Lanos Sedan Troubleshooting: Alternator or Battery Issue After Long Idle Period?

Hello,
I am the owner of a 19 year old lanos sedan. I have this problem on 10/10/2017:
I was on vacation for 3 weeks and I returned on 10/10/2017 = the car has not been used, it is not in a garage - it is outside. I didn't take the battery home After my vacation I couldn't fire it. I bought jumper cables - fired from someone right away the first time. It came a bit, I drove a bit, I lit it on the same day about 3 times. Unfortunately, I did not charge the battery. I drove about 1 week - no problem. After this week of use, I did not use the car from Thursday to Monday. In the morning he didn't fire up to work. What's worse, it did not fire on the starting cables from another car. I bought a charger, charged it, put it in (around midnight at night) and went to work the next morning (Tuesday) - it fired. When I wanted to come back, he did not fire - but he did fire from someone's car on the starting cable - right away, quickly. The Lord informed me that I have loose clamps. I got home, I improved the clamps, since then it has been working well again for about 1 week. Until yesterday. Yesterday - I drove 14 km to work, the car stood 12 hours. Then I went from work to point B about 25 km. The car stood about 3-4 hours. After that time I got into it and it wouldn't start. Again, a request to fire from someone on the starter cables - no effect, we even tried to charge it for about 5 minutes, even the "support" car did a little gasping. I took the battery home, charged it all night, put it in the car today around 11:00 - it fired without any problems, the first time, quickly.

The battery I have is: 60 Ah, 540 A , my father says he is "new", so I assume he is 5 years old
I took the voltmeter readings. Unfortunately, I only have it after firing, because I did not have a voltmeter before firing - make some measurements? Is it enough information that the protector indicated 12.8V when I disconnected it when it finished charging? I don't want to fire it today to get to work tomorrow :P

Measurements - given in order of reading:
-After starting the car and driving about 10 km in medium traffic jams - 13.3V
- after turning on the heating and rear window during gassing, 13.4-13.5V
- after turning off the heating and rear window during gassing, 13.9 V
- the car fired, without gassing, without turning anything on inside 13.96 V

My question - replace the battery? Is the alternator not charging it?
During the week I travel to work 14 km one way.
I have been using the car for about a year - the battery has never been discharged, it survived last winter (2016) without any problems.
Did I damage it with this 3-week break and the fact that I did not charge it but fired it from someone?
The car has more and more defects and I am thinking of scrapping it. If it is a battery, I will buy a new one, but if I buy a new one and it turns out that it is an alternator, I think that investing in this car makes sense and I will lose a new battery. Such disparities. I would be very grateful for your help

The alternator is charging poorly

why did it suddenly break down? do the voltmeter measurements again?

Added after 1 [minutes]:

I read something about the cubes in the alternator - does it make sense to replace them?

Why does a person get a heart attack? Suddenly and without prior notice. Buy an alternator on the road

should over 14 have

and what is the cost of installing an alternator? you know how it is, a woman comes to a mechanic ...

PLN 50 in Lanos

and I will also ask about the battery. Maybe it would also be worn out at the same time? or rather gives advice and will give

First check the voltage on the battery after a long idle time before firing.
Another is to check the power consumption at a standstill - the meter you have is a matter of connecting in series between the positive battery terminal and the detached positive cable. Enter the ampere value from the meter.

And he was shooting something at all or immediately all the backlights dimmed when he did not want to fire?
Because this is the basic thing to check because maybe the battery, not the alternator.

Of course, the voltage is measured on the battery - almost 14V, I don't know why it should be an alternator? If it is something, check the plus voltage on the alternator, although it looks like a weak battery or other defect.

Klemy not tarnished? Are they holding well now aren't they loose?
In general, do the dipped beam headlights / backlight inside / radio dims when firing?

Quote:

I got home, I improved the clamps, since then it has been working well again for about 1 week. Until yesterday. Yesterday - I drove 14 km to work, the car stood 12 hours. Then I went from work to point B about 25 km. The car stood about 3-4 hours. After that time I got into it and it wouldn't start. Again, a request to fire from someone on the starter cables - no effect, we even tried to charge it for about 5 minutes, even the "support" car did a little gasping.

He was shooting and did not want to smoke or how did he behave?

Hello .
First of all, charge the battery well (about 10h) to full charge. Make sure it does not reach a high temperature, which does not bode long life for it. After full charge, install it in the car and then check the charging. while the engine is running. If it is OK, then you should check if there is a significant power consumption when stationary. The fact that your car suddenly refused to obey you in the morning, there can be many reasons;
-already a few years old battery
-small sections of car driving (many receivers turned on, blower, heated windshield, etc.).
- the aforementioned significant power consumption when stationary by left on the light, radio, door, trunk (of course, when the car is in a garage).

Get to the electrician

You read about real and imaginary ideas, and nothing will come of it until you have the technical skills. Somehow your description does not show that you grabbed the tools. This is not an objection but an assessment of the situation. And since the parent, apart from issuing an opinion, will also not take any action, it remains to get someone kumaty from the group of males. And in such an old vehicle, of course, everything can refuse to cooperate. But maybe before you act effectively, make things that are kind of obvious. If you are already dragging this battery for charging, do a voltage measurement before charging and it would also be good when you try to start it (during). Almost 14 V with the engine running is not a tragedy yet. It looks to me that there may be faulty connections (e.g. ground cable). But here again the measurements. And the question what does it mean did not fire? Does it spin the starter and how does it spin? Do you hear electromagnet noises etc?

It turns out that the voltage regulator is not working properly. It should be over 14V at idle speed with no lights on and heater blower turned on. After turning on the traffic lights and the blower to the max, it should charge no less than 14. The battery, if you write 5 years, may also not hold. Look for the alternator on the road. The cost is not great. If you are charging over 14V and you are still in trouble, you will probably need to look for a battery.

But I am almost sure that it works as it should.
Probably the power consumption at some low level, which after a long standstill
the battery ended. In addition, falling charging with the receivers turned on
13.3 - 13.4 the more that winter is coming, it is definitely not enough. Dips on the wires
alternator-battery (to check, compare the voltage on the battery and alternator)
Actions:
-Repair of alternator-battery connections
-Find a thief (often a badly connected radio, some crappy alarm control unit)
Who will do it?
The decision is up to the author

As the alternator idles with no load gives a voltage of 14V, it is not so tragic. It should be 14.4V, so as the alternator (or rather the regulator) heats up, the voltage drops is normal and appropriate, but it should not drop below 13.8V. On the other hand, the 5-year-old battery, which in addition was deeply discharged, should rather be replaced.
However, I do not like this:

marta443 wrote:

-After starting the car and driving about 10 km in medium traffic jams - 13.3V
(...)
- the car fired, without gassing, without turning anything on inside 13.96 V

Under what conditions was it 13.3V, and under what 14V?

current consumption after disconnecting the positive clamp on the battery 0.5mA - no current thief. Tomorrow morning I will measure and write what the voltmeter will show me - before and after firing and after reaching the place before and after turning off the engine - these 4 measurements will be enough? tomorrow morning I won't have too much of anyone to ask for a measurement during gassing. I will repeat the measurements after work at most.
mczpski- what else should I measure? ps dad is 600 km away from me and he will not help much otherwise, residual informing him not to bother him - so without family missiles.

during firing, nothing was ever blinking - read the lights, the controls were always on in line, always beeping - it has such a system that after half a turn of the key it beeps, after beeping, it only starts - and beeps.
When firing the eyelashes / turns / catches the whole thing, and as long as I turn the key, there has never been a total "disaster". The moan of the electromagnet is totally unfamiliar to me - I have no idea what it sounds like.
Like every car, it has the most powerful indicator that flashes - it is always on, even when it does not start.

Now it turned out that the sister - the previous user unloaded it several times. it's only strange why has it worked flawlessly for the last year?
____________________________
explanation:
- After starting the car and driving about 10 km in medium traffic jams - 13.3V = I started samóch, drove a bit, drove home, stopped in the parking lot, did not turn off the engine - immediately after stopping, I took a measurement.
-Car fired, without gassing, without turning anything on inside 13.96 V - I do not understand what should I explain? I turned off the airflow, the rear window, the light inside was off.

Nieodzew was when you had to borrow electricity, wasn't it? Because otherwise why borrow?

Quote:

current consumption after disconnecting the positive clamp on the battery 0.5mA - no current thief.

Are you sure 0.5mA? I don't know if it's even possible Check because maybe 0.5A and that's a lot. Anyway, measure the voltage after a long stop (e.g. every 12H) as it will stay longer on the weekend and you will know a lot (without lighting / charging the battery). Check this amperage several times, because maybe some consumption comes out after some time - of course, everything with a closed car as if you were leaving it.

The klems are sticking or something may not be connected?

With a weak battery, the lights or the radio can and should go out when firing. Hence the question whether they are not fading. The LEDs from the alarm (because there is an alarm?) Let them flash, but those from the dashboard should dim (the radio is also turned on).

The most interesting thing is that after borrowing electricity, it did not start at all - this something does not fit the falling battery, but something else.

marta443 wrote:

tomorrow morning I won't have too much of anyone to ask for a measurement during gassing.

There is a gas line under the hood ... you can add gas by pulling this line while "under the hood".

After 3 weeks of inactivity, the battery had the right to discharge and such a deep discharge leads to sulphation of the battery. If I leave the car for a longer time, I unscrew one of the clamps and then the battery rests and it is not possible to discharge it. You can also install a ground disconnect under the hood and disconnect it You can also install LED daytime running lights for the convenience of your battery, because when driving on dipped headlights on factory bulbs, the consumption current is about 10A with 2x 55W bulbs and without taking into account other current receivers installed in the car .

tzok wrote:

As the alternator idles with no load gives a voltage of 14V, it is not so tragic. It should be 14.4V

Er, there. Probably no car is like that. The standard Vw had a charge around 14-14.2V and it was good. This is the upper limit of charging - will you finally acknowledge that if the voltage at the terminals while the engine is running is within the range of 13.9-14.4V, is the charging considered correct? Once again, someone will write nonsense that the alternator is to be replaced, exposing the user to unnecessary costs, I will personally charge him for it. Especially that the measurement was made with some kind of measuring device with unknown reliability of the indications. The battery is simply worn out - deep discharge during a 3-week stoppage simply finished it and that's it - you have to buy a new one, for the upcoming frost, it will be as found. For this, I suggest checking the condition and tension of the belt just in case.
In addition, advanced users should note that the voltage regulator reference voltage is "measured" by it on the B + terminal of the alternator, not on the terminals - necessarily, with high currents, voltage drops on connections and wires will always be, and often the screw with an eyelet liked to rotate on the alternator.

Girl, Martha, buy a new battery and after the trouble, the more you read pseudo-experts you won't be smarter, it's a waste of time.

Will the diagnosis with an electrician cost PLN 20? PLN 30? And it will take 5 minutes. I believe that before buying a battery for a few hundred zlotys, it is worth driving up and checking if the installation is OK. A car electrician will check the battery, alternator with a tester and inspect the cable fastening to the clamps, bodywork and alternator.

Hits from today:
Before firing 12.36V
Immediately after starting 14.8V
Upon arrival at 14.37v
After arriving at the site and turning off the 12.83V engine, it was falling for about 10 minutes. It finally showed 12.33V and it probably fell somehow, but I didn't wait anymore.
longer
After work:
Before starting at 15.00 measurement ----> 9.82 v and of course it did not start But it fired on jumper cables. After starting the engine, the voltmeter read 14.56v,

After driving home and not turning off 14.56v, after turning off the engine, 12.7v dropped to 12.5v, I didn't wait any longer.

so for me the alternator works? How do you think?

Battery to be replaced as has less than 12.55 cells are broken down and change the battery.

So far, I do not have to withdraw anything I wrote. I did not write about the moans of the electromagnet, nor did I accuse my father, Marta43. Of course, I also didn't know about the distance between them, because from where. However, I wrote about the need to make measurements of electrical quantities (and maybe not only) and their interpretation. And as part of this advice, I am now repeating the need to measure the voltage at the installation (at different locations) during start-up attempts. For the battery in a long idle state as well as immediately after charging. And I can't help but do it with two people. The results of these measurements could determine the condition of the battery, although it is likely what has been suggested by long-standing advisers. And of course a visit to a car electrician would be advisable.

12.33 is a paddock. gets self-discharging, disconnect a good car for 5 hours, of course, charged and check it is 12.50 and below, chase a new one and that's it

Before installing a new one, you MUST check the power consumption because these 0.5mA are very weak, 20mA is a rarity - today usually around 50 .... If you can't measure correctly, ask an electrician.

adamkowalski431 wrote:

12.33 is a paddock. gets self-discharging, disconnect a good car for 5 hours, of course, charged and check it is 12.50 and below, chase a new one and that's it

You may not believe it, but I used the battery, which held 12.5V for a few hours after charging, for two years without any problems. Over 6 years in total.



Helpful post?
+ [/ quote]

Okay, how do you explain the 9 volts with the hook

marta443 wrote:

Now it turned out that the sister - the previous user unloaded it several times. it's only strange why has it worked flawlessly for the last year?

Batteries can be fickle Mine survived the winter of -15 ° C (worked flawlessly) and died in April of the following year.
In my opinion, the battery is 95% and not an alternator. The easiest way (if possible) is to cross-test. Your battery for another car, a battery from another car for yours.