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A/C Installation: Factory Refrigerant for 5m, Adding R410A for 6-7m Pipes, Measurement Accuracy

Jan_Werbinski 34599 34
Best answers

Should I add refrigerant for a 6–7 m R410A split installation when the extra charge is only about 10 g per meter and my scale is too inaccurate to measure it precisely?

Leave it as is if the only issue is a 10–20 g dosing error, because on a small split that amount is about 1% of the charge and is smaller than the error from the scale, hoses, and gauges. The factory charge is intended for up to 5 m, and beyond that the manufacturer’s extra charge rule should be followed in principle, but in practice experienced installers adjust by checking the system’s operating parameters rather than relying only on the table [#17267637][#17267646][#17269292] A slight under- or overcharge of a few tens of grams will not noticeably affect performance; the thread notes that serious problems start with much larger shortages, such as local icing, poorer efficiency, or compressor damage when refrigerant loss is significant [#17267646] If a company does add refrigerant, it should charge a bit more and then verify temperatures/overheating and remove or add refrigerant as needed, because the final operating state matters more than the exact theoretical value [#17267637][#17267646]
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #31 18000483
    kkk6969
    Level 15  
    Posts: 190
    Help: 2
    Rate: 58
    That is, desoldering the compressor (two February), pouring oil, vacuum, replacing the drier filter, flooding with oil, back soldering under nitrogen, daily vacuum, taking the factor and wio?
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  • #32 18000558
    jack63
    Level 43  
    Posts: 11703
    Help: 847
    Rate: 2768
    You forgot the weight and pressure test after soldering. This test may be part of the drying process
    During brazing, nitrogen is only supposed to fill the center of the pipe and protect its interior from scale formation. You must not pump the pressure, because you will either not solder or you will solder leaky.
    The second one is probably worse. Corrections can be made with solder with at least the same silver content in the solder.
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  • #33 18001636
    kkk6969
    Level 15  
    Posts: 190
    Help: 2
    Rate: 58
    Thanks for the info - I skipped that in the description because it was obvious to me :)
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  • #34 18005743
    kkk6969
    Level 15  
    Posts: 190
    Help: 2
    Rate: 58
    Well, I'm stuck. Compressor removed, standing upside down. About 100g of oil flew out and still doesn't want to. I can hear oil sloshing around when I turn the compressor. What to do to push it out? Nitrogen through the battery? can you help me?
  • #35 18005844
    jack63
    Level 43  
    Posts: 11703
    Help: 847
    Rate: 2768
    Rather aside. Through a liquid separator. Backwards.
    Need to wave a bit. Patience.

Topic summary

✨ The discussion revolves around the installation of air conditioning systems, specifically regarding the adequacy of factory refrigerant for pipe lengths exceeding 5 meters. Users express concerns about the accuracy of refrigerant measurement methods employed by installation companies, which often rely on low-resolution scales. The consensus suggests that experienced technicians may compensate for measurement inaccuracies by adjusting the refrigerant charge based on system performance. The conversation also touches on the necessity of proper vacuuming and pressure testing, with some users questioning the legality and safety of using unqualified personnel for installations. Additionally, there are discussions about the implications of refrigerant leaks and the importance of adhering to environmental regulations concerning refrigerant handling.
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FAQ

TL;DR: A ±10 g R410A error equals only 1 % on an 800 g split, and "the reading from the manometer gives a larger error" [Elektroda, Chris_W, post #17269292] Add 10 g per metre over 5 m; small deviations rarely harm output.

Why it matters: Understanding real tolerances saves money, protects hardware and keeps you inside F-Gas law.

Quick Facts

• Factory R410A charge covers the first 5 m of piping; add 10 g per extra metre [Elektroda, Jan_Werbinski, post #17267586] • Typical split holds 800 g; ±30 g (≈4 %) stays within manufacturer spec [Elektroda, Chris_W, #17269292; Daikin Tech Guide]. • Correct pressure test: 40 bar nitrogen for R410A systems [Elektroda, Jan_Werbinski, post #17269274] • Any installation or service requires personal and company F-Gas certificates, regardless of charge mass [Elektroda, Chris_W, post #17277850] • Basic legal tool kit (vacuum pump, gauges, nitrogen set, scale) costs ≈ PLN 8 000 [Elektroda, Jan_Werbinski, post #17277880]

My scale’s resolution is 20 g—how do installers handle such tiny doses?

Technicians usually over-fill slightly, listen for flow noise, then fine-tune by suction pressure and temperatures rather than the scale alone [Elektroda, pawel1148, post #17267646]

Is it safer to leave the factory charge untouched for a 6 m line?

Yes. Running on the original charge keeps you within ±1 % and avoids venting losses [Elektroda, Chris_W, post #17269292]

Are single-stage vacuum pumps acceptable for new installs?

Yes. They reach required 500 microns; they just need longer run time than two-stage pumps [Elektroda, Chris_W, post #17269292]

Can I pressure-test with compressed air from a diving tank?

Avoid it. Air contains 20 % oxygen; at high pressure oxygen can react with POE oil, raising fire risk [Elektroda, Chris_W, post #17273389]

What happens if the system loses 20 % of its refrigerant?

You can see local exchanger icing, 10–30 % efficiency loss and possible compressor damage [Elektroda, pawel1148, post #17267646]

Does Polish law require an F-Gas certificate for small splits under 3 kg?

Yes. Article 20 demands certified personnel for any installation or service involving F-gases, independent of charge size [Elektroda, Chris_W, post #17277850]

Can a hobbyist legally install a single household air-conditioner?

Only if certified or working under direct, documented supervision of a certificate holder, per EC 308/2008 Art 4 3 a [Elektroda, Jan_Werbinski, post #17277857]

3-step How-To: Replace compressor oil and dry the system

  1. Desolder compressor, drain oil fully by inverting and rocking until no sound.
  2. Re-braze under low-flow nitrogen, install new drier, pressure-test, then vacuum 24 h.
  3. Add fresh POE oil, hold 500 microns, charge by weight, run test [Elektroda, 18000483-18000558].

What tools and budget meet legal compliance for start-ups?

Expect PLN 8 000 for pump, manifold, calibrated scale, nitrogen regulator, leak detector and paperwork fees [Elektroda, Jan_Werbinski, post #17277880]

Why can oxygen under pressure ignite refrigeration oil?

Fire risk rises hundreds-fold as oxygen partial pressure climbs; pure or enriched oxygen can auto-ignite hydrocarbons [Elektroda, Chris_W, post #17273389]
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