What kind of lace to make holes for cans in reinforced concrete?

A friend is getting a renovation and he wants to install flush-mounted sockets. They have reinforced concrete walls in the block of flats, he said that he was not fidgeting. He wanted to cut it with a drill and then forge it, but I have already read that there are diamond and widia diamonds that should be able to handle this substrate.

Which question should you choose? There will be several sockets, so the lace is nice so that it does not cost PLN 150. My drill is a Makita hr2470 so it has a pretty good impact. Which one to choose? Diamond and drill without impact or Widia and with stroke? Berker flush-mounted sockets, so how well did I check the 65mm diameter, right? I would also ask you to indicate which manufacturer has good quality lace for home use.

The consent of the administrator or building owner for drilling in concrete is?

Moderated By gulson:

3.1.11. It is forbidden to publish entries that do not contain substantive content. The message should contain advice + additionally, it may contain a warning against possible legal consequences.

I mean, to get an answer to the question, you need to paste a scan of the administrator / building owner consent to drilling in concrete?
What is the point of the regulations?

Moderated By Akrzy74:

3.1.11. It is forbidden to publish entries that do not contain substantive content, contain harmful advice, advice that is not an attempt to solve the problem, and the publication of identical entries consecutive or repeating information from the discussion.

abart64 wrote:

I mean, to get an answer to the question, you need to paste a scan of the administrator's / building's owner consent to drilling in concrete?
What is the point of the regulations?

No.
The owner may not wish to breach the structure of the building, that's all.

A colleague asks about the lace and you about the permits ... Typical.

Moderated By Akrzy74:

Maybe typical, but in this section we consider the problem comprehensively. In this case, the possible permission is more important than the lace, which the author probably does not know.

Theded, lace is one thing, be sure to stroke (hammer drill and SDS system welcome). Without a stroke, don't even take it.
I use Yato (with such "teeth"). They are cheap, because up to PLN 30 you can buy them online. In the supermarket, don't even look for it, because you will overpay.
A 75 crown will be ok, cans are usually 60mm.
Concrete can be wet before drilling, less dust and you can affirm that the lace heats up less .

abart64 wrote:

And you need such a permit?

Renovation works carried out inside the apartment, if they do not affect the common parts of the building, do not require a permit from the housing community. Also, installation works, if they are limited to the replacement of terminal equipment (e.g. cookers, stoves, heaters, sanitary appliances or internal water supply installations), without disturbing the risers, can be performed by the owner of the premises without the consent of other residents.
Even if someone wants to change the layout of the rooms during the renovation of the apartment, demolish some partition walls and put them in other places or arrange a bathroom in the place of the kitchen, they do not have to apply for such permission, provided that these changes do not interfere with the common parts of the building. It is different in the case of a cooperative flat, even an owner-occupied flat.
Only the so-called current maintenance does not require any formalities - for example, painting walls, varnishing floors. Also, works involving the renovation (restoration of the original condition) of the flat or its improvement do not require notification to the office (for example, replacement of windows, tiles). This is confirmed by the judgment of the Provincial Administrative Court in Warsaw of 23 January 2006 (file reference number VII SA / Wa 1431/05), which stated that the renovation of a single apartment in a multi-unit apartment building did not concern the structural parts of the building and had no impact on the functioning of the building. of the building as a whole is not a renovation of the building object and does not require notification.
In the case of cooperatives, the matter is more complicated. J. If you have a cooperative ownership right to the premises, its ownership continues with the cooperative, and the premises only have a limited property right. The owner (cooperative) has the decisive vote as to the possibility of reconstruction of the premises and common areas. Usually, the decision on this matter is made by the management board of the cooperative or the authorized head of the administration department on the basis of the applicable regulations (adopted by the general meeting of cooperative members).
Let's remember about the regulations of a cooperative or a community because it is important.

abart64 wrote:

I think that a friendly response from a person who knows the subject should be "buy it and this, but remember that you need a permit to forge"

Why would this "kind" answer lead someone to unnecessary expenses? If you do not know the subject, do not argue, because hell has been paved with good intentions, and you insult others with poor comparisons. A bit of humility, because people who cut their teeth at the installations write here and, in addition, are up to date with the law that applies to us all, which amateurs do not pay attention to at all.

Okay, let it be ...
You will not get advice here whether to buy X or Y tools, because it would be surreptitious advertising - first of all.
And secondly - for one user, the tools of the branded company X can withstand several years of hard plowing, and the companies Y (or no name from the market) fall apart on the same day. Another, in turn, is quite the opposite and praises the heavens for a cheap supermarket but she swears and hangs all dogs on expensive, branded products ...

Wow, I didn't expect such an interest in the subject, it's a pity that the answers are completely unhelpful for me.

I will give a friend a topic. I have no idea if the flat is his or the cooperative's etc. I will ask him to go for his own good and ask them if he can do it. I found a few similar topics on the electrode and for the most part, the topic quickly changes to jostling what is allowed and what is not. I think that these few holes for sockets will not have any negative effects - the question of how to make them.

Please read my first post - the only friend who has advised something asks if I have a good drill and it just so happens that I even gave the model. I will add that it has SDS-plus so that you do not look for it.

theded wrote:

I think that these few holes for sockets will not have any negative effects - the question of how to make them.

If it already overcomes legal obstacles, then in reinforced concrete, the use of impact tools is not used or the use of impact tools is limited to the maximum, and the crown, after hitting a reinforcement bar, is only suitable for scrap metal. In reinforced concrete, it is cut, not drilled. Therefore, throw the drill into the box, it will be useful elsewhere.

However, openings for sockets are not everything. You have to lead wires to them. It's just that forging in reinforced concrete is forbidden !!!

Diamond crown, drilling without hammering. Which manufacturer? I will say popularly Dedra how long will it last? I don't know differently with this. Instead of a lace, you can cut a square, drill and forge a square with a diamond disc. You can drill the outline of the can and hammer it.
Many methods. One thing is certain is a nightmare.

We do not touch the cables, only surface-mounted to flush-mounted sockets. From what I associate, they are under the plaster (I did not look at his place). As for the diameter, someone will say it, because I'm going to buy it online and I would not like to send it back. I prefer to drill than cut with a square, but I will also buy a diamond blade if necessary.

theded wrote:

I prefer to drill than cut with a square, but I will also buy a diamond blade if necessary.

For what? Buy a good ?6 drill and go around the circumference, inside the circle too. Break the rest with an old screwdriver.

And it will not be 5 times as much work as a hole saw? A friend had just such an idea but he likes to make it difficult and has bad equipment - his drill would not be able to cope with such a hole saw.

theded wrote:

And it will not be 5 times as much work as a hole saw?

It depends on how many holesaws you have at your disposal and how many slots you need to make. Again: each hit on a rebar is a scrap metal hole saw. On the other hand, the drill bit ?6 will either slip or you will feel the rod. And one drill bit is enough for a dozen such apartments.

It is supposed to be a hole saw for a one-time job, if it survives, it will come in handy again someday. I suspect that if I were to buy two, it would be worth asking a specialist with his equipment to make these holes. There are several sockets or switches there - I don't know, so far we talked initially.

retrofood wrote:

Again: each hit on a rebar is a scrap metal hole saw. On the other hand, the drill bit ?6 will either slip or you will feel the rod. And one drill bit is enough for a dozen such apartments.

And my colleague thinks that each hit on the rod ends with damage to the crown - after all, drilling crowns with such an assumption would not make sense at all?

mieszkaniec wrote:

And my colleague thinks that each hit on the rod ends with damage to the crown - after all, drilling crowns with such an assumption would not make sense at all?

Because it is. Drilling crowns in reinforced concrete does not make sense, otherwise it is prohibited. Crowns are for unreinforced materials.

retrofood wrote:

mieszkaniec wrote:

And my colleague thinks that each hit on the rod ends with damage to the crown - after all, drilling crowns with such an assumption would not make sense at all?

Because it is. Drilling crowns in reinforced concrete does not make sense, otherwise it is prohibited. Crowns are for unreinforced materials.

I will make a surreptitious advertisement:
www.wiercenie.witryna.info

pzd.

mieszkaniec wrote:

make surreptitious advertising:

Do not confuse diamonds and professional equipment with an SDS lace. However, this is a slightly different technology.

So what, a small drill and let's go?

The cheapest with a drill, dirty but fast with a square. If you have PLN 80-150, buy a diamond lace and trepan. You will only need to drill a hole for a pilot drill to enter the wall, then it will hold itself in the slot. You drill without impact because the lace will be damned. When it hits the reinforcement, it will rub, but it must not be pulled out and pushed and bent sideways. You have to keep it parallel to the wall as much as possible so that the tiles will rub evenly.

The impact crown will jump on the wall and even lose teeth and after hitting the reinforcement it will be as jagged as ...

Only the question of mounting remains because you have SDS plus and it would suit you.

It is also impossible to make a full turn because it will overheat and can burn out, you need to be sensitive.
It will not go into the butter like a knife, but if you are looking for an optimal comfortable method, it is only a lace with diamond plates.

Durability, well, as I wrote to you, it can be different.

Now the question of the quiz which lace is the most expensive in a suitcase? There is no diamond here, I don't even have one, because I haven't made some money.

Somewhere on the forum I have already found your photo and you wrote that cheap works just as well as the road. Also the answer is "irrelevant" :P

I also have an adapter with a regular head, but it's probably better to take the sds tip. My drill is relatively new and little used - the side play is minimal.

If we do not have a suitable drilling rig for thick $$$, we are left with the fastest method. Hammer drill and concrete drill bits plus a chisel and hammer. One hole for the can takes approx. 10-15 minutes.
I have done it personally.
Ps. The subject was rolled over many times.
One of many: https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic2961874.html

And buy a better drill, will the cheap ones from the Makita set be able to do it?

Drill and drill bit on SDS.
I do not know how in other cities in my town, drills appear from time to time in the promotion of SDS Makita and buy them.
They are not expensive because I buy drill 8 for PLN 6, and 10 for PLN 11.
I was afraid if they were some fakes, but they can withstand a lot of drilling.

I bought a whole suitcase of makita sds drills and chisels for PLN 80, so the prices you give are proportional. I saw that the art ones are labeled econo or something similar and cost just like you wrote.

I thought that maybe a diamond one would work better, but maybe I'll just buy the more expensive 2-3 and drive.

As above, my colleague is not aware of the charms of drilling in concrete (you must not stroke)
There are cheaper companies and you do not need hilti for this - a regular drill or wasta drill will do just fine - wet drilling quietly and accurately

karolark wrote:

As above, my colleague is not aware of the charms of drilling in concrete (you must not stroke)

Pledge it without comment. :)

karolark wrote:

There are cheaper companies and you do not need hilti for this - a regular drill or wasta drill will do just fine - wet drilling quietly and accurately

A regular drill and a regular drill. Good luck!
I will take this as a good joke.

Wet? Of course, you can, but you have to take into account that the downstairs neighbor will appear and the investor will have to renovate two apartments :)

theded You can handle these Hiltos drills, but if you want something more expensive, there is nothing to stop you.

Popak wrote:

karolark wrote:

As above, my colleague is not aware of the charms of drilling in concrete (you must not stroke)

Pledge it without comment. :)

karolark wrote:

There are cheaper companies and you do not need hilti for this - a regular drill or wasta drill will do just fine - wet drilling quietly and accurately

A regular drill and a regular drill. Good luck!
I will take this as a good joke.

Wet? Of course, you can, but you have to take into account that the downstairs neighbor will appear and the investor will have to renovate two apartments :)

theded You can handle these Hiltos drills, but if you want something more expensive, there is nothing to stop you.

Yes, buddy, wet, and I wrote about the drill, not the drill so success is unnecessary - there are also such mysterious devices as a vacuum cleaner