Improving Workshop Heating: Goat Stove, Webasto 3500 Dry, Wet Oil-Filled Radiator & Insulation

Hello. I have a workshop with dimensions of approximately 3x6x2m. Unfortunately, the room is not insulated. I have a goat stove with chamotte inserted. After about 30 minutes of smoking, it is warm thanks to the fact that I blown the stove. The air blows through the hot stove and it becomes warm. I would like to improve the heating because during frosts, when I am horny at 8 p.m. and I leave, it is cold when I enter the workshop again around 3 p.m. During this time, the temperature drops from about 22 to 2 degrees. I have a few ideas but I don't know if they're good. Dry Webasto 3500 costs about PLN 150. Webasto wet connected to the radiator and the whole thing is filled with oil, not glycol. The cost is about PLN 200-250. I was thinking about a pipe welded to the stove and a pump, something like a water jacket, but as in the case of webasto there would be a heater and oil. But I am afraid of this solution because the goat can become red hot. Please give me some advice and suggestions.

A tank with hot water, or connecting to a home central heating installation

And you don't take polystyrene insulation (from the inside) into account? You would have less smoking in winter and cooler indoors in summer.

It is not necessary to connect to the installation. This is the outbuilding that I am renting. The oil keeps heat for a long time, so I have an idea with this webasto coupled with a heater and filled with oil. Then maybe I would remove the goat and the ventilation that also blows but without it the goat would not have a draft.

The pan has a strong draft in the chimney. When the stove is burning, it burns nicely, but after it has been fired, the chimney draft still works and vents the room through the chimney. The stove should be sealed or replaced with one with tight doors. I have a similar solution, also improved with a fan and a I added 6 elbows and 4 chimney pipes and then let it into the chimney at the top, under the ceiling. This winter I only burned 2 bags of coal. I will add that on the chimney pipe I put a fireclay coil and I heat the water in the boiler for free. Tel. 699709665

MAREK MRK wrote:

Please give me some advice and suggestions.

Or he can do this - leave the goat as it is, just install a fan heater controlled by a timer switch. You set the switch so that the radiator turns on, for example, half an hour before you come to the garage. When you get there, the air will be preheated and you will light the goat. In these half an hour, when a goat takes over the heating function, you turn off the electric heater and you warm up in a classic way. In such a poorly insulated room, maintaining the temperature while you are away does not make sense because the costs will let you loose with your bags. It is better to heat the air directly - and the fan heater has the advantage that the feeling of heat appears almost immediately after its activation, and because it will work for a short time, it will not take much electricity.

Can I have photos of this construction please? Maybe I would use such a closed shutter for ventilation? If I don't smoke or leave the workshop, I close it. In the same way, close the stove as much as possible. I'll try to seal it. Maybe somehow make some extra water jacket but with oil and heater. He would probably keep you warm.

MAREK MRK wrote:

Maybe somehow make some extra water jacket but with oil and heater. He would probably keep you warm.

Oil has a lower heat capacity than water. A barrel of water would be a better heat accumulator, or bricking the goat with fireclay - you would have a simple storage stove. Though in your case, gathering heat is pointless in my opinion.

When I am not there, I admit that the temperature could drop to about 10 degrees, it is according to acceptable to me and not so lethal for electronics. If I did webasto, of course the control would be temperature dependent. It is turned on if the temperature drops below 10 degrees Celsius and it turns off at 20. As for fireclaying the goat, I don't see it well. The goat has fireclay in it and keeps warm for a while, but the temperature drops a lot. Fan heater, I thought about it, but the electricity costs would probably be deadly. It's not a problem that I have to fire the stove when I come. I'll smoke and it's okay, but it's about the temperature drop. As you know, electronics do not like low temperatures, and I feel sorry for the tools (oscilloscope, meters, power supplies), because there was no proprietary and cheap one.

MAREK MRK wrote:

Fan heater, I thought about it, but the electricity costs would probably be deadly.

Let's count. You can set up a webasto with an efficiency of about 80% by pouring fuel with a calorific value of 10 kWh / l (heating oil / diesel) into it. At the price of PLN 2.3 / l of heating oil, the cost of 1 kWh of heat will be almost PLN 0.30 / kWh. If you were to pour regular fuel from the station to it, the cost would be 2x higher. The fan heater has an efficiency of about 99% and the price of 1 kWh of electricity in G11 is PLN 0.55 / kWh. So the electricity in G11 is less than twice as expensive as heating oil. The difference is considerable, but it is difficult to talk about the lethality of electricity costs. With ordinary fuels, the costs will be similar.

Assuming that the average power of 1 kW would be enough to maintain the temperature at a reasonable level, 24 kWh of energy should be used daily (not counting heating with goat). With webasto heating, it costs PLN 7.2 / day and PLN 200 per month. But these are only loose calculations because I do not know the heat requirement of the building.

MAREK MRK wrote:

As for bricklaying the goat with fireclay, I see it a little poorly. The goat has fireclay in it and keeps warm for a while, but the temperature drops a lot.

If several dozen kilograms of fireclay fail to maintain the temperature, a few liters of oil will not be able to do much more. 1 kg of water brought to the boil stores only 0.1 kWh of energy. The oil has only worse parameters. And 1 kg of fireclay will store half as much heat as water - but it has a high density and therefore has a large accumulation mass.
Anyway, if the building is not sufficiently insulated, then no accumulation methods will help (because the size of the heat storage would be unacceptably large), energy will have to be supplied on an ongoing basis.

So we already know that webasto will be a little cheaper. I was still thinking about installing junkers and heaters. For this gas cylinder. I could get Junkers for ridiculous money.

MAREK MRK wrote:

For this gas cylinder.

Recently, when I was buying a gas cylinder, I paid PLN 44 - there is 11 kg in the cylinder. It is PLN 4 per kg. Passed Junkers are about 80% efficiency, and the calorific value of LPG is 12.5 kWh / kg. It is roughly PLN 0.40 / kWh. So much more expensive than heating oil. If you buy LPG a little cheaper, the cost of LPG will drop by a few cents, but it will still be more expensive than heating oil.

Ok. So we already know something. Maybe it would be even easier to just make some extra goat feeder? Or make some extra help. For example, I smoke in it normally and when I go out, instead of this round cover I put something on top ... I don't know what else and then it works for example on oil. Somewhere, I saw something like this permanently installed in a stove. It's just a loose idea, maybe bad and stupid, but let your colleagues comment on it. Oil is supplied by the controller with a valve and controlled by temperature. If the temperature would not rise after feeding the oil, it stopped feeding the oil so as not to flood everything with oil if it expired.

Xantix wrote:

MAREK MRK wrote:

For this gas cylinder.

Recently, when I was buying a gas cylinder, I paid PLN 44 - there is 11 kg in the cylinder. It is PLN 4 per kg. Passed Junkers are about 80% efficiency, and the calorific value of LPG is 12.5 kWh / kg. It is roughly PLN 0.40 / kWh. So much more expensive than heating oil. If you buy LPG a little cheaper, the cost of LPG will drop by a few cents, but it will still be more expensive than heating oil.

Contrary to popular belief, heating with electricity is not so expensive in some situations, there is no investment cost, goat, webasto, cylinder delivery, etc.

There is a goat, webasto costs about PLN 250 along with heaters and all the rest, and when it comes to electricity, I would have to buy a fan heater anyway.

MAREK MRK wrote:

Maybe it would be even easier to just make some extra goat feeder?

I don't know if it's easier. There are ready-made pellet feeders for installation in charging furnaces (e.g. in a goat), but it costs a few thousand. Doing much cheaper by yourself, it probably won't work out.

MAREK MRK wrote:

Somewhere, I saw something like this permanently installed in a stove. It's just a loose idea, maybe bad and stupid, but let your colleagues comment on it. Oil is supplied by the controller with a valve and controlled by temperature. If the temperature would not rise after feeding the oil, it stopped feeding the oil so as not to flood everything with oil if it expired.

Installing the IMHO goat oil burner makes little sense, because the goat has a poor heat exchanger and you will send a lot of heat into the chimney. Better to stay with classic webasto.

MAREK MRK wrote:

When I am not there, I admit that the temperature could drop to about 10 degrees, it is according to acceptable to me and not so lethal for electronics. If I did webasto, of course the control would be temperature dependent. It is turned on if the temperature drops below 10 degrees Celsius and it turns off at 20. As for fireclaying the goat, I don't see it well. The goat has fireclay in it and keeps warm for a while, but the temperature drops a lot. Fan heater, I thought about it, but the electricity costs would probably be deadly. It's not a problem that I have to fire the stove when I come. I'll smoke and it's okay, but it's about the temperature drop. As you know, electronics do not like low temperatures, and I feel sorry for the tools (oscilloscope, meters, power supplies), because there was no proprietary and cheap one.

If the devices are gathered in one place, think over the radiator placed directly on them, they are cheap in supermarkets, or several heating lamps, such as. "mother hens". For this switch with a thermostat. Such a set will heat where needed with little power, it should not ruin the budget. Storing energy in an under-insulated building is a bad idea.
The second idea I just had (maybe stupid ), it is a heating blanket, it already has a thermostat in it, you cover the equipment with it, some kind of duvet.

Radiant heaters and a blanket are not a stupid idea. I will certainly think about it. I did the test and left the 50L tank with hot water in the heated workshop. The heater is about 500W on at night and after about 12 hours in the workshop it is hot, but a little damp (not much because it was practically closed). So 500W managed to "reheat". These radiators are worth attention.

EDIT23.02:
I have to rearrange the furniture so that I have everything in one place and that it will be as easy to heat as possible and then I will start testing with radiators.
But now I have a question if the bimetallic thermostat is set to e.g. 10st. which will be, for example, between the oscilloscope and the power supply and 2 400W fan heaters connected to the thermostat and directed at the tools (including the thermostat) could pass the exam? The point is not to let the temperature drop so much on them. Unfortunately, it is already -16 and it will be even colder at the weekend. In the workshop, I suspect that it will be no less than 3 degrees.