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Buffer with/without Coils? 2000L for 110m2 House, 40cm Brick Walls, Central Heating & Hot Water

JanSaga 11880 12
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #1 16766347
    JanSaga
    Level 1  
    House of 110 m2 with 40 cm thick walls made of solid brick, only insulated from the top and bottom.
    Should the 2000L buffer for central heating and domestic hot water have coils or can it be used to draw water directly (without coils) to the radiators and to the hot water boiler (the boiler has its own coils?

    Thanks for the advice.
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  • #2 16766781
    Magister_123
    Level 36  
    Without a coil, it will be suitable for your needs.
  • #3 16772784
    zybek102
    Level 10  
    I am also in the moment of inserting the buffer.
    I have too much time to burn the fuel in the boiler in relation to the needs, but I have a 100l jacket boiler, which I intend to connect with the buffer by gravity, and push the power supply to the cabinets on the ground floor and on the first floor with a pump.
    With this solution, he wants to collect the highest temperature at the top of the buffer for use at a later date.
    Buffer made of 2mm sheet metal, 660l standing roller.
    I have a question about a solution to lower the temperature on the cabinets because I have radiators with thermostatic valves and underfloor heating from the same beam, only on the return of the circuits there are RTL valves.
    It is true that I have thermostatic everything to block the flow, but in the cabinets it is sometimes too hot 70 degrees, then the pump has to keep pumping, it will not break when all thermostatic valves close?
    I plan like this:
    Behind the tee for the buffer and the boiler, where there will be gravity, put a three-way thermostatic connected back and then a pump that will draw a properly mixed temperature, say 40 degrees.
    Then there is the problem of a closed flow with a heated building.

    Where will I go wrong?
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  • #4 16772809
    Magister_123
    Level 36  
    @ zybek102 Draw the diagram because I don't know what the author meant.
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  • #5 16772823
    zybek102
    Level 10  
    I already know, I should probably give the boiler some protection against a cold return, for example, let the pump return to 40 degrees?!
    Or a second pump for domestic hot water to quickly chase the hot water through the boiler to return hot water to the boiler and, for example, set it to the central heating return temperature and when it reaches 50 to OFF.
    It is known that more than 40 from the installation will not return with the mixer set to 40.

    There are a thousand thoughts in my head. I'm sorry for the quality.
    I'm already drawing

    Added after 11 [minutes]:

    Buffer with/without Coils? 2000L for 110m2 House, 40cm Brick Walls, Central Heating & Hot Water

    Added after 3 [minutes]:

    I omit the manual valves in the cabinets in the drawing, I have one common for the hot utility water buffer and return to the stove.
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  • #6 16772958
    Magister_123
    Level 36  
    @ zybek102 It will not work at all, i.e. loading the buffer and heating domestic hot water.
    You have to do this traditionally, i.e. all heat has to pass through the buffer. Only behind the buffer do you distribute the energy.
  • #7 16772999
    zybek102
    Level 10  
    I considered such a necessity, which is why I seek the opinion of experts.
    The 5/4 "buffer supply will be at a height of 190cm, the exit will be done 5cm higher and the boiler is still 30 cm higher in the garage next to the boiler room (2m of pipe)
    Is it ok to do a gravity feed of hot water behind the buffer and a three-way thermostatic one on the cabinets and give a pump in this way?
    Provide a second pump for DHW loading to improve the return temperature to the boiler?
    Generally, when there is no electricity, there is a hot water supply and the return is a difference of 10 degrees after 30 minutes - it returns quickly.
    Is the differential valve good here? Is it needed?
  • #8 16773025
    Magister_123
    Level 36  
    Do not describe the installation in words, just draw diagrams. This is not a school and a Polish language lesson.
    The differential valve just interferes there.
    Do you want to do it right or cheap?
  • #9 16773084
    zybek102
    Level 10  
    Buffer with/without Coils? 2000L for 110m2 House, 40cm Brick Walls, Central Heating & Hot Water

    I want it to work without the high temperatures in the cupboards, but cheap.
    Does the return from installation also have to enter the buffer?
    And how would it be good what you propose here?
  • #10 16775019
    Magister_123
    Level 36  
    Gravity loading has the disadvantage that the buffer will never be fully loaded.
    I see it like this:
    - gravity loading of the buffer, two pumps: one for central heating and hot utility water.
    -three pumps: for the buffer, central heating and hot utility water.
  • #11 16775126
    zybek102
    Level 10  
    At the beginning, don't let the buffer heat up anyway because there is no such need.
    Is gravity working through the pump?
    If the answer is NO, then in the event of a power outage, I will only land the buffer, and I would like to heat the company with water.
    Is it possible to prioritize hot utility water charging and closing the flow with a limiter, thermostatic valve 3/4, etc.?
    Only then would the excess temperature be directed through the buffer.
    Do you support this solution?
    I understand that you are proposing a second DHW pump with the option to turn off the controller when the return reaches the temperature?! And then the pump blocks gravity loading of hot water and
    starting to load buffer?
  • #12 16775702
    Magister_123
    Level 36  
    zybek102 wrote:
    At the beginning, don't let the buffer heat up anyway because there is no such need.

    How the heat buffer works
    The most important feature of the heat buffer is the layered water system. Hot water is lighter than cold water. Therefore, if a layer of hot water is placed over a layer of cold water, such a system behaves like a mixture of water and oil. There will be no mixing of the layers, and hot water will never heat the cold water from above even though they are in direct contact. It is not possible to heat the water from above by contact. That is why the burners on the cookers are located under the pots.
    Quote from: http://czysteogrzał.pl/instalacja-grzewcza/bufor-ciepla/

    zybek102 wrote:
    Is gravity working through the pump?
    If the answer is NO, then in the event of a power outage, I will only land the buffer, and I would like to heat the company with water.

    There is no gravity through the pump, but it is enough to make a bypass with a ball valve parallel to the pump. In the absence of electricity, you open the valve and gravity starts working.
  • #13 16776051
    zybek102
    Level 10  
    That's how I understand it.
    There is a DHW priority, there is a protection in case of a failure, there is a DHW circuit blocked to charge the buffer, there is a temperature reduction for the central heating system, I leave bathroom radiators without thermostats, so as not to close the flow completely, the pump could be damaged?
    I have a CIRCULATION PUMP WILO YONOS PICO CO 25/40 180-MM 4M
    will be OK? can you turn in spring?
    Buffer with/without Coils? 2000L for 110m2 House, 40cm Brick Walls, Central Heating & Hot Water

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the suitability of a 2000L buffer tank for a 110m2 house with 40cm thick brick walls, specifically whether it should include coils for central heating and domestic hot water. Responses indicate that a buffer without coils can meet the heating needs, but concerns about temperature management and system efficiency arise. Users discuss various configurations, including gravity feeding, pump systems, and the importance of maintaining temperature differentials. The layered water system in heat buffers is highlighted, emphasizing the need for proper flow management to prevent overheating in radiators. Suggestions include using multiple pumps for efficient operation and ensuring that the system can function during power outages.
Summary generated by the language model.
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