Replacement of water pipes in the bathroom. Which system to choose?

I had the trouble of using it several times.

karolark wrote:

what defects does a colleague notice in him?

- pipe stiffness
- the necessity to use elbows at every turn
- the need to use a welding machine, which is hot, inconvenient to use (compared to Tece tools) and the welding process stinks (after that, the canister burst for two days)
- pipe thickness
- the formation of a "lip" on the weld from the inside (especially in the case of amateur performance)
- technology of making fittings with a thread, a sleeve with a thread pressed into the PP material, or poured into it at the production stage, somehow I do not see it if it is necessary to unscrew a solidly sealed thread
- not forgiving (to some extent) errors in the positioning of approaches / location of threaded elbows

I don't remember any more sins ;)

I read about PP on forums out of curiosity, maybe it is permanent, I do not deny it. But from my point of view - user and installer, it would be a shot in the knee

The truth is that Dear Steam, probably deals with this faculty professionally, since he has such expensive equipment to handle Tece. It is not surprising plumbers who have abandoned steel and galvanized pipes in favor of comfortable and fast pexes. It is known about execution time, cleanliness and comfort. The fact that, as pp writes, has rigid pipes and the need to use fittings at every turn, it certainly does not eliminate him from setting up such an installation for himself. After all, steel pipes are also stiff, you had to not only place fittings at every turn, but also get dirty with grease and tow. Anyway, in PP it is similar to how we want to screw the thread. I think that PP to be replaced at home, e.g. in the bathroom, such replacement or repair or a completely new pipe supply is suitable.

I'm just wondering why use a deburrer for pp pipes ... nowhere on YouTube, when I watched it, I did not see that they used it during assembly and gluing ...

The undeniable advantage of PP is the lack of bronze connecting elements as in the case of, for example, Tece, except for the connections. When repairing old installations, there are deposits in places where there was bronze, both in the case of copper and other installations.
Certainly, for connections and larger diameters, PP is more convenient than other systems.

zbigniewsk wrote:

Based on my experience, I have the most important advice, after the installation, whether it is PP, PEX, copper or steel, you should perform the so-called water pressure test for several hours. Such a test will possibly detect defects in the material used.

Have you heard about the "water hammer" method?
A solenoid valve is installed and opened and closed quickly many times. Thus creating large pressure surges.
Apparently, it's even better than a pressure test.
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uderzenie_hydrauliczne

Ssaab wrote:

I'm just wondering why use a deburrer for pp pipes ... nowhere on YouTube, when I watched it, I did not see that they used it during assembly and gluing ...

When you make a heating installation, stabi pipes with an aluminum layer are used. Before welding such a pipe has to be "peeled" from it.
I would add to the advantages of PP: greater smoothness of the walls, no stone overgrowth, chemical resistance (if, however, they were overgrown with ) and some kind of insulation compared to bare zinc or copper.

Covul wrote:

Ssaab wrote:

I'm just wondering why use a deburrer for pp pipes ... nowhere on YouTube, when I watched it, I did not see that they used it during assembly and gluing ...

When you make a heating installation, stabi pipes with an aluminum layer are used.

Do I have to use such a pipe to connect the hot water to the shower and washbasin? In both cases, the pipe will be about 1 meter. Are ordinary pp enough?

It has sections of 1 m, and here it is as if a colleague had a 5-story block for piping ...
Where is the place is PP
(but a welding machine is needed),
how less is twisted PEX (it's easy to find fittings - 2 wrenches or a calibrator are enough), how do you have where to borrow PEX crimped,
possibly some glued system.
There is probably no point in investing in tools up to 3 meters of tubing ...

This is how I read my colleagues' statements and say so much, I do a lot of installations and connections, and only when I hear that it will be in TC, I know that I will have all my hands scratched from pressing electro crimping tools because manual ones suck and please calibrate 32 TC in the flue gas shaft .. .a welder falls in and is oki

Tc is oki because there are no O-rings for sealing, and we do not really know how many pipes have entered the connector because the ring has not tightened so I go PP



ps, sometimes it gets 10 floors and usually TC and PEX there

I presented my opinion and advice (and even a proposal of help on the spot) to my colleague.
He will do as he sees fit
I do not want to write more posts that do not contribute much to the topic, so I will answer a few questions in one and disappear :)

Ssaab wrote:

... Steam probably deals with this faculty professionally ...

Yes, I do, among others, plumbing installations and bathrooms are my specialty, so I recommend this and no other system.

Ssaab wrote:

... has such expensive equipment to handle Tece.

Tools for Teka are not that expensive, I paid about PLN 500 for mine about 5 years ago (of course, for one bathroom it makes no sense).

Ssaab wrote:

... get dirty with grease and tow.

The hemp grease is used as a last resort, and there are special pastes for this.

nuszek wrote:

When repairing old installations, we have build-ups in places where there was bronze ...

I haven't seen anything like this yet, but it's all ahead of me :)

kudłaty79 wrote:

Yes, I read my colleagues' statements and say so much, I do a lot of installations and connections and only when I hear that it will be in TC, I know that I will have all my hands scratched from pressing electro crimping tools because manual ones suck and please calibrate 32 TC in the flue gas shaft .. .a welder pops in and is ok

Tc is oki because there are no O-rings for sealing, and we do not really know how many pipes have entered the connector because the ring has not tightened so I go PP



ps, sometimes it gets 10 floors and usually TC and PEX there

As a rule, I see PP in shafts, I very rarely see anything else.

I calibrated the 32 mm diameter and clamped it with Tece hand tools, it was not easy, but it would be fine, although in a tight shaft I would rather invest in electric.

When placing the pipe on the fitting, you can see how many pipes have been inserted, it has to pass a minimum of notches on the fitting, the sleeve will not tighten it much more, but it does not have to be.

The End

See you later

Steam, thanks for sharing your experience. Due to the fact that you live in the Tri-City area, maybe you could share information about the company you recommend PP pipes and fittings? Where is the best place to buy, or in supermarkets, where is it worth it? If so, what company? What do you think about Idmar?

Ssaab wrote:

What do you think about Idmar?

Chinese food.

You are probably wrong - Idmar is a Polish producer, it's not nice to write like that without checking, and the fact that it is in supermarkets is not a reason to dig ...

Prefabricated blocks have higher water pressures than in single-family houses, and there is also water hammer. Therefore, I advise against copper. PVC glued in the same way.
The best in this case will be welded PP and crimped PEX.
PP is very durable and relatively easy to install, but requires some practice, because a badly welded fitting or a poorly prepared pipe may come off after some time. In addition, too long heating causes the pipes to close. Amateurs make this mistake quite often. Unfortunately, PP pipes are quite thick and the couplings are also thick. By adding a cover, it often turns out that it is even difficult to hide such pipes under the KG slab. Cramming such pipes into walls is often impossible.

In this case, PEX pipes are much better, because both pipes and couplings are thinner. If the installation is to be hidden under the plaster or under the KG slab, it must be a clamped system.
I advise against shopping on the internet and in supermarkets. Only and exclusively in wholesalers who respect installers.
In supermarkets, they are usually cheaper on sale, but also much weaker, PE-RT-Al_PE-RT, and not PEX pipes. These pipes are only suitable for floor heating and should not be used for utility water, especially hot utility water.

The PEX pipes themselves are also cross-linked by various methods. PEXc-Al-PEXc pipes are the best. But let's face it, such a pipe has to cost, because production technology is expensive. After production, such pipes are sent to Switzerland, where in a special underground bunker these pipes are cross-linked with accelerated electrons. There are only a few companies that produce PEX pipes. What is available for sale are only brands. The same pipe from the same factory may be sold under different brands.
While we will buy any PE-RT-Al-PE-RT for PLN 1.50 / m, we have to pay PLN 3-4 / m for PEXc-Al-PEXc.

Added after 8 [minutes]:

mychaj wrote:

You are probably wrong - Idmar is a Polish producer, it's not nice to write like that without checking, and the fact that it is in supermarkets is not a reason to dig ...

The producer you say?
Are you able to indicate exactly what this manufacturer produces?

mychaj wrote:

You are probably wrong - Idmar is a Polish producer, it's not nice to write like that without checking, and the fact that it is in supermarkets is not a reason to dig ...

More like a packer. He buys in China and sells under his logo.

When it comes to PEX, Kisan is definitely produced in Poland.
Kisan
However, the rest is imported from China or the EU.
From what I associate, Idmar pulls from China.
Anyway, it is enough to compare the price of Idmar pipes in Leroy Merlin with the price of Kisan pipes in an installation wholesaler.

Cheap, good, durable and easy, i.e. PP.
When I hear about the lifetime of a system, I ask: his or mine ...
If the connector falls in 10 years, it will be her life sentence.
Seriously, all systems with metal in fittings or pipes are very exposed to the random chemical composition of the water. Manufacturers say that they are very durable under laboratory conditions, in Germany, not Poland.
More than once I've seen dezincification brass fittings, especially pex twisted fittings, which cracked or leaked after a few years in hard, non-iron-free water from the well, not from the water supply.
I am curious what will happen with the pressed pexes in 20 years in such conditions
Same with zinc; pipes are overlaid with calcium, iron compounds, etc.
And here I am for PP - a material very resistant to chemical influences, homogeneity and continuity of the same material.

Installing pex from 2007 nothing happens. But if it rains, I will write it.

I have a whole house in PEX from 95 and no breakdown either ...
and water from deep wells treated only with filters, pressure on the switch from 2.5 to 3.5.

I've had everything in pex since 2002 and nothing is leaking, but no joints in the ITP floor.
But I have already seen such breakdowns from dezincification fittings.

Ssaab wrote:

which company do you recommend PP pipes and fittings? Where is the best place to buy, or

A good friend from an installation wholesaler recommends Vesbo PP.

I do not know if it is in supermarkets, you will probably get it in some warehouse, with an invoice for a construction company, there will also be a discount.
Unless you want to go to Gdynia on ul. Hutnicza, there will be a rebate for sure