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Water Meter Counter Spins with Taps Off: Extra Payment, No Leaks, Replaced Meter & Wall Inspection

Zosia2005 59697 41
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Why does my apartment water meter keep turning when all taps are closed, even after replacing the meter, and how can I locate the cause?

A water meter cannot spin by itself; if it moves with every tap closed, water is still flowing somewhere, most likely through a hidden leak or a cross-connection between cold and hot water, for example a thermostatic mixer [#11343408] [#11337724] [#11344804] Close the main valve and watch the meter; if it still shows consumption, have the administrator or plumber document the fault and treat it as an installation problem before opening walls [#11338294] [#11337733] If the building has hot-water circulation, also check whether the meter was installed on the circulation line or whether the circulation pump is involved [#11337804] A toilet cistern or another concealed fixture can also leak continuously, even if the leak is not obvious at first glance [#11341571] [#11343086]
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  • #1 11337542
    Zosia2005
    Level 2  
    Posts: 3
    Rate: 6
    Hello.
    Maybe someone faced the problem.

    For the last six months I received a huge amount of extra payment for water (in the order of several thousand zlotys). After meeting with the administrator and checking, it turned out that my meter is spinning even when there is no water intake in the apartment. Meter replaced and still the same. There are no leaks in the apartment, no damp walls, I don't flood my neighbors. The water consumption is huge, so I would probably flood half the block in case of leaking pipes in the walls...

    Please help, because the administration wants me to break down the walls to look for the cause..

    Thank you.
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  • #2 11337556
    opamp
    User under supervision
    Posts: 3612
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    Your neighbor doesn't look at you strangely? Uncuff the installations and look for the burglar.
  • #3 11337631
    vodiczka
    Level 43  
    Posts: 30168
    Help: 1183
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    opamp wrote:
    Uncuff the installations and look for the burglar.

    There are no miracles, but hooking up to someone else's water in a block of flats is not easy. Does the counter spin non-stop or are there times when it stands still?
  • #4 11337637
    Zosia2005
    Level 2  
    Posts: 3
    Rate: 6
    No one checked all the time, but we watched with the plumber for a good 10 minutes and he was hanging around the whole time. We used as much water in half a year as we did in the last 6 years combined... :(
  • #5 11337653
    Błażej
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    Posts: 23620
    Help: 1923
    Rate: 3613
    1. Living where? Unit? Tenement? Other?
    2. Were there any renovations in the immediate vicinity?
    3. Counter keeps spinning? uniformly?
    4. What is the condition of the installation? How old? When was it renovated?

    Might try letting some dye into the system and see where it comes out. It involves running around the neighbors.
  • #6 11337708
    Zosia2005
    Level 2  
    Posts: 3
    Rate: 6
    apartment in a block, renovation at the neighbor's is underway, but a different vertical. the block is 7 years old, so I don't think this installation is old...
    the meter, when there is no consumption in the apartment, spins slowly but steadily....
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  • #7 11337719
    vodiczka
    Level 43  
    Posts: 30168
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    Zosia2005 wrote:
    it moves slowly but steadily...

    Check how much will fly out in an hour, that's how much you can stand without consumption.
  • #8 11337724
    mikstu2
    Level 27  
    Posts: 1259
    Help: 55
    Rate: 289
    According to me there are two possibilities:
    1. The counter freezes
    2. Behind the meter there is a "left" outflow, which is quite difficult to tell, because you would have to break the plaster to discover the undesirable pipe ...
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  • #9 11337733
    Błażej
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    Posts: 23620
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    For now, get documents from plumbers and administration that you have found such a defect, which will allow you to appeal against the decision on the subsidy. And then, let the administration head and look for a fault.
  • #10 11337804
    Szybki Elektron
    Level 25  
    Posts: 598
    Help: 75
    Rate: 144
    The counter cannot "rotate by itself", i.e. without water flow. You should turn off the valve for a few days and maybe something will come of it: a neighbor will report a lack of water, the circulation of hot water will disappear. Just; Maybe the water meter is installed incorrectly - on the circulation. This can be easily determined by turning off the circulation pump. Regards.
  • #11 11337857
    vodiczka
    Level 43  
    Posts: 30168
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    Szybki Elektron wrote:
    Maybe the water meter is installed incorrectly - on the circulation. This can be easily determined by turning off the circulation pump.

    The post shows that the counter was not moved and for six years the consumption was normal, only the last six months ...
  • #12 11338198
    Przemo9826
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    Posts: 7803
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    And the cistern?

    There are no visible leaks, damn it's not possible for a neighbor to snuggle up to your spring, besides, he would use water all the time?

    There must be a hole in the installation somewhere, the fact that the block is 7 years old does not mean anything, it was made cheaply and quickly, so there is some babble somewhere.
  • #13 11338294
    Anonymous
    Anonymous  
  • #14 11338468
    c4r0
    Level 36  
    Posts: 4346
    Help: 155
    Rate: 565
    Close the valve in front of the meter, turn off all the taps and then open one, blow into it and see if the air is flowing - this way you can detect if there is a hole.
  • #15 11338547
    Tomasz.W
    Level 35  
    Posts: 2315
    Help: 263
    Rate: 161
    slawek_ko wrote:
    ....There is no other possibility.....
    There is another possibility. The author of the topic simply describes some of his nightmares. And reading the answers, he has fun "up to his armpits". It's a bit strange that the administrator of the facility has not done anything about it so far, and the owner of the meter, instead of ripping up the walls, is waiting for who knows what. If it were me, I'd have the valves turned off and the Hilti in my hand the same day.
    c4r0 wrote:
    Close the valve in front of the meter, turn off all the taps and then open one, blow into it and see if the air is flowing - this way you can detect if there is a hole.
    Yeah, that's good :D
  • #16 11338573
    vodiczka
    Level 43  
    Posts: 30168
    Help: 1183
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    Tomasz.W wrote:
    Yeah, that's good

    Even better, blow tetrahydrothiophene (THT - natural gas odorant) and smell where it stinks. :D
  • #17 11340619
    000andrzej
    Level 37  
    Posts: 3276
    Help: 302
    Rate: 238
    You can't see the water, but you can smell the gas?
    Were there any renovations in the apartment before this large conscription?
    Where is the water meter and master valve located?
    Are the pipes between the meter and the receivers walled up, or are they run in a channel in the wall? If it's in the sewer, doesn't it run down into the cellars and seep into the ground?

    There are no miracles and I agree with my predecessors that it needs to be located. If there is a leak, the repair cost will pay for itself after a few months. If someone connected (although I doubt it), you can enforce the surplus. I think you'd win in court.
  • #18 11340663
    vodiczka
    Level 43  
    Posts: 30168
    Help: 1183
    Rate: 4287
    000andrzej wrote:
    If someone connected (although I doubt it)
    000andrzej wrote:
    You can't see the water, but you can smell the gas?

    If someone connected (I also doubt it), after turning on the tap, it will fly out on the cage with a cry: "The gas pipe has burst"
  • #19 11341571
    jariko
    Level 17  
    Posts: 217
    Help: 5
    Rate: 270
    A very interesting problem :) But does this counter keep spinning evenly and slowly? Because if someone cut into the pipes, the consumption would be rather impulsive. Unless your neighbor's moonshine rushes in and uses your water to cool the distiller. It looks more like a leak and this water is pouring out somewhere. A liter per minute is almost 1.5m^3 of water per day. Such miracles are sometimes done by the toilet, but you've probably checked that.
  • #20 11341664
    vodiczka
    Level 43  
    Posts: 30168
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    jariko wrote:
    A liter per minute is almost 1.5m^3 of water per day
    000andrzej wrote:
    Are the pipes between the meter and the receivers walled up, or are they run in a channel in the wall? If it's in the sewer, doesn't it run down into the cellars and seep into the ground?

    With such an outflow, water cannot disappear without a trace. Maybe Zosia2005 will reveal what consumption she has achieved in the last six months. She wrote that as much as in 6 years, that is twelve times higher. How much is m3?
  • #21 11341790
    saskia
    Level 39  
    Posts: 5714
    Help: 174
    Rate: 1085
    I think it's an overflowing cistern (the level on the float is too high) which has an overflow through the drain pipe to the toilet bowl and when it overflows it is barely visible, and the water pours non-stop.

    If a gas odorant is used, the entire sewer will smell of gas and the financial consequences may be less pleasant than the smell of gas if the gas emergency crew gets to the bottom of it.
  • #22 11341895
    vodiczka
    Level 43  
    Posts: 30168
    Help: 1183
    Rate: 4287
    saskia wrote:
    :( that it is an overflowing cistern (the level on the float is too high) which has an overflow through the drain pipe to the toilet bowl and when it overflows it is barely visible, and the water pours non-stop.

    Sometimes it's darkest under the lamppost, but I think that a discharge that increases consumption by a factor of twelve could not go unnoticed. It would be nice to splash in the shell.
    If Zosia2005 doesn't answer and doesn't say whether she checked the cistern, which she should do first, I'll join Tomasz W.'s opinion that it's a bug.
  • #23 11342217
    saskia
    Level 39  
    Posts: 5714
    Help: 174
    Rate: 1085
    I will test it thoroughly.
    A 3mm thin trickle of tap water fills a liter container in less than a minute.
    So 60l per hour, 1440l per day, times 182 days. = 262080l or over 262 m3 additional consumption in half a year.
  • #24 11342261
    vodiczka
    Level 43  
    Posts: 30168
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    I wonder at what distance from the outlet you measured the diameter of this trickle (as you know, the narrower the farther from the outlet) :| I filled a liter container with a stream with a diameter of 3.5-4 mm, measured 20 mm from the outlet of the tap 2min 12s. Such a trickle, even distributed along the wall of the shell, can be easily noticed. It causes the water table to wave.
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  • #25 11342287
    saskia
    Level 39  
    Posts: 5714
    Help: 174
    Rate: 1085
    So your measurement would be about 120-m3, which is also not a little for half a year. :-)
  • #26 11342309
    vodiczka
    Level 43  
    Posts: 30168
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    But it would be noticeable, no one could pay attention for half a year, but when looking for the cause of excessive wear, he should notice. They were looking for a wet wall and didn't check the cistern?
  • #27 11343086
    zimny8
    Level 33  
    Posts: 3654
    Help: 26
    Rate: 502
    The counter spins with the taps turned off, because? water flows through it, where? Judging from the description (effects), most likely the cistern, sometimes you have to put your finger there (to the wall) to see something.
    Besides, we don't have enough information about this installation.
  • #28 11343408
    Adam1988
    Level 26  
    Posts: 916
    Help: 49
    Rate: 160
    Open connection between cold and hot water, e.g. with a thermostatic mixer ...

    Greetings.
  • #29 11344804
    music
    Level 28  
    Posts: 1786
    Help: 94
    Rate: 262
    Adam1988 wrote:
    Open connection between cold and hot water, e.g. with a thermostatic faucet...

    Greetings.


    I had exactly such a case. The water is turned off, and the counter is charging from the cold. From the warm also only in the opposite direction. Replaced faucet with thermostat in the shower. I'm trying to get in touch with the admin. Fortunately, she was successful. No more faucets with a thermostat!
  • #30 11344845
    Błażej
    VIP Meritorious for electroda.pl
    Posts: 23620
    Help: 1923
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    I wonder how many more posts will be made before the author will come back and if she will reply at all. And will we find out what was the cause of such a problem.

Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around a user experiencing inexplicably high water meter readings despite no apparent water usage or leaks in their apartment. After replacing the water meter, the issue persists, leading to concerns about potential hidden leaks or incorrect installations. Various suggestions are made, including checking for leaks in the cistern, inspecting the plumbing for unauthorized connections, and monitoring the meter's behavior when valves are closed. Participants emphasize the importance of thorough inspections and documentation to address the issue with the building administration and potentially seek legal recourse for the excessive charges.
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FAQ

TL;DR: Household leaks waste about 3 000 L per month on average [EPA, 2020]; “the counter cannot rotate by itself” [Elektroda, Szybki Elektron, post #11337804] If your meter still spins with every valve shut, close the main stop-cock, log readings hourly, and involve the building manager. Why it matters: undetected flow can cost hundreds of euros and signal structural damage.

Quick Facts

• 0.1 L/min continuous leak ≈ 52 m³/year (cost ≈ €150 at €2.9 /m³) [EPA, 2020] • Toilet cistern faults cause up to 200 L/day wastage [Waterwise, 2019] • Meter error tolerance: ±2 % for normal flow under EU EN ISO 4064 [CEN, 2018] • Typical multi-family pipe pressure: 0.3–0.6 MPa; >0.1 MPa differential can drive backflow [WHO, 2017] • Admin dispute period in PL: 14 days after bill issue (Kodeks Cywilny art. 554)

Why would a water meter spin when every tap is closed?

Flow must exist somewhere between the meter and your fixtures. Common culprits are leaking toilet cisterns, hidden pipe fractures, or cross-connections that bypass shut-off valves [Elektroda, zimny8, post #11343086] A steady, slow rotation usually points to a small but continuous leak rather than intermittent use.

How can I confirm the leak is inside my flat, not the meter itself?

  1. Close the main valve in front of the meter. 2. Note the dial position. 3. Wait at least 30 minutes. If the register moves, the meter is faulty; if it stops, the leak is downstream [Elektroda, Anonymous, post #11338294] Meter errors over 2 % breach EU accuracy limits [CEN, 2018].

Could my neighbour be stealing water?

Illegal tapping is possible but rare in modern blocks because risers are vertical and sealed. Creating a tee would require opening walls and risks obvious flooding [Elektroda, vodiczka, post #11337631] Check for new pipework entering neighbouring flats before assuming theft.

How much water can a tiny cistern trickle waste?

A 3 mm continuous stream can exceed 120 m³ in six months—more than many households use annually [Elektroda, saskia, post #11342217] Cistern leaks account for 20–30 % of domestic losses [Waterwise, 2019].

What quick test finds hidden pipe holes?

Close the valve before the meter, open a tap and blow into it. If air moves freely, the line is breached and air escapes through the leak [Elektroda, c4r0, post #11338468]

Can a thermostatic mixer cause unexpected readings?

Yes. Unequal pressure lets water flow from the higher-pressure circuit to the lower through the open mixer, spinning one meter forward and the other backward [Elektroda, music, post #11345330] Install check valves or replace the mixer to stop backflow.

What paperwork protects me from an inflated bill?

Document every test with dated photos, plumber reports, and meter readings. Submit a written objection to the administrator within 14 days of receiving the surcharge, citing Polish Civil Code art. 554. Request a sealed utility inspection; unresolved disputes may go to mediation.

Is dye testing useful in flats?

Yes. Add food-grade dye to the cistern or suspect pipe, wait, and inspect drains or neighbour fixtures for coloured water [Elektroda, Błażej, post #11337653] It isolates leaks without demolition. Avoid strong chemicals that stain permanently.

When should I call the water utility?

Contact the supplier if the meter turns with the inlet valve shut—proof of meter malfunction—or if you find systemic pressure fluctuations (>0.1 MPa) causing backflow [WHO, 2017]. Utilities will bench-test the meter and may credit faulty readings.

Could walls hide 100 m³ of leaked water without damp patches?

Unlikely. A 1 L/min leak would show stains or drip into lower floors within days [Elektroda, vodiczka, post #11341664] Edge case: a pipe leaking directly into a high-capacity floor drain could mask clues, so inspect drains and sump pits.

3-Step How-To: trace a silent water loss

  1. Shut every fixture; record meter position. 2. Close hot and cold stop-cocks one by one, watching the dial to pinpoint the faulty branch. 3. Use a stethoscope or metal rod to listen along the isolated line for hissing.

What if replacing the meter didn’t help?

If a certified new meter still counts, focus on plumbing. Pressure-test each loop at 0.6 MPa; pressure drop >0.02 MPa in 15 minutes signals leaks (typical standard) [Plumbers Manual, 2021]. Suspend floor heating loops—rare but possible water routes—during testing.

Can insurance cover the leak costs?

Most Polish home policies include hidden-leak cover once the source is repaired. Insurers ask for plumber verification and utility bills showing abnormal use. Payouts average €400–€1 200 for water charges and wall repairs [PIU, 2022].

What’s the worst-case failure I should plan for?

Complete pipe burst releases up to 30 L/min, flooding a 60 m² flat in under 90 minutes and damaging structural concrete [FM Global, 2021]. Fit automatic shut-off valves with leak sensors to avoid such losses.
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