How many differentials should be used at home for convenience?

Hello.
I would like to know what is the minimum number of differentials in a single-family house to make it comfortable.

I don't want an electrician to push too many of them.
There can only be 4?
Can even less?
sockets (including kitchen),
lighting,
bathrooms
garage with a boiler room,

I would like to add that it is a house with a usable attic, I do not need a division into circuits on the ground floor and on the first floor.

One for each phase and one for the fridge + central heating pump

The more the better. As it is a house, not an apartment in a block of flats, 3 is enough for each phase of the socket circuit for comfort. With the exception of the alarm, heating furnace, garden lighting and lighting in the house. This is a proven scheme in practice.

1. When the differential strikes, where is the alarm, there is a big trouble when no one is at home longer as they keep the batteries and how is Satel or AAT programmed, e.g.

2. If there is a difference in CO and the householders are for Christmas, 500 km from the house, the house will get cold.

3. Sooner or later, the differential will start beating under the garden lighting. When an electrician appears, he will almost always stick it rigidly under N from the meter, without a differential.

4. Securing the lighting in the house with a differential may be, but it is practically not needed (except for the basement).

one for each phase seems to be a cheaper solution than I suggested, am I wrong ??
hmm, how then with the power socket ??

Hello.

1. 3-phase to protect 3-phase devices [400V electric cooker, power socket]
2. 1-phase to protect 1-phase receivers [L1]
3. 1-phase to protect 1-phase receivers [L2]
4. 1-phase to protect 1-phase receivers [L3]
5. 1-phase to protect 1-phase receivers [bathroom]

Without RCD:
- external lighting
- power supply of the entrance gate actuator
- CO furnace
- alarm

yugo25 wrote:

3. Sooner or later, the differential will start beating under the garden lighting. When an electrician appears, he will almost always stick it rigidly under N from the meter, without a differential.

Total nonsense.

Added after 53 [seconds]:

Miwhoo wrote:

Without RCD:
- external lighting
- power supply of the entrance gate actuator
- CO furnace
- alarm

Does a colleague know the standard?

In short, where the water [particularly dangerous conditions] there is a differential.

I have not yet assembled the entire PN library due to the limited fund, I am relying on what I have seen so far and arranged for me by the elders with whom I worked. There is a probability that it is wrong [although the acceptance was passed], in that case please correct the facts. I'll stick the revised version into the brain gland.

Sory for the confusion.
Greetings.
Miwhoo.

I have a 1-phase rcd on each phase (3 pieces in total) 1x 3-phase rcd for the garage and 1x 3-phase rcd 300mA for the whole house (fire protection)

For the sake of convenience, I have stair switches at home, and the RCD is for the safety of the household members. So much for the topic.

Refrigerator as a "standing" device in the kitchen powered without rcd - so a dedicated circuit? This is nonsense, because the refrigerator is powered from a general-purpose socket. Today it is powered from socket No. 1, and next year from socket No. 2, so all sockets in the kitchen are protected by a residual current device!
Outdoor lighting circuits without rcd? Well, unless in the 2nd grade - otherwise it is another misunderstanding ...

There is no question of a refrigerator without an RCD. All sockets used by laymen must be protected from some time by an RCD.

Maybe I will present my installation:
3 lighting circuits,
4 socket circuits (general)
1 kitchen 230V
1 wire 230V (actually a gas flame, but an electric spark)
1 dishwasher
1 fridge
1 garage socket 230V
1 garage power slot
1 boiler room (furnace controller)
1 alarm
1 teletechnical devices (WiFi at home)
4 external light circuits (in the ground)
5 light circuits on the facade and soffit)
1 garage door
1 entrance gate


It has built up a bit, but at least there will be a large wardrobe

My electrician wants to pack 6 differentials for me, I do not know if he is exaggerating, he does not even tell me whether they will be single-phase or three-phase, so I do not know how much money the wardrobe will cost me.

I would ask for a specific number of differentials and what those differentials should be, to make it cheap, safe and reasonably comfortable.

I would not like a situation where after a few months, I will not have electricity in the whole house, because somewhere an electrician has screwed up the protective wire to the housing and something is happening there ..

Regards

I have one for the entire installation for 10 years, it crashes only once.

avatar wrote:

I have a 1-phase rcd on each phase (3 pieces in total) 1x 3-phase rcd for the garage and 1x 3-phase rcd 300mA for the whole house (fire protection)

I understand that there is an LZ input, then a 35A riser protection. 300mA four-rail RCD, and further RCDs for each phase.
The regulations say about RCD- kitchen sockets, securing each socket in the bathroom separately and a differential for other circuits

Moderated By Łukasz-O:

Please do not invent recipes that do not exist.

Do the regulations really say about securing each socket in the bathroom separately? About the differential for the other circuits ??

From what I remember, the standards say about RCDs in the bathroom and kitchen.

I am curious how it is in other European countries? Or do they all bout the differences for each circuit or only Poles?

kiha wrote:

The regulations say about RCDs, kitchen sockets, and security each socket in the bathroom separately and differential for other circuits

Interesting recipe

You forget that the more circuits on one RCD, the greater the leakage and the more sensitive the differential. I do not understand how you can put 6 differentials in someone, it is probably better to buy overcurrent circuit breakers with a differential module (e.g. CKN6) but for a single-family house it makes no sense because it unnecessarily increases the price of the entire board and labor costs, I saw something like this in the hotel board where each room had a separate circuit breaker with a differential module. In my practice, for an average single-family house, I give one 40A / 30mA differential and all circuits are protected by the differential. Connecting the alarm before the differential is not a good idea because if we have an alarm with a notification, we will get a text message with the message that there is no electricity.

Hello!

In today's installation, all socket circuits must be protected by a residual current device.
So, stationary receivers do not have to have such protection, but if they are installed in the bathroom, the RCD switch in such a circuit is obligatory.
These requirements apply to sockets operated by laymen, i.e. untrained people.

As for the number of these devices, there is no ready-made recipe for it (although the more than the better). Except for one thing: avoid using one RCD to protect several single-phase circuits.

kkas12 wrote:

In today's installation, all socket circuits must be protected by a residual current device.

I would like to ask for legal regulation of this phenomenon.

Fantastic col. Quote

Quote:

I would like to ask for legal regulation of this phenomenon.

I believe that you can not pick on one sentence - if col. Kkas12 below explained what he meant.
The use of residual current protection devices with a rated differential current of no more than 30mA in power supply circuits of plug sockets on construction sites, in agricultural and gardening farms, bathrooms, swimming pools, camping sites, in tourist vehicles, in spaces limited by conductive surfaces, etc., is prescribed by the sheets of the PN standard -IEC 60364. The use of residual current devices with a rated differential current of no more than 30mA is particularly recommended in the receiving circuits of plug-in sockets used by unqualified or untrained persons.

Ps. More information in the aforementioned standard PN-IEC 60364 (group 700), and in more available guides for electricians (electricians).

sharky13 wrote:

Connecting the alarm before the differential is not a good idea because if we have an alarm with a notification, we will get a text message with the message that there is no electricity.

You mixed up something. If there is only one 3-F differential for all circuits in the house, the alarm should be connected without this differential, because all liquidity is enough, differential activation and the alarm sounds. And after 24 hours, the regular battery drops and there is no alarm.

Recently, I talked to a neighbor and he tells me that the alarms can be broken, because his friend had, did not work and they robbed him.

They robbed him because: 1. He had no notice 2. They turned off his pre-meter protection 3. He was away from home longer than he had the battery.

What about it? Warn your neighbor about your departure, alert him to ring when he is blowing, and install a lamp powered from the alarm circuit in the house, in front of the differential, which is to stay on all the time.

When a neighbor hears that he is howling at our place and the lamp is off, it is very likely that the thieves have turned off the S-links in front of the meter and are waiting for the battery to be discharged in the alarm.

What's to be surprised about if there was no notification? What is this alarm system without notification? Even on the telephone line ... That the control panel would notify about a power failure. And about the break-in.
This is how people form an opinion about these systems ...

rafal_rx wrote:

Nonsense! The vast majority of enclosures for the Intrusion Detection Systems and KD are metal, protection category I and require PE connection. Plastic housings are rare. There are also metal enclosures with transformers made in category II - I do not remember here if there is a PE terminal.

And in each instruction to the above mentioned, there is a mention of connecting to PE.

So you should use a separate or connected to a switch with the lowest risk of activation due to the fault of the user or a powered receiver.

I'm sorry, but what my friend writes is nonsense. The fact that the instruction manual mentions the connection of PE to a metal housing does not mean that an RCD must be used. One has nothing to do with the other.

yugo25 wrote:

If there is only one 3-F differential for all circuits in the house, the alarm should be connected without this differential, because all liquidity is enough, differential activation and the alarm sounds. And after 24 hours, the regular battery drops and there is no alarm.

Please don't write such nonsense, this forum is read by a lot of people and you are repeating urban legens mindlessly! So soon the alarm doesn't howl and it doesn't howl all the time.

yugo25 wrote:

Recently, I talked to a neighbor and he tells me that the alarms can be broken, because his friend had, did not work and they robbed him.

They robbed him because: 1. He had no notice 2. They turned off his pre-meter protection 3. He was away from home longer than he had the battery.

What about it? Warn your neighbor about your departure, alert him to ring when he is blowing, and install a lamp powered from the alarm circuit in the house, in front of the differential, which is to stay on all the time.

When a neighbor hears that he is howling at our place and the lamp is off, it is very likely that the thieves have turned off the S-links in front of the meter and are waiting for the battery to be discharged in the alarm.

If someone cannot afford one additional single-phase differential and a decent alarm installer, a replacement battery for a decent one every few years, then he should only blame his emptiness in the brain.

My friend rafal_rx , you can definitely afford a difference, a good installer, unfortunately, not all of them, because the better ones lose to the average price of the service It's hard to compete with electricians or other "experts" who will pull cables to the alarm and make babok with cables in the control panel, will not provide any documentation or instructions, but all this for only 1/4 of my price :)

As for the differential, there is some truth in this, because the differential does not only test the current flowing through the phase conductors ... the N-PE short circuit also causes the RCD to trip and in the case of 1 RCD for the entire building, there may be a danger of power failure in the entire building. The second thing is that we are talking about rare and random events, the occurrence of which we are not able to predict over time.

But power conditions are different, and a well-constructed system that takes into account the occurrence of unusual random events and various scenarios of attempts to breach security and notify the user about these events.

Greetings.
Miwhoo.

Hello
I have just started putting up the installation in a single-family house. The investor wants to have everything done as it is in the project. And according to of this design, for every 2 circuits there is one differential + 3-phase sockets. Which gives 13 1-phase differentials. and 3 pcs. 3-phase. He asked if it would be safe. It will only be hard to buy boards over 120 fields.

greetings

januszbe wrote:

Hello
I have just started putting up the installation in a single-family house. The investor wants to have everything done as it is in the project. And according to of this design, for every 2 circuits there is one differential + 3-phase sockets. Which gives 13 1-phase differentials. and 3 pcs. 3-phase. He asked if it would be safe. It will only be hard to buy boards over 120 fields.

greetings

Divide it into 3 arrays and it will be "normal"

Hager has come up with something you can do:

Switchgear up to 336mod.

When you go crazy, it's full

Since there is a small OT regarding switchgears in the topic, I will add three pennies from myself.
I believe that the times when chap. 2x 18 modules are a thing of the past.
I have recently started using the following: