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Switchgear in the house - how to divide the phases into fuses

sabathan 24355 23
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
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  • #1 7550932
    sabathan
    Level 10  
    Hello and welcome,

    When planning connections in the switchgear, I have a question for you:

    How to divide the phases, i.e. L1, L2 and L3 into appropriate points..

    I have planned a division into:
    1 Dishwasher - B12 - max. current consumption = 1.1 kW
    2 Induction hob - B16/3 - max. current consumption = 8.3 kW
    3 Oven - B32 - max. current consumption = 2.0 kW
    4 Flow water heater in the kitchen - B16 - max. current consumption = 7.0 kW
    5 sockets kitchen - B16 - max. current consumption = 2.2 kW
    6 sockets living room+dining room - B16 - max. current consumption = 0.5 kW
    7 Lighting living room+dining room+kitchen - B10 - max. current consumption = 0.5 kW
    8 Lighting+sockets in the billiard room - B16 - max. current consumption = 0.5 kW
    9 Lighting 1st floor - B10 - max. current consumption = 1.0 kW
    10 Sockets 1st floor - B16 - max. current consumption = 0.5 kW
    11 sockets 1st floor bathroom - B16 - max. current consumption = 1.5 kW
    12 Flow water heater in the bathroom. ground floor - B16 - max. current consumption = 7 kW
    13 Flow water heater in the bathroom. 1st floor - C25/3 40A - max. current consumption = 24 kW

    I initially divided it like this:
    L1 - 1,2,9,10,11.
    L2 - 3,4,5,6,7,8.
    L3 - 12.13.

    Do you think this division is ok?
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  • #2 7550999
    Akrzy74
    Rest in Peace  
    1- Why B12 and where to get it?
    3- Why B32 at 2kW - what is the reason for this?
    4- I hope it is a 3 phase heater.
    13- Why "C"

    Can you write what cables you used to power the receivers (cross-sections)?
  • #3 7551119
    keszan
    Level 20  
    sabathan wrote:
    Hello and welcome,

    When planning connections in the switchgear, I have a question for you:

    How to divide the phases, i.e. L1, L2 and L3 into appropriate points..

    I have planned a division into:
    1 Dishwasher - B12 - max. current consumption = 1.1 kW
    2 Induction hob - B16/3 - max. current consumption = 8.3 kW
    3 Oven - B32 - max. current consumption = 2.0 kW
    4 Flow water heater in the kitchen - B16 - max. current consumption = 7.0 kW
    5 sockets kitchen - B16 - max. current consumption = 2.2 kW
    6 sockets living room+dining room - B16 - max. current consumption = 0.5 kW
    7 Lighting living room+dining room+kitchen - B10 - max. current consumption = 0.5 kW
    8 Lighting+sockets in the billiard room - B16 - max. current consumption = 0.5 kW
    9 Lighting 1st floor - B10 - max. current consumption = 1.0 kW
    10 Sockets 1st floor - B16 - max. current consumption = 0.5 kW
    11 sockets 1st floor bathroom - B16 - max. current consumption = 1.5 kW
    12 Flow water heater in the bathroom. ground floor - B16 - max. current consumption = 7 kW
    13 Flow water heater in the bathroom. 1st floor - C25/3 40A - max. current consumption = 24 kW

    I initially divided it like this:
    L1 - 1,2,9,10,11.
    L2 - 3,4,5,6,7,8.
    L3 - 12.13.

    Do you think this division is ok?


    Hello!
    Col. "sebasthan"
    Wrong, L3-12 and 13, load=31KW
    L2-circuit,3,4,5=11.2 KW
    Again, think about how to divide the load fairly evenly.
    Adam :wink:
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  • #4 7551144
    maruda2
    Level 13  
    It is bad at least because you have classified three-phase receivers as one phase
  • #5 7551160
    sabathan
    Level 10  
    Jun,

    1. B12 - I don't know why - that's what it says in the device manual
    3. according to the instruction
    4. yes
    13. my mistake B25/3

    I changed the layout a bit
    To view the material on this forum you must be logged in.

    Added after 4 [minutes]:

    You are right about max sums. consumption, but it is also important to exclude simultaneous operation of the devices, e.g. the dishwasher is started in the evening when nothing else is turned on on the ground floor; flow preheat water on the first floor is activated when the kitchen, hob, etc. are no longer working.

    Added after 3 [minutes]:

    (of course, separation of PEN into PE and N before the differential. Unfortunately, PE will not be grounded)
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  • #6 7551356
    Akrzy74
    Rest in Peace  
    So what are these cuts? :) I don't see a circuit breaker anywhere...
  • #7 7551429
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #8 7551465
    sabathan
    Level 10  
    below is a slightly revised chapter and additional data

    To view the material on this forum you must be logged in.

    Added after 18 [minutes]:

    To view the material on this forum you must be logged in.

    "...only one differential..." - should I divide it into two?
  • #9 7551602
    Akrzy74
    Rest in Peace  
    In fact, I did not look at the modified table :wink:
    11-It is worth using - or at least "thinking about" the 5x cable ...
    9-2kW oven with B32A protection is probably a misunderstanding. Enter the type of cooker, because it may turn out that the cooker "needs" 2 phases to power it, and if it is powered from 1-phase :shocked!:
    14- Another misunderstanding. For 3-phase receivers rcd 3-phase, for 1-phase - 1-phase...
  • #10 7551605
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #11 7551615
    Akrzy74
    Rest in Peace  
    I see that col. geguś has a similar opinion as the moderator. That's good... :lol:
  • #12 7551921
    sabathan
    Level 10  
    Thanks :)

    changes:
    9. B32 to B25 - oven:To view the material on this forum you must be logged in.
    11. 4x2.5mm2 to 5x2.5mm2
    14. RCD 1 phase 25A/30mA
    15. RCD 3-phase 40A/30mA
    what protection do I have against the counter? :) good question :)

    To view the material on this forum you must be logged in.

    phase division is according to you okay?
    how to connect two RCDs?
  • #13 7551932
    pawllo
    Level 10  
    According to you should load L3, e.g. all lighting. Note that Phase L3, apart from symmetrical 3-phase loads, is not loaded at all.
    Also, you should separate priority circuits. That's how it's supposed to be done in the west. Namely, a refrigerator, a central heating boiler, a garage door, etc. are devices that, in my opinion, should always be live. There must be no situation where a short-circuit in the socket in the bedroom or activation of the differential circuit due to a puncture of the washing machine in the bathroom, etc., turns off the above-mentioned devices. Especially when no one is home.
    I am in favor of protecting such circuits with single-module differential circuits with an overcurrent circuit breaker, a bit more money, but it's a good solution.
    One differential is definitely not enough in such an installation. Unfortunately, we do such installations because, as usual, they are cheap. Your choice. Moller has a nice guide, see how the Germans secure their installations. There, no one says that it should be cheap, because cheap and economical in this case is almost always a bad thing.
    Think about it.

    Added after 2 [minutes]:

    And for the B16A oven, I think it's enough.
  • #14 7552001
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
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  • #15 7552004
    sabathan
    Level 10  
    i.e. move 'all lighting' to L3? - Okay - nice idea :)
    as for 'priority' devices, i.e. furnace, gate, etc - I have them powered from a completely different source, so it should be OK :) there is only a fridge - it 'hangs' on the kitchen sockets in which only the kettle (2 kW) works anyway

    Added after 4 [minutes]:

    i.e. point 9. Oven for 3x4mm B25 - thx :) I'm already changing

    by the way, what cross-section should the cable from the meter to the switchgear have in the current configuration? 4x6mm - not enough? - 4x10mm will be ok?

    Added after 3 [minutes]:

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  • #16 7552087
    Akrzy74
    Rest in Peace  
    Sabathan col. quote
    Quote:
    When planning connections in the switchgear, I have a question for you:

    First it was just security planning, now it's about changing the wires....
    A colleague asks as an investor, contractor, or a lover of general knowledge?
  • #17 7552102
    sabathan
    Level 10  
    'General knowledge lover' - I like to know what the 'professional' who comes should/shouldn't do.

    Added after 2 [minutes]:

    like pawllo friend said
    Quote:
    Unfortunately, we do such installations because, as usual, they are cheap. Your choice. Moller has a nice guide, see how the Germans secure their installations. There, no one says that it should be cheap, because cheap and economical in this case is almost always a bad thing.


    Added after 16 [minutes]:

    as for the two differentials (1-phase, 3-phase), at the beginning planning to use one, it seemed to me that it would look something like this

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    how should the two be connected?
    This drawing seems strangely familiar to me. [Luke]
  • #18 7552208
    Akrzy74
    Rest in Peace  
    Quote:
    'General knowledge lover' - I like to know what the 'professional' who comes should/shouldn't do.

    So it will be the professional who will perform the installation and connections in the switchgear - will you? Because it seems to me that you're making us into a balloon... :idea:
  • #19 7552238
    sabathan
    Level 10  
    You don't want to reply to my posts, just don't reply, but don't 'push' me here that I want to make you into a 'balloon' - you're not 'You', it's just you and other users?
    Is it so hard to understand that someone wants to know more than just how much it will cost :) Besides, I would like to be able to verify his work to some extent. I don't understand your approach, after all, that's what the forum is supposed to be for. I'm not a kid and I'm not going to get involved in 'something' I don't know, but I want to know more

    Added after 11 [minutes]:

    Thanks for your help so far, there are two unresolved issues: :)

    1. How the connection diagram of two differential circuits (1-phase, 3-phase) in the switchgear should look like
    2. What cross-section should the cable from the meter to the switchgear have in the current configuration?
  • #20 7552375
    Łukasz-O
    Admin of electroenergetics  
    sabathan wrote:

    1. How the connection diagram of two differential circuits (1-phase, 3-phase) in the switchgear should look like
    2. What cross-section should the cable from the meter to the switchgear have in the current configuration?


    ad1. You connect in the same way as in my drawing, except that each differential must have a separate N bus. Make a copy of the picture and glue it next to the first one. The PE rail is of course common.

    ad2. First, tell me what pre-meter protections and power allocation you have.

    PS You don't have a cross-section in your project?
  • #21 7552406
    sabathan
    Level 10  
    1. I don't 'see' the drawing :(
    2. I will look at the security tomorrow and at the contract because there is probably a power allocation there

    This is a rebuild/'special additions' to an existing installation :)
    I know it's usually better to start over, but sometimes you just can't. :)

    Added after 3 [minutes]:

    ...aaa - it's about THIS drawing :)

    Added after 33 [minutes]:

    the wiring diagram (below) is OK?

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  • Helpful post
    #22 7552499
    Łukasz-O
    Admin of electroenergetics  
    Yes, although I would connect the PEN directly to the PE strip, only from this strip to power the RCD.
  • Helpful post
    #23 7552502
    elpapiotr
    Electrician specialist  
    Hello.
    sabathan wrote:
    the wiring diagram (below) is OK?

    Seemingly good, but technically (and visually) PEN cannot be separated into N and PE under
    differential terminal, as well as inputting PEN to this terminal.
    The separation takes place elsewhere, while maintaining the principle of not interrupting PEN in
    any way.
  • #24 7552529
    sabathan
    Level 10  
    OK, my mistake :) separate the PEN on the PE strip and then to the RCD as N ?

    To view the material on this forum you must be logged in.

    can a 3-phase RCD be connected with a fuse 1 and 3 phase ? as in the picture on the right
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Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the proper division of electrical phases (L1, L2, L3) in a residential switchgear setup, focusing on the allocation of circuit breakers for various appliances. The user initially proposed a configuration for different devices, including a dishwasher, induction hob, oven, and water heaters, but received feedback regarding the need for a more balanced load distribution across the phases. Participants highlighted the importance of correctly classifying three-phase devices and suggested using appropriate circuit breakers and cable sizes. The conversation also touched on the necessity of separating PEN into PE and N before the differential circuit and the potential need for multiple RCDs for safety. The user sought clarification on wiring diagrams and the correct cross-section for cables from the meter to the switchgear.
Summary generated by the language model.
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