Voltage fluctuations in the 240V network and acceptable standards

From this topic I conclude something else:
http://www.wykop.pl/ramka/97466/d Why-w-garówkaku-bylo-220v-jest-230v-i-bedzie-240v/

No, but something else was mentioned a moment ago.

WojcikW wrote:

Only the reduction of losses applies to transmission over long distances where the voltage is of the order of e.g. 110kV, 220kV. Transferring this to a low-voltage network and writing that the distributor raises the voltage by several volts for this purpose is simply ridiculous. Something like this could only come up with a layman who did not know the realities. On the other hand, the change in regulations certainly resulted in large savings. In the past it was valid for 220V ? 5%, today 230V ? 10% and for a limited time 230V + 10% -15%. The consequence of this provision is that the consumers closer to the transformer have a much higher voltage than the rated voltage, and the latter ones furthest from the transformer have low voltage with large fluctuations.

Unfortunately, this is how it is in the real world, energy companies live here like "butter donuts", they have won the position of a strong player in legal regulations in which a single customer can do nothing - he is in an offside position. For me, the drops reach 180V on the plot, I have reported many times, unfortunately an investment in the form of transformer replacement is required (in order not to do this, it is said that it cannot be done because the line is too weak, in the neighboring town, on the occasion of a construction investment 20 years ago on the old one of the line, the transformer was replaced with several times larger and works to this day without any side effects - maybe except that during off-peak hours the transformer itself consumes more energy from connected customers).

jarek7714 wrote:

off-peak hours alone the transformer draws more energy from connected clients ).

Maybe a colleague explain how it happens that the transformer takes energy from customers? I understand that you produce this energy, the transformer consumes it and the supplier does not pay for it. Is how ???

And it's alone. Such a smart beast! Still charges consumption

I think it was supposed to be a transformer that gets energy for connected clients.

zbich70 wrote:

Maybe a colleague explain how it happens that the transformer takes energy from customers? I understand that you produce this energy, the transformer consumes it and the supplier does not pay for it. Is how ???

Honestly, I did not expect such a comment on such a forum. Let me explain: a voltage of 15kV is supplied to the network over the last mile, the transformer changes it to 400V with a certain efficiency (never 100%, the newer the devices are, the lower the losses are), working in a continuous operation mode with a dozen or so loads beyond the peak energy consumption is very small, and a large unit consumes x times more energy in proportion to its own work. Therefore, today, in places where the grid is professionally modernized, customers do not have a contracted high energy consumption, instead of a 1-large device, several small ones are used. If someone wants to experiment, please connect a small home transformer power supply (say 230 / 12V) to the energy meter and see how it behaves when it works without connected devices.

jarek7714 wrote:

Therefore, today, in places where the grid is professionally modernized, customers do not have a contracted high energy consumption, instead of a 1-large device, several small ones are used.

So, customers supplied from unprofessionally upgraded or modernized networks have "contracted" energy consumption (whatever that means)?

PS. A friend heard that they were calling somewhere - but it is in another church.

jarek7714 wrote:

Let me explain: a voltage of 15kV is supplied to the network over the last mile, the transformer changes it to 400V with a certain efficiency (never 100%, the newer the devices are, the lower the losses are), working in a continuous operation mode with a dozen or so loads beyond the peak energy consumption is very small, and a large unit consumes x times more energy in proportion to its own work. Therefore, today, in places where the grid is professionally modernized, customers do not have a contracted high energy consumption, instead of a 1-large device, several small ones are used. If someone wants to experiment, please connect a small home transformer power supply (say 230 / 12V) to the energy meter and see how it behaves when it works without connected devices.

Dude, the efficiency of power transformers is one thing, an electrician should know this value by heart, even from school. On the other hand, toys from power supplies are the latter. And please do not confuse one with the other because you are being childish.

retrofood wrote:

And please do not confuse one with the other because you are being childish.

A friend probably heard that some plants pay for losses "in copper" and "in iron" and transferred it to all ...

I am not even going to quote in the comments-żal.pl. Science does not stand still (it is not enough to hammer out the rules of the canons of physics once, and they also change), the efficiency and construction of transformers in the Gierek era were different than today. Unfortunately, many power lines from that era have not been modernized to this day. In real life there is no lossless energy supply, they are and will be, it is included in the total costs.

jarek7714 wrote:

In real life there is no lossless energy supply, they are and will be, it is included in the total costs.

We know that.
The question is what's new my colleague wants to bring with his posts.

zbich70 wrote:

The question is what's new my colleague wants to bring with his posts.

Well, that @aksel_pl has no chance against a large energy company. I have been using the grid in Łódź on a permanent basis and for over 10 years I have had a modernized electrical installation providing low voltage to a 4-story building and everything replaced in the building itself (there are wires to the apartment) 3x4mm / kw) and despite the very large and variable energy consumption, the voltage drops are very small. Until the regulations are adopted by the EU, it is difficult to count on any positive changes - energy companies are in a privileged position in relation to the client in Poland and no one will force them to do anything.

jarek7714 wrote:

everything is replaced in the building itself (3x4mm / kw wires are laid to the apartment) and despite a very large and variable energy consumption, voltage drops are very small.

Has the energy supplier replaced the wires in the building and to the apartment?
Can the coal supplier spill it in the yard or does he have to grab the shovel and throw it into the basement? Maybe even to the stove?

zbich70 wrote:

Has the energy supplier replaced the wires in the building and to the apartment?
Can the coal supplier spill it in the yard or does he have to grab the shovel and throw it into the basement? Maybe even to the stove?

The installation in the building was replaced by the real estate administrator in consultation with ZE - during the modernization of the low voltage power supply across the street (you have to think cheaper in the package). I explain for the future - I am responsible for what I have in my apartment and I bear the costs myself (the coal supplier does not light me up ).

jarek7714 wrote:

The property administrator replaced the installation in the building.

So we are talking about a receiving installation, not a power supply network!
I still expect that my colleague will support his "butter donuts" with evidence.

Bronek22 wrote:

aksel_pl wrote:

Can I pick it up with an oscilloscope?

Yes and no. The oscilloscope has the ability to show, but you can't hunt it down

You hunt.

Tektronix from the shelf more PRO with a hard drive for the night into the socket, or for 2 full days, a measurement report to the expert and insurer with the electricity bill together with the bill for burnt equipment and they will not evade.

Piotr1971 wrote:

Tektronix from the shelf more PRO with a hard drive for the night into the socket, or for 2 full days, a measurement report to the expert and insurer with the electricity bill together with the bill for burnt equipment and they will not evade.

Sorry, but you will "hunt" what is happening in the socket . If you want to pursue a supplier, you must install your toys on the edge of ownership. When giving such advice, it would be worth bearing in mind ...

That's right - but at least there will be a starting point, since the DOM has an individual connection.

On the other hand - you can even document anyway, more modern meters have registered indications and you can reliably get the peak power consumption in a given period of the last few days.

Anyway, it's worth a try - if they see that you have determination, they will improve soon, or they will cover some of the losses, they have an insurer.

Piotr1971 wrote:

That's right - but at least there will be a starting point, since the DOM has an individual connection.

Well, so what? The socket is still outside the ownership limit. And the counter (the one recording miracles-wreaths) somewhere along the way. How do you want the supplier (not to mention his insurer) to prove that these chock-blocks are his fault?

If a colleague is determined to borrow such a thing, it used to cost 40,000 zlotys, today it probably costs 6,000 - 9,000 zlotys, probably for 200 or 300 zlotys you can rent them for a while.

The program on the oscilloscope rather reports the values above the designated ones, from what I remember, the tektronix I played with had such functions.

I assume that since a colleague wrote what he wrote on the forum, if he really cares, he will rent and check a machine with a disk and some intelligence or maybe export to a CSV file, and then you can have fun in Excel.
No, not from me - I don't have one, I also borrowed those a few years ago.

As for what then - well, then it remains to submit a letter to ZE and wait patiently, but in their place I would immediately correct the situation so as not to aggravate the matter.

Once, the insurer in a case known to me paid over PLN 200,000 to someone who got all computers and printers on fire. And there was no discussion, and no expertise was needed - 380V in the socket fried everything that was in the office. And no one looked at fault in the meter

Piotr1971 wrote:

Once, the insurer in a case known to me paid over PLN 200,000

Of course, based on the "razor" plugged into the socket ...

zbich70 wrote:

Piotr1971 wrote:

Once, the insurer in a case known to me paid over PLN 200,000

Of course, based on the "razor" plugged into the socket ...

No, under the Insurance Agreement.

There are doubts here, hence you can collect the evidence yourself, or find out for yourself that the problem lies in the low-quality components of the LED installation if nothing comes out.

And you, buddy, I understand you have a Miraculous Prescription, is this how you play Master of Cut Riposte?

I gave a patent for the measurement

- an oscilloscope with memory and a few functions, it is within a reasonable economic calculation
- the loan probably costs no more than PLN 200-300 for 2-3 days,
- voltage and its critical values can be measured first in the socket and then on the meter with a disconnected circuit at home (plugs can be unscrewed / turned off right behind the meter - who has what and what likes)

and I found out that someone has a Cut Riposte ..

As the inquirer has the purpose of asking on the forum, I answer, why push through - if I burned the razors for 10k PLN, I would listen to my advice immediately, at least for my own curiosity and in a few months again do not lose any equipment at home.

Piotr1971 wrote:

nor was any expertise needed - 380V in the socket had fried everything in the office.

380V in the socket did not have to be the fault of the energy supplier.

Generally, no one even came, and I was disgraced. I think it's a fight with windmills, so I'll spend the money and that's it. For this reason, I give up playing with them.

jojo95 wrote:

It is one thing to discover irregularities, the other is to prove that the fault is with the utility company. When writing an engineering thesis on the quality of electricity, I used an interesting recorder of voltage parameters from the network. It was the FLUKE VR1710. The evaluation of the parameters is based on the 50160 standard, which defines the permissible deviations, frequency, voltage and harmonic content.

I do not see any irregularities in the chart you provided.