting groups temperature sensor twilight sensor wind sensorpressure sensorprecipitation and humidity sensorsoil salinity sensormotion detectordoor contactwindow contact central heating (water-based)Legionella electric heating matssprinkler (garden, balcony, bathroom)circulation pumpcontrolled water valve mixing valve air conditioning ventilation CCTV camera fire protection system emergency lighting UPS (uninterruptible power supply) backup circuits intercom pets electric lock curtain motorRFIDroller blindspresence simulationawning home cinema screennitrous oxide sensorsmoke detectorgas detector sensor water leak central heating boiler control meter (gas, water, etc.…) heat pump control fingerprint scanner driveway heating gutter heating CCTV recorder GSM module central heating manifold (+actuators) glass breakage sensorI will try to post more information about Smart Buildings on my personal website www.bak.plKind regards,Krzysztof Bąk0-501260260

Mustela73 · Answer

I’m interested in this topic.Unfortunately, I couldn’t find anything related to this topic on Mr Bakkrzysztof’s website, www.bak.pl. Will this website be updated any time soon, or not?Best regards

damianipp · Answer

There are many, many different systems out there, and just as many solutions – and, phew, even more teachers. Everyone praises their own. I recommend www.istpol.pl; you’ll find some information in the building automation section. And if you need anything else, I’d suggest giving us a call.
Systems range from the cheapest, such as Luxor, to Dupline and EIB/KNX, as well as Pharao programmable controllers.

Best regards

elekktronik · Answer

Hello, I’d like to add my two cents.As is usually the case – and I think this applies to all of us – I’m short on time, but I’m currently building a house where I’ll definitely be installing a smart control system; the only question is, which one? Based on my own thoughts and what I’ve read here and elsewhere, I’ve already worked out the basic layout of the system.As I’m an electronics engineer, I’ll be building some of the control modules myself. However, I’d like to highlight two risks that some people tend to overlook: the impact of time – what will happen in a few years’ time or more – and how to take into account the potential for expansion, modification and the maintenance that will be necessary.These are my assumptions – perhaps a bit general – but if anyone takes up the topic, I’ll add more. - The electrical installation should be laid out in such a way as to allow for the operation of both a standard and a smart system (e.g. in the event of a sale, a fault, etc.). This will enable me to make a gradual transition to a smart system, anyone who carries out installations on site knows how long it takes to fit and adapt existing, tried-and-tested systems, let alone my own creation.- All modules operating on the network; network topology – star. -Unified communication modules, connected further to data-acquisition and actuator modules via a standard (my own) data exchange protocol. - I will run 3x2x0.6 or 3x2x0.8 mm cable to every location that might be covered by the installation, and the main busways will be 5x2x0.8 mm In practice, there are only two problems for me, but they are by no means minor:- Actuators, e.g. solenoid valves for water, heating, etc., and the biggest problem: - PC software for communicating with the modules during their programming (to ensure it is user-friendly , and for any visualisation, control or remote communication – Ethernet). And here’s my question: is there anyone on the forum who is interested in this and familiar with, for example, Delphi and port software, such as RS232?Best regards.

Smart installations: EIB, Dupline, Tebis – other systems and experiences

What other smart installation systems exist for general electrical installations, how are they installed/programmed, and are Dupline or Tebis really much cheaper than EIB?

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