Do Modern Steel Pipes Corrode Faster Than Older Ones? How to Prevent?

Good morning. I have a problem for which I cannot find an answer, and only the practice of a wider group of people empirically diagnosing the issue seems to be able to solve it.
This is a newly constructed installation made of steel pipes. I want to make one. However, there was concern. A friend of mine scared me that modern pipes corrode terribly. Apparently his neighbor made a steel installation and the rust is eating it right through. Could this be true? Are modern pipes of lower quality than those from 50-100 years ago and which are often still in operation today? But is it a myth, a bad game, bad execution, whatever?
How to avoid such a problem? Choose specific manufacturers, look at quality guarantees, type of alloy, buy thicker pipes, e.g. 3.6 mm?
Or maybe it`s just scares?
I would be grateful for opinions from people who may have some experience in this matter.

But what kind of installation? Water supply or central heating at home? Pipes should first of all be galvanized, as they are more resistant to corrosion. If it is to be a central heating system at home, the pipes will become clogged with scale before they rust.

Good point, I forgot! Sorry!
WHAT
You comforted me that it would grow over my head rather than rust away. I wouldn`t worry about it growing over, because I don`t want to pour tap water over it. I will collect rainwater, wait until it settles, then pour clean water away. Are you saying @maurycy123 that there is nothing to worry about corrosion at all? Well, you can`t avoid air access in an open system.

The rusting of steel pipes is rather a myth. Galvanized steel pipes are protected against corrosion and will last a long time. You can go ahead and do it

glina77 wrote:

Good point, I forgot! Sorry!
WHAT
You comforted me that it would grow over my head rather than rust away. I wouldn`t worry about it growing over, because I don`t want to pour tap water over it. I will collect rainwater, wait until it settles, then pour clean water away. Are you saying @maurycy123 that there is nothing to worry about corrosion at all? Well, you can`t avoid air access in an open system.

I am not a specialist in this field. In my parents` 30-year-old house, the risers are still made of steel (and back then they used what was available). Only the radiator connectors (changed from cast iron to panel ones) and the furnace connection (from coal to gas) are made of copper. As for the air in the system, I wouldn`t worry about it (there will be much less oxygen). A pipe lying in the ground is additionally exposed to soil acidity. If the galvanizing is not damaged, there will be no rust. If the pipes are in the walls (floors), the humidity there is minimal. From the inside they will not corrode so quickly (minimal amount of oxygen). Good pipes will outlive you. I hope that someone else who has experience in installing central heating installations will comment. Personally (if I could afford it), I would install copper.

Do you want to make the entire installation from steel pipes? Or maybe it is enough to run the risers with steel only to the distributors? It depends on what kind of building you have and where you can run the pipes.
And back to pipes as a material. You have to be careful about the thickness of the walls, because there are some that when the thread is cut, the thread remains in the threading machine... This is what pipes are made now; to make more from less.

I was considering copper, but it is three times more expensive and so... snobbish - when I go to my plot there is a sign: "HAVE COPPER". Please understand me - (copper or to be, that is the question) - he jokes.
Coming back. Gentlemen! Galvanized... after all, galvanization goes to waste with pipes above 60 degrees.
Today is the kingdom of crap and trash. Controlled obsolescence and the power of economics over technical satisfaction and reliability. So the fact that old installations are functioning is no argument. A friend of mine scared me with new central heating installations made of steel. I know that I want to take some preventive steps, but what? E.g. pipe thickness. The standard is probably 2.9 mm. And I would increase the thickness of the pipe, e.g. to 3.6. The price goes up a bit. Is there any point? Or maybe look at the manufacturer and not buy the cheapest steel?

Thanks for showing interest

Added after 6 [minutes]:

Romulus7874 , that`s right, you wrote a moment before me.
Thickness I have already written about it. What?
Building.
Basement, ground floor and first floor. Boiler room in the basement, solid fuel boiler. Radiator and underfloor heating. I would run the installations vertically, with distribution in the floor of the first floor and then down to the basement.
Romulus7874 , you write, verticals in steel, and what then? Plastics, PEX? The water will boil and may leak. I was thinking about it, I prefer all steel. Only the floor heating system is made of plastic, but it comes from a manifold and has a three-way valve.

glina77 wrote:

After all, zinc goes to waste with pipes above 60 degrees.

And why is that? Does zinc melt at this temperature - where did you get this information?
You can even add ordinary steel pipes and properly prepared water with additives (cheaply) and such an installation will outlive you.

As for galvanizing corrosion piping-installations-zinc-for-corrosion
I have no reservations about using PeX for distributors. Besides, I haven`t heard or seen Pex melted by boiling. Rather, care should be taken to prevent boiling. As for thickness, I won`t tell you what wall thickness I used. I rejected the thinnest; if you do a reconnaissance of the warehouses, you will see and compare.

Galvanized pipe, probably DN50, used for cold drinking water. It lasted probably 15-20 years. Tiny holes began to appear - as if someone was piercing them with a thin needle. It looked like electrochemical corrosion, the pipe was thick and not corroded when cut, and mini holes appeared.

Recently, there has been a problem with the 6 or 8-year-old copper installation for hot water.
The pipe looks normal, there are holes - pits as thick as a needle. It looks like the material they were made from was contaminated.
The problem is big because the building is almost new, there are pipes in the floor and walls, and from time to time there is a problem because the meter is spinning but there is no visible leak. They locate leaks using a thermal imaging camera.

Steel pipes that are black on the inside almost never rot. The biggest problem is flooding from the outside, it will rust the fastest from the outside, e.g. on the slide where water gets in and it stays there for a long time - just like with sheet metal in cars.

brofran wrote:

glina77 wrote:

After all, zinc goes to waste with pipes above 60 degrees.

And why is that? Does zinc melt at this temperature - where did you get this information?
You can even add ordinary steel pipes and properly prepared water with additives (cheaply) and such an installation will outlive you.

Well, the link above just fell out of heaven.

Quote:

Limit temperature
The tests carried out on galvanized steel pipes show that at temperatures up to 50ºC, zinc forms a layer on the inner surface of the pipe which, by sticking to the metal, has a protective effect against corrosion. Above a water temperature of 55ºC, the zinc layer detaches and becomes loose and granular, which reduces the protection of steel against corrosion. At a temperature of 60-70ºC, the polarity changes, which weakens the protective zinc coating. Carbon steel covered with a layer of zinc and galvanized connectors do not guarantee adequate durability of the installations.

So galvanized, it seems, should not be used for CO. For hot water at all.

So I would rather use thicker black pipes, but the question is whether different manufacturers have different steel quality.

wowka wrote:

Galvanized pipe, probably DN50, used for cold drinking water. It lasted probably 15-20 years. Tiny holes started to appear

Exactly. Maybe something in the structure of the steel. How to avoid such problems? Minimize the risk?

Tinned steel should not be used for central heating.
Instead of investing in a steel installation (the best one is welded and made of seamless pipes - much better quality), do it in PP stabi (those with an aluminum insert) and for the money you save, buy an emergency boiler cooling system (protection against boiling) for PLN 600-800.
As for this boiling, it is worth investing PLN 70-80 in a draft regulator, which will protect against this eventuality in most cases.

Everything I have is made from regular nibs and it has been holding up for 10 years. I think a year ago I had a slight drip coming from the riser, but it was probably some old pipe. I will add that most of the pipes were "recycled". At this point, it`s best to pay a little extra for better risers (and paint them) and use PEX to cover the rest.

In my case, ordinary thick-walled steel pipes in the risers have been standing for over 24 years, and it was supposed to be a makeshift solution for 2 years ;]. Plus it`s welded. At this time, there are already 4 boilers (the first one was 15 years old, the next 2 are better left unmentioned, the last one is made of stainless steel) 2, a stove, of course, after fighting with the boilers, a used old cast iron one was bought, probably from 1987. I don`t want to scare you, but the pipes are probably the smallest problem exactly. See how many old drinking water pipes are buried in the ground and they will get clogged sooner than corrosion will eat them up.

Galvanization - it is not suitable for central heating, because central heating pipes are welded and hot-bent, and there is no zinc on the weld and in places heated with a torch, or it is damaged and corrodes in that place. If galvanized, the pipes must be fully screwed.

Once you have completed the installation, no matter what it is made of, do not forget to add a corrosion inhibitor - e.g. 1 liter should be enough for the entire installation and protects against corrosion and scale for years.

I have also been using a corrosion inhibitor for several years. For new and renovated installations - Sentinel x100.

I live in an old house. The utility water installation was galvanized steel. It is difficult to determine the age. I replaced it because the hot water pipes were "overgrown". Nothing was leaking.
The heating installation is made of black steel. The old boiler was from 1983. just like radiators. The age of the installation can be concluded from this.
The system is closed with an expansion tank. 3/4 inch main pipes and 1/2 inch radiator threads.
I modified the installations (new boiler, new radiators in a different place). I cut part of the installation and it turned out that the pipes were in good condition. They were seamed and seamless. The installer grabbed everything he twisted... Everything was threaded. There was a black coating inside the pipes. Most pipes are insulated (glass wool wrapped in cardboard). After removing the insulation, black steel. No signs of corrosion.
I used all the "old" pipes, including elbows, tees, etc., to modify the installation.

After three years, nothing happens with the installation.
I then flooded the system with tap water. For the skeptics, I would like to add that during the kitchen renovation this year, I removed the radiator (shut-off valves). After unscrewing the radiator, clean water flowed out. No slime, discoloration or rusty particles. The smell wasn`t pleasant, but that`s not the point.

Galvanized steel pipes in the heating system, one of the forum members is right. They are not suitable! I don`t know if this is included in the national regulations in Poland, but the Danish guidelines for the modernization of installations are clear. Galvanized pipes and fittings are not allowed in the home heating system. The outside of the pipes should be protected against corrosion (painted or externally galvanized), and if not, they must be thermally insulated.
I refer you to Google if anyone asks why?

Just to excite the "plastic" supporters...
Personally, I believe that there is no clear answer regarding the choice of materials for installations. If someone hides pipes with connectors in screeds or under plaster, I laugh stupidly...! Steel, copper or plastics have their uses.
Well, if someone has installations under the ceiling in a basement or room. economic situation, I can`t imagine "laces" made of soft plastic pipes there. Aesthetically, a steel or copper pipe with a straight run on two hooks looks better. But if we pack such pipes into the wall, unfortunately, there is always a risk of leaks at the joints and we need to take into account "available" places for installation when building the house.
Another thing is new buildings. Few modern home designers take into account installations. All pipes, cables and ventilation are installed under the cement screed and covered with the floor. For such architectural challenges, PEX pipes and other materials are the only logical and normal solution for a water and sewage installer. That is, an installation distributor in a cabinet and a direct connection there (without elbows and connectors) to every point in the building. The service life of the installation is usually provided by the manufacturer of pipes and fittings. 10, 15 or 20 years. After this date, the warranty expires and if it leaks, it must be replaced at your own expense.

I am rather a classic when it comes to finding solutions for construction. I always encourage you to use proven and simple things. If possible.

Coming back to the heating system made of black steel pipes, I recommend it. It has worked well and for over 100 years, few users have complained... I would rather write that I am surprised when I see a 40-year-old or older woman gravity installation with a coal-fired boiler (the second one, because the first one is leaking) and the investor`s dilemma... It needs to be modernized, but... the old heating works well! (...) And the neighbor replaced it with a modern one and is complaining.

Let`s take a look at the history. I think it`s about 20 years ago. New technologies came from the West. Thermal modernization of buildings, three-layer walls and similar. Copper and plastic pipes also arrived. There have been setbacks and disappointments over the years.
Now times have changed. The customer is always right! If you want copper, please. One meter times the price and that`s it! PEX, PE or ALU-PEX pipes and others. No problem. Everything is on sale! We will import from China. The question is how many meters... The store employee says that there is a cheaper equivalent of the product in stock. Cool!
The only question is whether the customer knows exactly what he is buying?
There are appropriate standards allowing the use of pipes, connectors, fittings and the like. There are domestic and foreign standards. The same applies to a well-known manufacturer of modern PEX pipes and another manufacturer, e.g. a steelworks that has been drawing steel pipes for 100 years.
We have structural pipes in the country. They look strikingly like water pipes. The price is also attractive. But another manufacturer makes pipes according to DIN standards and these, in turn, are not construction standards, but only such standards can be used for water or gas.
I recommend looking for galvanized steel pipes for fire protection installations. They are not cheap, but we will pay the same for galvanized pipes for drinking water or black pipes for the heating system.

I will no longer bore you with the fact that every heating or utility water installation should be designed and adapted to the recipient`s requirements. Let me just mention that plastic pipes do not like pressure, high temperatures and UV rays. Even a good plastic pipe will corrode in the same way as a steel pipe in water after two years in the sun.
Copper pipes, on the other hand, do not like chemicals and electricity. They also corrode. Moreover, "sharp" copper elbows may wash out even after a few years if the installation is not done properly.

Steel, on the other hand, has proven itself in installations the longest. It is true that sometimes a leak in an elbow or weld will wet the floor, but it can be repaired even in old pipes.
We know the lifespan of the installation. No special processing equipment is needed. Someone may say that such an installation is time-consuming and requires a specialist. Of course, there are arguments for and against... No matter how you judge it, steel installations "forgive" the most installation errors... You can always cut something out, thread it and modernize it. Plastic holds together after a few years, but it is unlikely to be modernized. If you move it in one place once, it will melt completely.

However, steel installation is not suitable everywhere.
If it is possible to do this, at least partially, I recommend it. But if someone wants to hide it all under screeds, I advise against it.

Jamesbond664478 wrote:

The rusting of steel pipes is rather a myth. Galvanized steel pipes are protected against corrosion and will last a long time. You can go ahead and do it

and not necessarily. It was rusty in my apartment. although maybe it just wasn`t galvanized We were even going to replace it, but my father came, cleaned it and sprayed it with some nanoprotech or something (I don`t remember the exact name, but I think it was it) and now it`s even cool.
Maybe instead of worrying, it`s better to actually spray something and have peace of mind?

Steel central heating pipes will be replaced in my friend`s apartment, the building is from the 1960s and the installation is pristine, galvanized pipes were not used for central heating installations back then, they could theoretically be replaced, but the entire installation is being replaced. Make installations from non-galvanized steel pipes (if possible, weld the installation, you can use gas), there will be no problems for the next 50 years or more. The problem is that the installation in copper will be installed by a "layman", while in steel, and welded, an amateur will probably not be able to do it without the appropriate tools. The previous installation at home was made of steel (gravity, threaded connections) and after 35 years I cut healthy pipes and replaced them with copper when replacing the furnace and radiators with new ones.

glina77 wrote:

I was considering copper, but it is 3 times more expensive

Have you already checked the rates for welded steel installations in your area? Economics is inexorable and the market chooses optimally priced solutions. That is why today in Poland the following technologies are chosen:
1) Welded polypropylene pipes for water supply installation
2) For central heating installations with a solid fuel boiler - copper pipes
3) For central heating installations with a boiler without the risk of boiling - PEX.

Today, steel pipes make economic sense only in installations with high resistance to mechanical damage. Staircases of multi-family buildings, schools, prisons, etc.

A dozen or so years ago, I poured oil into the central heating installation, which is used for cooling during rolling and is mixed with water. I poured a liter into about 100 liters of water.
It used to be called a drill.
The main goal was to improve gravity flow in one radiator.
It fulfilled its function and also protected against corrosion and the steel pipes inside look better than new ones.

Recently, I made central heating installations using pressed galvanized steel pipes and it was much cheaper than using copper because there were many verticals and horizontals with a diameter of 28 mm.
Hardly anyone will do a welded installation for you and it will probably be expensive.

I have a 40-year-old steel gravity installation. Only the radiator valves were sweating, the rest was fine. I can also recommend steel.

Another advantage is that with well-made installation slopes, there is no need to bleed air in an open installation.
Additionally, cast iron radiators release heat mainly through radiation and slightly through convection, which makes them much more friendly to allergy sufferers like me - there is not as much dust rising.

I have a couple of inserts in the central heating installation made of copper, a rather recent modification, and I am wondering whether to replace them with steel ones - so that the electrochemical corrosion does not damage the steel? Can I pour in some coolant or other corrosion inhibitor?

In the family house there is an entirely copper installation (closed circuit), and nothing has happened to it, but it transmits sounds much more than any other, especially the noise of the circulation pump, which is difficult to bear at the beginning when I arrive there .

If I were to do the installation, if the cost was bearable I would do all steel again with cast iron radiators.

Hello. I have a problem with my central heating installation. Well, I have more water in the open central heating system, which manifests itself in the form of constant dripping from the expansion tank through the overflow pipe. This is a problem because the overflow pipe leads to the roof and the liquid will freeze in it. It has been dripping like this for several months and with the beginning of the heating season, the amount of water continues to increase, although more when lighting up and after some time a little less, and again when the stove cools down for cleaning, it stops. Generally, I suspect corrosion in the coil water heater, but I`m not sure.

My installation is about 12 years old and I haven`t had any major problems with venting or circulation before. There was a slight discharge after lighting and immediately after adding water, but it didn`t flow almost all the time like it does now. This year, at the beginning of the season, there was air in it, although I don`t know why, but after the first firing, there is no air noise and I think that the circuit is fully vented.

The water heater is manufactured by Elektro-plas-met, capacity 80l with a 1500W heater, in the summer season it was used to heat water and the coil was cut off from the central heating circuit with two valves so as not to heat the radiators (perhaps the valves are not 100% tight after so many years). ).
Water circulation is forced by a Mikroma Pcm-25m circulation pump. Fine coal furnace Pleszew, heating power 2m3, power 25KW

What could be the cause of such a situation? Can the water heater actually break down due to corrosion, so that water from the water system gets into the heating system?

Does the water admittance valve hold?
I don`t know about you, but often the valve for admitting water into the boiler room is "rigidly" connected to the water supply network. If the valve is leaking, you have a problem.

The second possibility is as you mentioned. The domestic hot water tank has an "internal" leak.

The easiest way is to test cut off the heater on the tap water side and then see if water flows out (do not change the central heating water temperature at this time). The expansion tank should not be filled to full, as it heats up, the volume of water increases and this is what is supposed to fit in this tank, i.e. when the radiators are cold, the tank is almost empty. Just for the leak test, please do not empty the tank first, because we will not be able to see if it is overflowing.

@Ptak3124
In my opinion, the water admittance valve is OK, but to disconnect it I would have to disconnect the entire house using the valve at the meter. This valve works normally, there is no flow, no sign of external corrosion, as soon as I turn it a little there is a hissing sound throughout the house.
@lopiola
I just thought about this too, now I have to check it out