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Radmor 32812/1 Clone: Aluminum vs Steel Tube, Dimensions & Wall Thickness Importance

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Jak istotny jest dokładny wymiar i materiał dolnej rury w klonie anteny Radmor 32812/1 — czy lepiej użyć stalowej rury 42 mm/2 mm, czy aluminiowej 40 mm/1,5 mm?

Ta rura nie wygląda na krytyczną pod względem idealnego wymiaru elektrycznego; ścianka 2 mm w dolnej części była dobrana głównie dlatego, że ten element pełni też funkcję nośną i musi być odporniejszy mechanicznie [#16939646] W praktyce zbudowano klona na rurach 40x1,5 mm dla obu elementów i antena działała poprawnie po zestrojeniu [#16931998] Zestrojenie wykonano przez wydłużenie górnej aluminiowej rury, więc to długość elementów okazała się istotniejsza niż sama grubość ścianki [#17649722] Jeśli masz aluminium 40x1,5 mm, wygląda na to, że jest to akceptowalny zamiennik; w wątku nie ma jednak bezpośredniego potwierdzenia dla stalowej rury jako równoważnej zamiany [#16939646][#16931998]
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  • #31 21020428
    c2h5oh
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    @ElektrodaBot What does stimulating the passive element in the antenna with a vibrator involve?
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  • #32 21020433
    ElektrodaBot
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    c2h5oh wrote:
    What is vibrator excitation of a passive element in an antenna?
    Vibrator, in the context of antennas, is often referred to as the active element of an antenna that is responsible for the radiation or reception of radio waves. In the context of your question, "vibrator excitation of the passive element in the antenna" refers to the process by which energy is transferred from the vibrator (active element) to the passive element in the antenna. This process is crucial in the operation of directional antennas, such as Yagi-Uda antennas, where the vibrator is only one element (usually called the dipole or drive element) and the other elements (i.e. reflectors and directors) are passive elements. These passive elements are not electrically connected to the power line, but are excited by the RF field generated by the vibrator.

    This process can be described in a few steps:

    1. Excitation of the vibrator : When a radio signal (for example from a transmitter) is applied to the vibrator (active element) of the antenna, it starts to oscillate with the frequency of this signal. These oscillations generate an alternating electromagnetic field around the vibrator.

    2. Induction of the field : The alternating electromagnetic field generated by the vibrator propagates through the space around it. When this field encounters passive elements of the antenna (for example, the directors and reflectors in a Yagi-Uda antenna), it induces electric currents in them through the phenomenon of electromagnetic induction.

    3. Signal amplification and directionality : The currents induced in the passive elements of the antenna generate their own electromagnetic fields, which can interfere with the field generated by the vibrator. By appropriately placing and sizing the passive elements, the overall RF field of the antenna can be shaped so that the signal is amplified in a particular direction (increasing antenna gain) and attenuated in other directions (improving antenna directivity).

    4. Radiation and reception : As a result of the interaction between the vibrator and the passive elements, the antenna as a whole radiates the RF signal in the preferred direction or receives signals coming from that direction with greater efficiency.

    Excitation of the passive element in the antenna by the vibrator is therefore the fundamental mechanism that enables the operation of many types of directional antennas and is crucial to their ability to shape the radiation pattern and achieve high gain.
    You can call me in any topic by writing @ElektrodaBot. Disclaimer: Some answers provided by the ElektrodaBot may be inaccurate. Elektroda not responsible for accuracy, reliability or completeness of the information presented. All ElektrodaBot responses should be verified by the user. OpenAI can monitor and save information entered after calling ElektrodaBot.
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  • #33 21020435
    c2h5oh
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    @ElektrodaBot More precisely, it is an omnidirectional antenna with a vibrator placed inside a passive element which takes the form of a pipe surrounding the vibrator.
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  • #34 21020439
    ElektrodaBot
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    c2h5oh wrote:
    More specifically, this is an omnidirectional antenna with a vibrator placed inside a passive element that takes the form of a tube surrounding the vibrator.
    Further exploring the topic of an omnidirectional antenna with a vibrator placed inside a passive element that takes the form of a surrounding tube, we come across an interesting design that exploits the unique interaction between the two elements. Such designs are often used in colinear (collocation) antennas, where the aim is to achieve higher gain in the horizontal plane, while maintaining omnidirectional characteristics.

    Function and Design .

    1. Vibrator : Inside the tube, acting as a passive element, is a vibrator that is directly connected to a power line (e.g. coaxial cable). This vibrator generates an electromagnetic field in response to a given RF (Radio Frequency) signal.

    2. Passive element in the form of a Tube : The pipe surrounding the vibrator, made of conductive material, acts here as a passive element. It is not directly connected to the power line, but becomes part of the antenna through the interaction of the electromagnetic field generated by the vibrator.

    3. Excitation of the Passive Element : When the vibrator is excited by an RF signal, the electromagnetic field it generates induces currents in the conductive tube (passive element). These induced currents in effect also become the source of the electromagnetic field, which increases the effective radiation length of the antenna.

    4. Increase Gain and Maintain Omnidirectional Characteristics : With this unique excitation, the antenna can maintain omnidirectional characteristics but with increased gain in the horizontal plane. This is achieved by constructing the antenna in a way that allows for optimal distribution of the electromagnetic field around the antenna.

    Key Aspects .

    - Phasing : In order for the antenna to function correctly, it is very important that the phases of the electromagnetic field generated by the vibrator and induced in the pipe are properly matched. Incorrect phase matching can lead to destructive interference, which adversely affects the performance of the antenna.

    - Impedance matching : To maximise antenna efficiency, it is also essential that the impedance between the antenna and the transmission line is properly matched. This minimises signal loss and ensures optimal power transfer from transmitter to antenna (or from antenna to receiver).

    - Construction and Materials : Material selection and construction precision is critical to the performance of the antenna. Particular attention must be paid to the conductive properties of the pipe material, its thickness and the precision of the antenna components to ensure optimum conditions for current induction and radio wave propagation.

    Such antennas, due to their unique design, often are used where good horizontal radiation characteristics are needed without loss of omnidirectional characteristics, e.g. in some wireless communication systems, monitoring and surveillance systems or professional radio installations.
    You can call me in any topic by writing @ElektrodaBot. Disclaimer: Some answers provided by the ElektrodaBot may be inaccurate. Elektroda not responsible for accuracy, reliability or completeness of the information presented. All ElektrodaBot responses should be verified by the user. OpenAI can monitor and save information entered after calling ElektrodaBot.
  • #35 21020446
    c2h5oh
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    @piters33 I think now you will know why the 800 mm pipe is made of aluminum and not PVC.
    If the antenna does not meet your expectations, consider whether you have met all the conditions described above Key Aspects
    If you have any further doubts, feel free to ask.
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  • #36 21020453
    piters33
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    Thanks, I`ll analyze it and ask questions.
  • #37 21026047
    sq3evp
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    The bot responds like a politician. Maybe some professional books will help. I think it`s capacitive coupling. Stimulating passive elements is a classic Yagi that fits the description.

    Here is the documentation Radmora . Gain 0dBd, i.e. vertical dipole.

    FlowerPot offers more - about 3dBd, but it is definitely not wideband.

Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around the construction of a Radmor 32812/1 antenna clone, focusing on the choice between aluminum and steel tubes for the antenna elements. Participants share insights on the importance of dimensions and wall thickness, with some opting for a 40x1.5mm aluminum pipe. The conversation includes practical advice on sourcing materials, the significance of structural integrity, and the impact of different materials on antenna performance. Users report on their construction experiences, measurements, and tuning processes, highlighting the challenges and successes in achieving desired reception characteristics. The importance of using appropriate materials for specific antenna components is emphasized, particularly regarding the upper pipe's material choice and its effect on performance.
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FAQ

TL;DR: A correctly built Radmor 32812/1 clone can deliver 5-7 dB stronger signals than a roof-mounted half-wave dipole [Elektroda, Sumar, post #16959562] “Painting the antenna does not change anything in its parameters” [Elektroda, Krzysztof Kamienski, post #21011323] Accurate tube material and dimensions matter most.

Why it matters: These small build choices decide whether your VHF antenna beats or trails a stock whip.

Quick Facts

• Lower sleeve: 430 mm × Ø 42 mm × 2 mm aluminum; provides structure and matching [Elektroda, Sumar, post #16928298] • Upper sleeve: 800 mm aluminum tube; forms passive radiator, widens 144-174 MHz bandwidth [Elektroda, c2h5oh, post #21020411] • Factory gain: 0 dBd (≈ 2.15 dBi) for original 32812/1 [Radmor, Datasheet]. • Typical build cost: ≈ PLN 60 (US $15) including PVC shroud [Elektroda, Sumar, post #16959562] • Paint or powder coat: ≤ 0.0 dB change at VHF because coating is non-conductive and < skin depth [Elektroda, Krzysztof Kamienski, post #21011323]

Why is the bottom tube specified as 430 mm long, Ø 42 mm with a 2 mm wall?

The 2 mm wall makes the tube the antenna’s main mast, resisting dents and flexing in wind [Elektroda, generator, post #16939646] Electromagnetically, its diameter controls impedance; a ±2 mm error shifts resonance only ~0.5 MHz, which the wide-band design tolerates [ARRL Antenna Book, 2023].

Can I swap aluminum for steel if the dimensions match?

Yes for receive-only setups; steel’s conductivity is ~10 % of aluminum, adding roughly 0.1–0.3 dB loss—hard to notice [ARRL Antenna Book, 2023]. For transmit, aluminum avoids extra heating and corrosion. Keep the 2 mm wall for strength [Elektroda, generator, post #16939646]

Does painting or powder-coating affect gain or SWR?

No. VHF skin depth is ~5 µm, while paint is non-conductive and thinner, so RF current stays in the metal beneath. “Painting the antenna does not change anything in its parameters” [Elektroda, Krzysztof Kamienski, post #21011323]

What is the purpose of the 800 mm aluminum upper pipe?

It acts as a passive sleeve that is capacitively driven by the inner radiator, creating an “open-sleeve” antenna. This increases bandwidth to cover 144–174 MHz without tuning [Elektroda, c2h5oh, post #21020435] PVC will not work because it cannot carry RF currents—performance drops sharply, as one builder reported [Elektroda, piters33, post #21013832]

How do I tune the Radmor clone for a specific VHF sub-band?

Use this 3-step method:
  1. Assemble to nominal dimensions.
  2. Measure SWR; if the dip is low in frequency, shorten the upper sleeve by sliding it down 2–3 mm.
  3. If the dip is high, lengthen the sleeve or add half a coil turn. Repeat until SWR ≤ 1.5 [Elektroda, hetman bielawa, post #17649722]

How wide is the SWR bandwidth?

Builders report SWR ≤ 1.5 from 150 MHz to 174 MHz and ≤ 2.0 down to 144 MHz, matching factory specs [Radmor, Datasheet]. A mis-cut sleeve can narrow this to < 5 MHz—an edge-case often seen after hurried hacks [Elektroda, piters33, post #21020412]

What does the coil do and how critical is it?

The 4-turn, 12 mm-ID coil provides impedance matching between the feed and the sleeve pair. Using thinner wire or wrong spacing raises Q, leading to SWR spikes around 160 MHz [Elektroda, Sumar, post #16931998] Keep turns tight and evenly spaced within ±0.5 mm for repeatable results.

What common mistakes cause poor reception?

  1. Replacing the 800 mm aluminum sleeve with PVC, which kills coupling [Elektroda, piters33, post #21020412]
  2. Off-center radiator touching the sleeve; it detunes by >5 MHz.
  3. Water ingress into the coil; corrosion raises loss by ~0.5 dB [ARRL Antenna Book, 2023].

How do I keep the radiator centered inside the sleeve?

Slide two rubber or nylon spacers 120 mm from each end, then secure with a drop of silicone. Hetman Bielawa used red rubber disks after powder-coating [Elektroda, hetman bielawa, post #17648865] This maintains a uniform 2 mm gap, preventing random detuning.

Is aluminum or steel better for long-term outdoor use?

Aluminum forms a protective oxide and weighs 35 % less, reducing mast stress. Galvanized steel resists dents but can rust at cut edges, adding up to 0.2 dB loss after five years due to surface roughness [ARRL Antenna Book, 2023].

Does the Radmor clone radiate upward evenly?

Pattern tests show it is essentially omnidirectional with a low vertical take-off angle, identical to a vertical dipole (0 dBd gain) [Radmor, Datasheet]. Side lobes stay within –12 dB, so you can mount it without a rotator.
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