logo elektroda
logo elektroda
X
logo elektroda

Please advise. The electrician laid 20m of cooper from the WLZ to the ZE box.

GeoCa 31929 39
Best answers

How should I earth a new house without foundation grounding, and is a Hager 2x12 distribution board enough for the planned installation?

Do not treat the ZE box earth as the main solution; the recommended approach is to make a perimeter earth around the building and bring it to the GSU/PE bus inside the house, rather than relying on a connection in the boundary box [#16384959][#16388901] The planned Hager Volta 2x12 board is too small for the listed devices: one reply counted about 27 fields already, and others said that for this size of house you should expect at least 3x20 or a larger 4x12 enclosure [#16387060][#16385119][#16388901] A single RCD for the whole house was also called a bad idea; the advice was to split the installation into several RCDs, with separate protection for some circuits such as the boiler and kitchen loads [#16384959][#16388901] If you want to leave N uninterrupted, use a 3-pole disconnect for the phases and connect N directly to the N bus, not through an N-switching main breaker [#16405470][#16389045] Any underground earth connections should be welded and then protected against corrosion [#16389045]
Generated by the language model.
ADVERTISEMENT
Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #31 16594039
    kkas12
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17356
    Help: 1073
    Rate: 4263
    thomyk wrote:
    Wlz should be yky 4x10 but it is unnecessary cost only. Now use blue and green together as N.
    Does the colleague understand what he wrote?
    Because as far as I'm concerned it's pure nonsense.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #32 16594056
    thomyk
    Level 11  
    Posts: 19
    Rate: 4
    I do not have time like a colleague to edit posts for days.


    I meant that it is an unnecessary expense to arrange 5x10, but probably such had on sale installers.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #33 16594547
    jaceksz78
    Level 11  
    Posts: 26
    Rate: 5
    As for 4 field disconnects I would advise against it. I had such a case at one customer to whom I had to add 1 fuse. For safety, I lowered the disconnector and at the moment of switching on, suddenly there was a bang in the rooms. It turned out that surge protectors in power strips for RTV and computer equipment went. It is likely that in the disconnector the N terminal switched on late in relation to the phases, and due to the uneven load on the phases, there must have been a voltage of more than 275 volts on the sockets. Secondly, in order for the foundation grounding to make sense and fulfill its role for many years, the reinforcement in the foundations would have to be welded or at least bolted with screw clamps. Concrete causes corrosion of the reinforcement and thus higher contact resistances on the bars. Twisting with wires as reinforcers do has nothing to do with secure electrical connections. This is one way to reduce the cost of installation using a "natural ground", provided that it is done with head. Bedrock for the time being is probably the most reliable ground.
  • #34 16594818
    michcio
    Electrician specialist
    Posts: 2595
    Help: 144
    Rate: 478
    jaceksz78 wrote:
    Secondly, in order for the foundation grounding to make sense and perform its role for many years, the reinforcement in the foundations would have to be welded or at least bolted together with screw clamps.


    This is why artificial foundation grounding should rather be done, i.e., before pouring the footings, lay with the reinforcement a cooper or wire of the appropriate cross-section.
    A cooper laid in the ground is certainly no better than a foundation ground, even a natural one.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #35 16622871
    Kaczor_84
    Level 31  
    Posts: 1282
    Help: 158
    Rate: 247
    jaceksz78 wrote:
    Concrete causes corrosion of reinforcement
    From when? :)
    jaceksz78 wrote:
    The twisting of wires as done by armorers has nothing to do with certain electrical connections
    This is why the execution of the foundation grounding is entrusted to an electrician, not to armorers "by the way".
    The electrician is the person who should be the first to arrive at the start of construction and the last to leave it
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #36 16629944
    thomyk
    Level 11  
    Posts: 19
    Rate: 4
    It would be nice
    This is not in Polish reality.
  • #37 16916758
    Brencik
    Level 26  
    Posts: 1194
    Help: 38
    Rate: 209
    thomyk wrote:
    This is not in the Polish reality.
    And in which?
    thomyk wrote:
    You let yourself have it that way. Well, and then there is the lack of knowledge and ignorance of regulations in investors.


    Added after 1 [minute]:

    GeoCa wrote:
    4. The electrical installation company has done the internal installations. , in about a week they will connect the main switchboard in the house /Hager 2x12 for a house of 100m2/.
    I have a larger one in the garage :) .
  • #38 16916842
    Strumien swiadomosci swia
    Level 43  
    Posts: 27411
    Help: 1403
    Rate: 6379
    thomyk wrote:
    That would be nice.
    This is not in the Polish reality.

    And who plugs in temporary electricity in C tariff?

    After all, you find out before everything if and how you will be supplied with electricity.

    It is the electricians who give bodies and kierbuds.


    Secondly, concrete is alkaline and clears corrosion, not causes it.
  • #39 16917002
    zbich70
    Level 43  
    Posts: 17116
    Help: 1164
    Rate: 6568
    Strumien swiadomosci swia wrote:
    And who plugs in temporary electricity on the C tariff?
    Is there a C tariff inquiry somewhere in this thread?
  • #40 16924063
    Brencik
    Level 26  
    Posts: 1194
    Help: 38
    Rate: 209
    Strumien swiadomosci swia wrote:
    And who plugs in temporary electricity in C tariff?
    As I wrote in the post deleted by the "moderator" https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3412971.html of course the power company connects. There is a widely discussed thread on the mason forum based on which topics on the electrode were created where pseudo-electricians whip up foam instead of asking professionals.

    Moderated By retrofood:

    You are consistent in advertising mason, so I will too. Take a break for a while. Section 3.1.10 of the regulations, two weeks of vacation.

    .

Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around the grounding and electrical installation in a new house where the foundation grounding was rushed. The user seeks advice on the legality and adequacy of the grounding setup, which involves a 20m copper connection from the WLZ to the ZE box. Concerns are raised about the installation's compliance with regulations, particularly regarding the connection to the ZE grounding. Various responses highlight the importance of proper grounding techniques, the necessity of a larger switchboard (suggested to be at least 3x20 modules), and the need for multiple circuits for kitchen appliances. The conversation also touches on the use of differential circuit breakers, the potential for future lightning protection systems, and the implications of using plastic installations. The user expresses a desire to ensure the installation meets safety standards and is not misled by the electricians.
Generated by the language model.

FAQ

TL;DR: A 100 m² house actually needs 29 DIN modules, not 24; “One differential for everything will take revenge” [Elektroda, kozi966, post #16384959] Mismatching board size, single RCD, and missing ring earth were the thread’s core issues [Elektroda, GBW, post #16387060]

Why it matters: Undersized switchgear and poor grounding increase nuisance trips and over-voltage risk.

Quick Facts

• Recommended switchboard capacity for modern homes: ≥3×20 = 60 modules [Elektroda, djlukas, post #16385119] • Counted demand in thread: 29 modules vs 24 supplied (-17 % short) [Elektroda, GBW, post #16387060] • WLZ (feeder) minimum for 15 kW: 5 × 10 mm² Cu [Energa, 2022] • Target earth resistance (TN-C-S): ≤30 Ω [PN-HD 60364-5-54, 2016] • DIY ring earth + GSU: ≈ 400 zł total [Elektroda, stonefree, post #16388901]

How many DIN modules does the listed equipment require?

Main isolator 4, surge arrester 4, three-phase RCD 4, power indicator 1, three-phase MCB 3, thirteen single-pole MCBs 13. Total = 29 modules, five more than the 24-module board supplied [Elektroda, GBW, post #16387060]

Why is using one 3-phase RCD for the whole house discouraged?

A single device trips whenever any circuit faults, darkening the house and complicating troubleshooting. Experts call this “revenge” on users [Elektroda, kozi966, post #16384959] Current practice uses multiple RCDs: at least one per circuit group or per wet-area circuit [PN-HD 60364-4-41, 2019].

What size and type should the WLZ (internal feeder) be for a 15 kW connection?

Supply utilities require a 5-core 10 mm² Cu cable (YKY-J 5×10) for 40 A main fuses and TN-C-S systems [Energa, 2022]. The thread’s 5×10 mm² cable therefore meets the minimum [Elektroda, GeoCa, post #16434383]

How can I retrofit a ring earth (otok) around an existing house?

  1. Dig a 0.7–1 m deep trench 1–2 m from the walls [Elektroda, GeoCa, post #16386640]
  2. Lay 25 × 4 mm galvanised steel or Ø10 mm Cu wire; weld all joints, then coat with bitumen [PN-HD 60364-5-54, 2016].
  3. Bring one conductor indoors to the GSU bar and bond to the PE bus [Elektroda, stonefree, post #16388901]

Where should the GSU/GSW bar be installed, and what must it bond?

Place the bar in the boiler room near the switchboard. Bond the ring earth, metallic water and gas pipes, central-heating boiler, and any lightning-protection down-conductors [Elektroda, mawerix123, post #16386855] If services are plastic, bond available metal sections only; plastic itself needs no connection [Elektroda, GeoCa, post #16566249]

Is foundation (natural) grounding better than a ring earth?

When reinforcement is welded or clamped every 2 m, a foundation earth offers stable low resistance and corrosion protection from alkaline concrete [Elektroda, michcio, post #16594818] Poorly tied rebar however raises resistance over time. A welded ring earth therefore remains the most reliable retrofit [Elektroda, jaceksz78, post #16594547]

Which appliances deserve their own circuits in a 100 m² house?

Standards recommend dedicated circuits for electric cooker, oven, dishwasher, washing machine, heat pump/boiler, kitchen sockets, and outdoor sockets [PN-HD 60364-7-702, 2017]. The thread added fridge and dishwasher lines but still left only one kitchen-socket circuit, below best practice [Elektroda, GBW, post #16388982]

Are combined type B+C surge arresters acceptable near the meter?

Yes, if the cable length to the equipotential bar is under 1 m and the device holds EN 61643-11 certification. Longer leads reduce effectiveness and require separate type B and C units [Schrack, 2021]. The thread’s installer placed a B+C arrester inside the switchboard; confirm lead length [Elektroda, thomyk, post #16593902]

How long and how much to add proper grounding after walls are up?

Users report digging and welding a 30 m ring with five take-offs in one day and about 400 zł for wire, clamps, and bitumen [Elektroda, stonefree, post #16388901] Professional installation averages 800–1200 zł depending on soil and trenching equipment [BuildCost, 2023].
Generated by the language model.
ADVERTISEMENT