Securing American 110V Device for European 230V Network: Longevity & Protection Measures

Question

Hello, I have a little question. I am to connect to our European network a device that was brought from America. That is, to change the supply voltage of devices from our 230V to 110V. And here is my question whether the device connected to the transformer itself will break down faster or wear...

bartek0518 · Answer

A transformer is enough, of course you can add a thermal protection or, of course, an ordinary fuse. And what is this device? Electronics like DVD, TV etc.? If so, it definitely has its security.

wro_slepy · Answer

At first glance, it is a large massage chair and many other household appliances and RTF devices. I wonder how to make a large transformer for many devices. I just need to make a cost estimate, but I don't know where you can get something like this because I haven't been looking yet, but knowing life in an electric warehouse

electrician · Answer

Hello, also take into account that the current frequency in the USA is 60 Hz (ours 50) The transformer will take care of the voltage change, but check if the device can work at a frequency of 50 Hz.

tragi · Answer

Any kind of equipment with a motor (e.g. coffee grinders) will run slower than in the States - lower frequency, so lower speed of the motors. In this case, the transformer will not do the trick, you would have to think about building an inverter for 60Hz

wro_slepy · Answer

yes i forgot something like frequency, what if it can't work on our frequency? It will burn or become blurred, because I do not remember what the effects of a different frequency may be, the motor will spin slower; p that's ok but what will happen with electronics because it is more sensitive?

tragi · Answer

Nothing will happen to the engine, less revs, less torque. Only that this engine usually works in some device that needs a certain speed, not less.

Informacja · Answer

In some devices (e.g. coffee grinder, ice crusher, etc.), reducing the speed of the motor may cause the knife to cut through the material instead. he will get stuck in it and break.
On the surface, it seems unlikely given the reduction in torque of the motor. But it can be so.
At least more often than for the correct frequency.
With a small engine, it shouldn't be a problem.
Not necessarily with bigger ones.
There is a problem with the bearing arrangement for a specific speed.
Here, however, the worry is a bit smaller than, for example, for a cassette recorder, a simple device programmer, etc. There, reducing the frequency can quite unexpectedly result in an extension of the program execution time.
The mains frequency determines the values of the frequency filter elements, which are to, for example, cause the power supply to provide a perfectly clean voltage from the mains noise.
Changing the frequency can, unfortunately, also make them slightly worse.
And finally, the most important problem

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Devices built on 110V may have worse insulation than devices built on 230V. This may increase the likelihood of electric shock to those operating or using these devices.
Thus, each time the decision to modify such devices should be made by a specialist who knows the relevant regulations and the method of construction of the device operating on the American market.

Without proper knowledge, I would definitely not do it.
In addition to the harm that can be done to others and yourself, improper modification also threatens the transformer with criminal penalties.

Regards.

Anonymous · Answer

Buddy, don't scare the man, especially since your arguments are unfounded. After changing the supply voltage, the device can be operated. This is done using appropriate transformers. The subject is known and mastered. The torque does not depend on the frequency. The electrolytes have a tolerance of + 80% and therefore it will not matter. Bronek You must have made a mistake. The colleague will still power the equipment from 110V. Provide paragraphs. Because I have not heard that the Penal Code has spoken on this matter. Bronek

krzysztr · Answer

the best solution would be to buy special adapters, but with additional frequency change they are quite expensive. Nevertheless, modern devices should cope with problems such as a different frequency. If your device does not have frequency dependent components (mainly motors), there should be no problems with its correct operation

Informacja · Answer

Bronek.

A colleague may be powering the device from a transformer.
But he did not write where and what transformer he intends to use.
It should be assumed that if inside a device whose insulation is adapted to 110V, it may turn out that this insulation is insufficient.
If from a separate transformer adapted to work with a voltage of 230 or 400 V / 110V and having an appropriate housing or insulation, OKI.
Your other arguments testify to your lack of knowledge, mildly.
For both in the formulas for rotational speed and in the formulas for the moment of force, frequency is embedded.
In other words, the rotational speed of the motor (and therefore the linear speed imparted to the shaft mounted devices) depends on the frequency.
The moment of force is calculated from the formula F * R where F = m * V * V / R, which means that the moment of force M = V * V * m because, however, V = wxR where w- omega x vector product and R- radius and w = 1 / f omega is the reciprocal of frequency then obviously the torque M depends on the frequency.

The other elements of your speech are much more wrong, unfortunately.
As for the applicable law, on my subpage with the end of the link you have a link to isip - the parliament's online legal information system, where you will find all the acts and you can check what they result from.

The Criminal Code is clear on the issue of "Who, for the purpose of making a profit, endangers the health or life of other people, .....
If you don't believe it, look at him.

If the device is installed with a transformer with a voltage higher than 110V by unauthorized persons, it is certainly not a lawful operation.

Even though Bronek would like otherwise.

jekab · Answer

These famous adapters can charge the electrolyte up to 300V in the switching power supply and destroy it. And in small household appliances, serial commutator motors are usually used and at 110v and 50Hz they will rotate a little faster and not slower than at 60Hz.

Anonymous · Answer

First of all, I ask myself to make statements as to what I would like. Do not add to my text what I did not write. Certainly against the law. By what right, you're kidding me. No qualifications are needed to repair electronic devices. Since when does a poorly performed service lead to criminal penalties? There are no such paragraphs. Especially in the criminal code. Breaking the law, these are not criminal but civil cases. This is a fundamental difference. Dude, it's even worse, because the law won't close the company when someone messes up the job. There are many known cases on this forum of a botched electrical installation, for which specific permissions are required. And the cases are not suitable for the prosecution, despite the fact that the phase is on the bolts. Bronek

bartek0518 · Answer

Buddy. Information, who tells the author of the topic to interfere with the device? He will buy a transformer as a separate box or better for a layman with a housing and it does not deteriorate the protection conditions of a given device (Supply voltage is the same). He does it for himself, not for sale, so it is the manufacturer of the transformer and the equipment that must worry about whether they are operational and the user only about whether they have followed the manufacturer's instructions.

Anonymous · Answer

I will write even more. A person without professional experience may wonder that it will be possible to choose a transformer with dimensions and parameters at all as it is in Western equipment. Mainly it concerns mechanical dimensions and mechanical methods of fastening. In addition, and most importantly, it will lose its warranty on the equipment, regardless of the specialist who makes the replacement. So these types of considerations are frivolous. Here the colleague is wrong. Because the safety options for a device are not the same as a transformer class. The manufacturer is not responsible here for the effect of the application. The metal housing hit is a device, and it does not have to be class 2, despite the use of class 2 transformers. Bronek

Informacja · Answer

To Bronki 22
As I can see, my colleague has never written that he brought the device under warranty, or even a new one.
I think that my friend is attacking me, not being able to come to terms with the deficiencies in his own knowledge.
Instead of wasting your time attacking the presence of an unknown man, I suggest that you spend your time studying the theory, which can also come in handy at times.
As I understand, my colleague has experience, so he knows that even for 110V devices with 500V insulation test voltage (required for 230V operation) are built. Transformer adjustment, filter change, receiver retuning, etc. are performed.
But it should be done by a PROFESSIONAL, not a bungler.
And it is a specialist who knows the principle of operation of the device, the environmental conditions in which it will be used, etc.

Regards

Awdeg · Answer

Well, the author of the post wants to use a large 230 / 110v transformer, or actually it should be 120v, but this is a detail and a colleague INFORMATION sows misinformation cites some patterns multiplying problems. The replaced device after connecting via trafo or autotrafo will work correctly in our network. And in general, equipment for 110v is safer than that for 230v, hence, for example, power tools used in construction have a 110V power supply

Anonymous · Answer

A 220 / 120v autotransformer has been lying in my basement for a long time. It is three-phase, power probably around 2kw. It's a pity you don't live in Poznań because you could check it out. It was used for a 110v grinder, smoothing terrazzo.

Informacja · Answer

In Poland, the EU legislation is adopted as binding.
It defines exactly what electrical devices can be considered safe.
Electric appliances from overseas, despite the will of some people, will not work well.
Correctly, it can mean something else for everyone.
For one egg timer in the electric cooker, counting down 4 minutes and 10 seconds instead of five minutes, this is correct, and from the point of view of logic and law, it is not.
If you advise badly, it is better at all.

Regards.

Darik6 · Answer

rewind the transformer from 230 v to 110 v on two separate columns as far as the safety transformer is concerned and connect the thermal protection to the appropriate device load. Regards.

darbla · Answer

The blind one, just like others wrote the necessary trafo, only first you need to know the power of all devices, and only then choose the right one taking into account the simultaneity factor and only then you can choose overcurrent protection (not thermal)

choinka_1863 · Answer

I have a question and a request, because I really care about systematizing the knowledge and obtaining verified information.
I have an American 50W guitar tube amplifier. I am determined to use an external transformer (apparently not an autotransformer). Can you advise me what I should buy? Apparently it should have a power reserve, how much? What should I consider? Do you recommend any specific companies or models? I want to avoid Chinese food.

Here are the hardware data in terms of current, power consumption: 120VAC, 60 HZ, 200 WATTS

deksta84 · Answer

Uhuhu If you connect to the American induction to 50Hz, the power consumption will increase a bit! by about 20%. This is really a lot. As for inverters and motors: U / f = constants must be used.

choinka_1863 · Answer

Unfortunately I'm completely green on these points, could you please a little brighter?

deksta84 · Answer

Simply: reactance (resistance) of the coils Xl = L * 2?f,
for 50Hz: Xl = L * 314, for 60Hz: Xl = L * 376.
376/314 = 1.2, which is 20% more resistance at 60Hz.
Therefore, in order to equalize the power consumption, it is necessary to reduce the rated voltage as the supply frequency decreases.
110/60 = Ux / 50 -> Ux = 91.6V

The point is that correspondingly lower voltages will be on the secondary sides of the transformers. As for the engines, RPM will increase!
Rotation speed = n / f
n - number of supply poles (constant)
And about the bearings: The strength is taken up with some allowance. Nothing will happen with this frequency change! The motors are attached to the inverters and everything is fine!

choinka_1863 · Answer

there seems to have been a slight misunderstanding I hooked up to the author's topic, I did not want to start a new one, and this has been silent for some time. Something did not suit me so much with these motors, bearings, etc. It's about this amplifier, sorry for the confusion

tragi · Answer

Buddy Deksta84 what are you writing about here? Guy has a tube amplifier for which the power supply wants to make - unless I misunderstood something. It will eject your existing 110V 60Hz AC power supply and pack a new power supply. He is talking about a power supply that gives DC voltage at the output. But you messed up the guy's head.

deksta84 · Answer

I put out everything I needed. and for motors and transformers. I believe that the topic should be closed. Regards

Rzuuf · Answer

The commutator motor (universal - such as in coffee grinders or vacuum cleaners) does not respond to the frequency change of the mains and works equally well at 60Hz, 50Hz and direct current. Its rotation (and power) depends on the voltage with which it is supplied. American devices with input rectifier and converter (as in computer power supplies and monitors) - unless they have a 117 / 230V switch, should be powered from the appropriate permitted voltage, and the network frequency does not matter. RTV devices working according to American standards will cause problems: TV has a different frequency of the deflection, a different color subcarrier (moreover NTSC and not PAL), different audio spacing, different channel arrangement. All in all: unless it is a factory-set multi-standard receiver, it will be useless in Poland. Also, DVD equipment may not be able to play European discs due to regionalized coding. The American VHF radio also works with slightly different parameters (different de-emphasis), while the bands outside VHF will be able to be listened to without any problems. Audio equipment - unless it was designed for other standards, can sweat if it is powered from the 50Hz mains: the American transformer, when connected to our frequency, has only 80% American power and heats up more. All in all: importing electrical and electronic devices from the USA is subject to a high risk of incompatibility and lack of service (and spare parts, no screw fits, because the threads are inch).

tragi · Answer

Everything that my colleague Rzuuf wrote is true, but I cannot agree with one thesis, concerning the American VHF radio receivers. There is a different de-emphasis in their equipment, but this does not interfere with the reception. I still have a Walkman somewhere at home with an AM / FM radio brought from the USA in 1988. and the FM radio has been running flawlessly so far. When I got it, I wanted to tune it to the lower VHF, but nobody did it then (all SMD components) and it was good, because I didn't have to do anything later.

Securing American 110V Device for European 230V Network: Longevity & Protection Measures

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