Problem with CO, heaters are humming terribly, you can't sleep ....

I have a new CO gas in a one-level apartment, a Ferroli DOMINA C24E combi oven, 4 Henrad Compact C-22 heaters and one bathroom "ladder". Thermostatic heads are mounted on the radiators, but the furnace is controlled by Auraton. The orifices at the radiators are set to 5 (maximum flow), the inlet valves are turned to their maximum.

The problem is that the water in the radiators is humming, and recently there are additional effects such as hissing (as if the pressure was changing), but it only occurs on the radiator in the bathroom. The furnace contains a Grundfos UPS 15-50 pump. The problem is so annoying that you cannot sleep with such noises, so I set the temperature at night so that the stove does not turn on. The problem with noise is practically from the very beginning, but the expert who installed it stated that it was only a matter of deaeration. In connection with the above, I have questions:

1. What pressure (cold water) will be optimal for my installation. Will too much pressure make the radiators "work" louder?

2. If the noise is caused by air in the installation, how to carefully vent it. I will just add that when deaerating, the drained water foams terribly, it looks like it is saturated with CO2. It does not matter whether the pressure is 1 Bar or 1.5 Bar.

3. Will it be necessary to deaerate the pump itself, if so, how to deaerate it? Should the pump be running, if so, in what gear, etc. Now, after unscrewing the plug (the one with a large cut), it will drip a little and that's it. Is it supposed to be like that?

I am asking for an answer, I would like to finally sleep ...

If vents are hissing, you should finally vent the entire system properly, top up the water in the system to a pressure of about 1 bar, bleed the pump, all automatic vents (in automatic ones, by pressing with a thin rod, e.g. a paper clip on a float through the drain hole of the vent, vents on each radiator (there should be valves with a screw on a flat screwdriver or a special triangular wrench.

Release the air from each of these elements until the water flows without air bubbles, repeat the process several times, being careful not to drop the pressure below 0 bar.

The cause of continuous deaeration may still be too high temperature of the water in the system, if it boils (when boiling, water also hisses), then the air in the system also precipitates and the vents must release it again, then the programmed temperature on the controller should be reduced. If the pressure in the installation is around 1 bar, the water will only boil at around 110-120 degrees.
If the system is tight, there are no leaks and the pressure is maintained all the time, the diaphragm tank is functional and the deaerated system should not have such problems.

The humming noise can be caused by the water flowing too quickly through the radiator valves themselves.
In this case, reduce the pump speed.
With five heaters max. turnover is a lot.
Try (if there is a switch on the pump) to reduce the speed to minimum, the noise should disappear.

Thanks for the answer. Yesterday evening I tried to bleed the entire system once more. To this end, I filled the water to 2.5 Bar and drained the water from the air vent at each of the radiators. I stopped when the pressure was about 1.1 Bar. There was no air, only water. The pump was in second gear all the time, shifting it to first gear only causes the stove to run longer, more gas to eat up and the rooms to heat up slower. The noise however stops slightly, but it is really the "minimum minimum".

The water temperature is set to 60 C.

I have a question, should the venting take place with the stove off, or should the pump be vented as well? Should water from the plug drip or leak out under pressure when venting the pump? Yesterday I filled the entire installation with water to about 3.5 Bar, until it started to let the safety valve flow, after unscrewing the plug at the pump, the water dripped a little, but with such dripping, it is difficult to talk about deaerating the pump.

Hello! It is best to vent the radiators with the boiler turned off.

unscrewing the pump cap while it is running is unlikely to bleed it. the water from the pump plug usually only drips and it should be. Vent on the turned off pump and stove, you should also have an air vent in the stove (in the upper part of the stove, near the expansion vessel).
The pump rotation should be in second gear, but do a test if the noise decreases when operating in first gear. And write whether this situation takes place from the beginning of use or it appeared suddenly .....

The problem with skimming in radiators is from the very beginning, last year from January. The installation is new. All. After switching the pump to the first gear, the stove works non-stop and it is cold in the cottage. The humming faded a bit, but that's not how it should be. Deaerating the pump with the stove off has the same effect as with the stove on. A few drops, that's it. In fact, when I turn off the stove, it will also be quiet ... A friend has the same stove, 3 heaters, a pump in the second gear and .... blissful silence.

One more question.
Does the pressure on the boiler increase during operation?
I used to have a case, amazing sews, gurgling etc.
It turned out that the air from the expansion vessel in the boiler has gone out.
Check what pressure is on the cold and hot system.
There shouldn't be big differences.

Hello,

The pressure on the cold boiler is 1 bar, during operation it rises to 1.6-1.8 bar. The strangest symptoms are on the radiator in the bathroom, there is no hissing noise anymore. The symptom is as if high water pressure was passed through a thin tube. Effects as in STARWARS. I also took a photo of the entire stove. Then on the right, what is it? It has a nut at the bottom.

I checked a moment ago and it is like this: after heating the water, the pressure increased to 1.6 bar with the stove on and the pump in the second gear, after turning off the stove, it drops to 1.3 bar. In the third pump gear, the pressure increases to 1.7 bar.

Everything shakes up that the diaphragm vessel does not work.

Turn off the boiler and cut it off with valves, then expand it so that the pressure gauge on the boiler reads 0. Take a tire pressure gauge and measure the pressure in the diaphragm (in your photo this canister on the right, unscrew the plastic cap). If your blood pressure is below 1 bar, refill it with a car pump, lower the pressure a lot more.

The thing on the right is just a magic vessel.
Do this, drain the water from the boiler after closing the valves on it, and measure the pressure on the vessel with an ordinary car wheel pressure gauge.
If the pressure is less than 0.8 atm.
Then fill it up with a car pump.
Should help.

Oops ... someone warned me, but do nothing as we write.

... And silence and I am very curious why my friend makes the radiators so loud ...

Hello,


problem solved. The reason for the loud work was the valves for the thermostatic heads. The work of the furnace is controlled by the Auraton controller anyway, so I dismantled the valves and inserted the usual ones ... There was a blissful silence .... When I saw the gap through which water flows with such a valve, it actually has the right to hum. The slot is approximately 5 mm long and 2 mm wide. With ordinary valves, the opening is much larger.

I'm sorry for getting tricky but, I have a question, but I don't know how to write it Starting from the beginning, there is a coal-fired boiler about 15m away from the house (it was not possible to install the stove in the house), the supply pipes are buried in the ground, the first "heater" in the house is a hot water boiler, then 4 radiators are distributed further. There are valves behind the boiler to turn on the radiators in summer to heat up the washing water itself. Namely, the point is that the boiler (with a coil) is powered by a 5/4 pipe and there is a ball valve to reduce the flow to the radiators (it must be unscrewed very minimally because the radiators will not go to the heaters, so there is a very small gap). And the point is that there is a whack on this valve all the time, gurgling something like the air is gathering there my question, what to put instead of this valve ??? One more, the first radiator behind this boiler is constantly airing.

thanks for the answer and best regards

Do you have automatic air vents installed? With such a siphon-like system it is a necessity. You can replace the valve with an orifice, but not recommended for summer.

Dear colleague DonRomano, I have a request because when looking for a message on my problem, I came across your statements, I can see that you are an installer with experience and knowledge of the topic CO, please visit the section beginner, Laboratories, Theory, Papers and getting acquainted with my problem on the topic: central heating-installation to be improved ... Thank you darecki7429

Added after 1 [minutes]:

I'm sorry, gentlemen, anyone who has time and would like to, please read the topic and comment!

ANDYW6 wrote:

Do you have automatic air vents installed? With such a siphon-like system it is a necessity. You can replace the valve with an orifice, but not recommended for summer.

Yes, I have automatic air vents. I also thought to replace the orifice, but in the summer, when I turn off the heaters, it will be linden or maybe a short head valve will be better ??? but where is this air coming from ???

The air has not yet come out of the pipes, which are not perfectly horizontal in the ground.
Once we had to overflow the entire installation with a large flow of water, and only then did it help.
I connected the hose to the boiler room power supply, cut off the coal boiler and drained the water back.
It lasted for a few minutes until all the air escaped, I was surprised how much it was.

but I have this installation for 4 years and I will say that when the pump was in the first gear it was better but the first gear burned and it runs in the second gear, and does anyone know if there is a separate winding for each gear ????

The air is sitting in the pipes, as you increase the flow it starts coming out.
It is also possible that you have an air vent somewhere on the system return, in front of the pump or elsewhere from which the pump can simply suck in air.
This happens often, especially when a filter becomes handy.
However, it's hard to talk about details without seeing the installation, try to get some photos.

As for running water, there are also several options.
I think that you should use a three-way valve with appropriate control.

Check the switch in the pump, the contacts often get dirty.

DonRomano, thank you very much for your interest in my problem, it is a pity that we live so far from each other because I would ask you to visit me personally ... you are right, I have a vent on the return (automatic) but not in front of the pump, but at home, 15 meters from the pump, I will add that I also have the pump on the return in front of the stove because it was a lot of farting on the power supply and we gave it back and it was OK . And is it possible that air will be drawn in through the vent? I cleaned the filter recently (it was quite clean) as for the photos, I'll try tomorrow. What, buddy, do you think about the orifice at the exit of the coil> ??? e.g. on 1/2 inch ?? I checked the contacts on the pump are OK, it broke in the summer as it was not used for a long time and after this break, my wife fired in the stove and in my opinion it was "found", the electricity went and the rotor was standing, but it's just a guess ......... now, buddy, to think about this vent on the return maybe you are right

Of course she can suck that, and even certainly sucks.
On the returns, they are installed in sporadic cases, e.g. on floor circuits, and this is also often the case of such problems, especially when the pumps are also installed on the return.
Disassemble the vent and the biolier will be calm.

I disassembled the vent and to be honest it did nothing I also disassembled some contraption with a ball inside, which was mounted near the pump because I thought that it was not pressing the radiators, but the water (a little) circulates around the pump, and it did not do anything ... in the level; as if there was no circulation and if the humming stops, the radiators are warm and there is silence

Hello!
I have a question. Where can you buy a hot water flow valve for the Ferroli Domina C24E boiler?

The photos of this installation show connections of copper and galvanized steel, and the radiators are probably aluminum, I also have it, and I couldn't cope with the increase in pressure in the installation
go to this address www.fernox.pl and read about the "COPAL" preparation, buy it into the installation, it really helps, I know it myself.

Hello,
I have a similar problem with the noise of the radiators (coal stove) Grundfos pump, the pump controller is Auratron. But it's still nothing recently, I had a serious problem with turning the pump on and off, i.e. the controller turns off every 10 seconds, even when I switch it to continuous motion, it happens so, I am begging you, what could be the reason for this?

Right now I have a problem with the hissing of one large Purmo radiator in the living room (about 3.5 kW), evidently the valve insert in the radiator under the Oventrop thermostatic head hisses, changing the initial setting (red plastic element on the valve insert) from 1 to 7 not much gives, just when the thermostatic head is set to the optimal temperature 3, the hissing of the insert from the choked water flow is the greatest ((at 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 it practically disappears).
I wonder if the valve insert in the Purmo radiator (production 2007) can be replaced with any other manufacturer?
Bathrooms or other rooms, blissful silence, only this one ...
Can it choke the flow on the floor connection (there are small shut-off valves in the supply and return in the connection)?
The manifold in the hall valveless.
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netcomers wrote:

The reason for the loud work was the valves for the thermostatic heads. [...] I disassembled the valves and put the usual ones in ... There was a blissful silence .... When I saw through what gap the water flows with such a valve, it actually has the right to hum. The slot is approximately 5 mm long and 2 mm wide. With ordinary valves, the opening is much larger.

Bleed it properly.