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Why Do Diesel Engines Use Air Flow Meters and Throttles If Fuel Amount Is Controlled?

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Why do diesel engines use an air flow meter and a throttle if fuel quantity is controlled directly?

Diesel engines still need to measure intake air because the amount of air is not constant; it changes with engine speed, load, turbo boost, temperature, altitude, and engine condition, so the ECU must know the air mass to set the correct fuel dose [#8121197][#8120988] In turbo diesels, the ECU often uses a MAF together with pressure and temperature information to calculate the fresh-air mass more accurately, while the manifold pressure sensor is mainly used to control boost [#8120988][#8121197] The flow meter is also used to determine how much exhaust gas is being recirculated through EGR, i.e. to compare fresh air versus recirculated exhaust [#8251771][#8252131] The diesel throttle is therefore not mainly for normal power control, but to help draw in EGR and, in some cases, to smooth engine shutdown and reduce vibrations [#8121197][#8251771]
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  • #31 8125971
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
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  • #32 8127086
    barubar
    Level 26  
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    I wish you that too. You don't even know how much. You're right, I don't know what to discuss. I am blown away by your knowledge advantage in this post. If you find anything else on the net, be sure to write here. Greetings.
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  • #33 8128361
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #34 8135450
    barubar
    Level 26  
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    Interesting, I saw at Abram's if that means anything to you. No, I will not pretend to be smarter than I am here. No, I haven't serviced it. I saw something like that at Stanik, if that means something to you. I have not serviced this either. I saw something I know. I know more than you do. I rely on knowledge, maybe just any knowledge. You are left with the internet and pseudo-automotive ragged newspapers.
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  • #35 8135974
    wopor
    Level 32  
    Posts: 1995
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    Hello, colleagues, the idea of new generation engines, of course, diesels is such that the amount of air sucked into the cylinder per cycle determines the amount of fuel injected, even up to 5 doses per cycle with piezoelectric injections which have lower inertia and thus faster response to the control signal it is about the most effective fuel combustion and a higher degree of efficiency, to get it, you need to measure how much air is flowing into the system at a given moment and at what temperature to calculate the mass of it, the throttle is used to signal the driver's intention to load the engine, because the fuel pressure in the system is CONSTANT and not the amount of air, the constant pressure is realized by the CR pump and the high rail through a pressure sensor and a system that can regulate the efficiency of the high pump and the amount of fuel needed to implement the engine load is regulated by the time and the number of injectors opening, so many theories because there is still ecology :D and this is only a chance for disputes on exhaust emissions from EU directives and standards :D and everything is based on the basic assumption that 15 kg of air is needed for total combustion, i.e. ideal for 1 kg of fuel, best regards
  • #36 8251771
    Michał Walczak
    Level 18  
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    buddy wopor - you write nonsense!
    The fuel pressure in the system is VARIABLE! It ranges from about 250 bar to about 1500 bar (for example IVECO Daily) and varies depending on RPM, load, top-up pressure, temperatures, etc.
    It is regulated by a valve on the CR pump. In the first generation of systems, the valve is on the high pressure side, in the second generation the amount of fuel supplying the pump is controlled on the low pressure side.
    The pressure sensor is in the rail to measure the pressure and correct the pump actuation to obtain the pressure assumed for the given engine operating conditions.
    The flowmeter is usually only available in engines with EGR (euro 4), i.e. secondary exhaust gas circulation. In such a system, we have an additional valve introducing the exhaust gas to the intake manifold to reduce the amount of oxygen in the air supplied to avoid the combustion of poor mixtures at idle speed and to reduce the toxicity of exhaust gases.
    In addition, in such a system there is a throttle to facilitate the intake of exhaust gases and reduce the supply of fresh air.
    Referring to the question of the main topic, the purpose of the flowmeter is to determine the amount of fresh air supplied to the engine and the amount of exhaust gas recirculated into the engine. The air load without the EGR system the cartridge is able to calculate on the basis of air pressure and temperature.
    In addition, in euro 5 cars we have a solid particle filter, and the controller is enriched with the so-called post-injection to increase the temperature of the exhaust gas to burn out soot and clean the particle filter behind the catalyst.
    I see that most people have a strict idea of what it fixes ...
  • #37 8251914
    zbyniuś
    Level 26  
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    You exaggerated with this Euro 5, but in general you are right the flow meter allows the controller to determine and control the amount of exhaust gases and control the EGR valve.
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  • #38 8252131
    amm212
    Level 17  
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    Exactly, buddy. The flow meter allows you to determine the percentage of exhaust gas based on the amount of air. That's the whole philosophy.
  • #39 8252190
    zbyniuś
    Level 26  
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    And it was used in ordinary atmospheric diesel which had a controller and EGR valve + throttle which increases the amount of exhaust gas.
  • #40 9816423
    chevy
    Level 11  
    Posts: 36
    Rate: 4
    As for diesel, I agree that the MAF is used to control the EGR.
    But in gasoline there is probably a slightly different use for calculating the fuel dose?
    And is MAF + Lambda used in gasoline engines or either?

    greetings
  • #41 9816583
    robokop
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
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    The MAF is used together with the throttle position sensor and the RPM sensor to determine the engine load and thus calculate the required fuel dose. Lambda is used only for correction - such a control feedback, whether the calculated value of the mixture composition is correct.
  • #42 9816910
    chevy
    Level 11  
    Posts: 36
    Rate: 4
    OK, thanks, that's what I thought.
    I have one more question.

    Why can't a diesel solution be used in gasoline? So the engine speed is regulated only by increasing the fuel dose. Or, in diesel, use a throttle solution. What does it depend on?
  • #43 9816918
    robokop
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
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    From the type of fuel and its combustion characteristics.

Topic summary

✨ The discussion centers around the purpose of flow meters and throttle control in diesel engines, particularly in relation to fuel management and air intake. Participants clarify that while the amount of air may seem constant, it actually varies with engine conditions, especially in turbocharged systems. Flow meters are essential for accurately measuring the mass of air entering the engine, which is crucial for precise fuel injection, especially in modern diesel engines with advanced injection systems. The throttle is used not to regulate air intake directly but to signal engine load, allowing for better control of fuel delivery. The conversation also touches on the role of exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) systems and the importance of measuring air mass for optimizing combustion efficiency and emissions control.
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FAQ

TL;DR: Diesel common-rail systems vary fuel pressure from 250–1500 bar [Elektroda, Michał Walczak, post #8251771]; "The flow meter allows the controller to determine the amount of exhaust gas" [Elektroda, zbyniuś, post #8251914] Mass-air-flow (MAF) data lets the ECU match fuel, EGR and boost for power, economy and emissions.

Why it matters: Accurate air-mass data prevents soot, limp-mode surprises and failed emission tests on modern diesels.

Quick Facts

• Stoichiometric diesel mix: approx. 15 kg air per 1 kg fuel [wopor, #8135974]. • Common-rail pressure window: 250–1500 bar [Elektroda, Michał Walczak, post #8251771] • Typical MAF failure can cut power by ≈30 % and trigger DTC P0101 (Bosch Handbook, 2018). • EGR rates: 5–40 % of intake flow in Euro 4/5 diesels [Bosch Handbook, 2018].

Why do modern diesel engines still use a mass-air-flow sensor?

The MAF gives the ECU real-time air-mass data. The controller then injects the exact fuel dose, sets boost and meters EGR. Without it, emissions rise and torque drops [Elektroda, Anonymous, post #8121197]

Is air flow in a diesel really constant?

No. Engine speed, altitude, boost and manifold fouling change the mass of air every cycle [Elektroda, ociz, post #8120668]

What does the throttle plate do on a diesel?

It briefly closes during shutdown to damp vibrations and creates slight vacuum to draw more EGR at idle; it does not set engine speed [Elektroda, Anonymous, post #8121197]

How can the ECU dose fuel if the MAF fails?

Fail-safe maps use manifold pressure (MAP) and speed to estimate load, but power may drop 20–40 % and smoke rises [Bosch Handbook, 2018].

How is EGR quantity controlled?

ECU subtracts fresh-air mass from total intake to compute exhaust-gas share, then positions the EGR valve accordingly [Elektroda, zbyniuś, post #8251914]

Can I simply delete the MAF and tune around it?

Possible on older SDI engines lacking EGR [Elektroda, tomek.kopiec, post #8120988] On Euro 4+ vehicles it will trigger fault codes and fail inspection (edge-case).

Why don't gasoline engines regulate speed only with fuel like diesels?

Gasoline needs near-stoichiometric mix for stable spark ignition; limiting air with a throttle maintains that ratio as fuel varies [robokop, #9816583].

Can I turbocharge a stock naturally aspirated engine?

Yes, but reduce compression or enrich mixture to avoid knock. Factory 2.0 L turbos run 8.5:1 compression at 2.5 bar boost [Elektroda, Anonymous, post #8124201]

How many injections can a diesel have per cycle?

Piezo injectors deliver up to five pulses each stroke for smoother combustion and lower NOx [wopor, #8135974].

What happens during a MAF sensor failure?

ECU logs P0101, switches to backup tables, limits rail pressure and may cap boost—drivers feel sluggish acceleration (edge-case) [Bosch Handbook, 2018].

How do I test a diesel MAF quickly?

  1. Read live MAF grams/second at idle; expect 8–12 g/s on a 2 L engine.
  2. Snap throttle; flow should jump above 80 g/s.
  3. Unplug sensor; if value freezes or engine stalls, wiring or sensor is faulty (How-To).

Do diesels use lambda sensors?

Yes in Euro 5+ models for DPF regeneration and fine mixture feedback, but corrections are smaller than in gasoline engines [Bosch Handbook, 2018].
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