Will the differential work without an earth electrode? How to connect?

I'm not a fan of grounding at all costs, but I believe there is where it can be done. By contrast, the stories of "two old ladies on the community board" give me a rash!
Such tales were a good 20 years ago. Times have changed. The community of residents is an enigmatic creation that is the agenda of the state, and the ladies are not from a party. The community is a team of residents. And they decide who is the manager. If the "two ladies" do not meet the expectations, they should be chased away. But for this you have to go to the General Assembly and start to burn there, not on the "electrode". If you allowed the cage to be renovated without replacing the (in my opinion necessary) electrical installation - it is YOUR fault. And don't moan at the "two old ladies". I'm sorry, but it took me a while. But that's because I deal with the same attitudes in my cooperative. Everyone is blowing their mouths for their own use, but if you have to come to a general meeting or, God forbid, let yourself be elected to the council of residents, this is an insurmountable problem.
And in response to Kol. "Geguś" - I invested my own money to arrange the fifth wire in the block (admittedly with 4 floors). And I had the greatest satisfaction when one of the tenants, representing the attitude by the Germans called "fenigficker", came to ask me for permission to connect to "my" cable.
Once again, I apologize for the emotions and I greet everyone.

Cool HeSz , you have nothing to apologize for.

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I'm not a grounding fanatic at all costs (...)

I know, I wasn't addressing these words to you. However, I cited the 30m of cable that you mentioned that is supposed to be a small expense. Maybe it was small for you, because you have a shaft in the block, but take into account the lack of it - then the costs increase, and a lot. Imagine a young married couple who have made a renovation in their apartment and it turns out that at their own expense they have to replace the riser or add a wire and then renew the cage.

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By contrast, the stories of "two old ladies on the community board" give me a rash!
Such tales were a good 20 years ago.

20 years ago, there were no Housing Associations.

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Times have changed. The community of residents is an enigmatic creation that is the agenda of the state, and the ladies are not from a party. The community is a team of residents. And they decide who is the manager. If the "two ladies" do not meet the expectations, they should be chased away. But for this you have to go to the General Assembly and start to burn there, not on the "electrode". If you allowed the cage to be renovated without replacing the (in my opinion necessary) electrical installation - it is YOUR fault. And don't moan at the "two old ladies".

Yes, you are right, people decide together at the meeting who is on the Board. And what? Or maybe most of them have a different opinion than me.
From time to time, meetings are organized where resolutions are passed and the budget for the next year is determined. Not always one or two people are able to vote for the stupid ideas of the majority of the co-owners. These my quoted "two ladies" are only the tip of the iceberg, and the rest of them have discharge during their operation (this does not apply, of course, to voting).
Another thing, what to do if the Housing Community has no money for renovation because it has spent funds for other purposes ...

Now, remarks from my professional work.
I know the WM refusal to replace the WLZ for a private apartment or, as you wrote, of the PE wire and grounding in the basement. It was always the same thing - the cage after renovation. Do you think people have health, time and money to litigate? Such processes may take years even though the Construction Law etc. is on our side.
As an electrician, I do what I have consented to - I am an outsider and not the client's advocate. I'm not going to sue WM because I can't do this or that.


Sorry for the OT
Greetings.

Of course I did. The only thing I did not deny myself was a biting remark. I guess I formulated my posts a bit wrong since you considered me to be a grounding fanatic. I believe that if it is necessary and possible, it should be done. And the repair fund went to repair the roof and balconies. Everything was flooded everywhere. Such a technology of building buildings. I was offering my neighbors a contribution for the fifth wire, but they buckled on me. Hence my spite. Greetings.
Acha WLZ standard for TN-C from the early 1980s.

HESZ is right, in my block I also crave old crap that does not need anything, a bunch of dirty people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tulipan13 wrote:

HESZ is right, in my block I also crave old crap that does not need anything, a bunch of dirty people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You used some blunt words but unfortunately this is the truth about many Communities.

Are the girls from the administration? They can be anxious (female intuition) before and after the installation according to colleague HeSz.
Reminder topics (for electricians).
1. Electric space (analogy - terrain) in high-rise residential buildings.
2. Insulation and separation of living quarters.
3. Influence of the supply zone on safety.

For educational purposes, I am asking my colleague HeSz to describe the advantages and disadvantages of the "secret" installation.

I am following the ungrounded separation before the differential in the living quarters of the 11th floor.

The installation is not "secret". It was made in accordance with the requirements of the "Construction Law" and in agreement with the Management Board of the Cooperative. It's just that the Cooperative did not have the funds to carry it out.
Greetings.

PN-IEC 60364-4-41
Electrical installations in buildings
Protection for your safety
Electric shock protection
413.1.3.8 The following protective devices may be used in the TN system:
- .....................
- residual current protection devices
with the following reservations:
- the residual current device cannot be used in the TN-C system

Removal of the protective function of the PEN conductor (failure to connect the pin in the socket) and connection of the socket pins to the earth electrode causes the switch to the TT system at the TN network, which is unacceptable.
These are comments quickly without analyzing the entire discussion.
General note - do not experiment without knowledge of a specific topic.
For example, the proposal to make a protective earth electrode instead of a protective-neutral PEN conductor may cause a potential to be elevated to other elements of the installation and may result in electric shock in other apartments.
The type of TN, TT networks results from the technical conditions specified by the supplier. The TT system can be used as a TT island in the TN system, but it must apply to a separate part of the network beyond the range of the main equipotential bonding of the TN system (in the facility).
That's it, in short.
Detailed explanations in the texts of Dr. Edward Musiał.
Yours sincerely:
Maciek6

Hello:
WLZ is made in the TN-C system:

3 phase conductors L1, L2, L3 - for an apartment with a single-phase supply 1 phase conductor L

1 protective-neutral PEN wire - for an apartment with single-phase power supply 1 PEN wire

After the modernization of the installation in the apartment (single-phase power supply)
1 phase conductor L
1 neutral conductor N
1 PE protective conductor
from the split point of PEN to PE and N
Layout of the TN-CS network
WLZ operates in the TN-C system
installation in an apartment from the TN-S distribution point
The operating current flows in PEN - equal to the phase current in a single-phase apartment system, in a three-phase WLZ, the current being the sum of the phase currents (calculations based on complex values) equal to zero with a symmetrical load and no higher harmonics.
Only the leakage current or an additional short-circuit current in the PE protective conductor (phase-to-part short circuit available).
Yours sincerely:
mother6