If 100% of the installation is equipped with heaters, then the CO buffer will be discharged quickly, and thus it will not function as an energy accumulator.
it is necessary to adjust the buffer capacity so that it will be sufficient for heating only during the night tariff, if not throughout the heating season, then at least for the greater part. The problem may be the physical availability of space for such a buffer and the necessary equipment. In an insulated building, adjusting the radiators to the 55/45 boiler water for frost -20 is not a major problem, so you can also do something with the radiators.
Of course, each case is different, the choice of the buffer is ultimately decided after the inspection of the installation site, because each installation is different, i.e. the energy class of the building, the possible percentage of underfloor heating to radiator heating, pipe diameters, the amount of water in the installation, etc.
Electronics heating a house with the efficiency of a heater is an excess of form over content. Additional unwanted emission of electromagnetic field to the sides and those reactive powers ... ehh. I join the question @ kosmos99.
If 100% of the installation is equipped with heaters, then the CO buffer will be discharged quickly, and thus it will not function as an energy accumulator.
In an insulated building, adjusting the radiators to the 55/45 boiler water for frost -20 is not a major problem, so you can also do something with the radiators.
Of course, each case is different, the choice of the buffer is ultimately decided after the inspection of the installation site, because each installation is different, i.e. the energy class of the building, the possible percentage of underfloor heating to radiator heating, pipe diameters, the amount of water in the installation, etc.
I am also interested in answering the question from post 29.
I built my house in 2000 - walls / checkered brick + 16 cm polystyrene + checkered / - 53 cm thick - double glazing - area approx. 150 m2 / compact body of the building / - energy demand indicator 133 kWh / m2 - according to some calculator
Heating: - Buderus G115 boiler with a tank / oil - used from 2000 to 2006 - when the price of heating oil went crazy / works in the months from May to September - SEKO 25 kW boiler - for eco-pea coal from 2007 to today - works from October to April - Cu Convector heaters - Cu installation
The life of the SEKO boiler is 13 years, so I am thinking about the possibilities of changing the heat source using the existing heating installation. As I see the dilemma of what source to choose, it is not only me that I have, so please give a reliable answer to the question asked in post 29 and present the calculations for the above data of my house. Of course, I assume that I will have to add PV to an induction boiler or a heater with heaters.
There was an awkward silence because no one would prove the superiority of the induction boiler over the heaters by using a buffer. And even more so with its price many times higher than for heaters. @Alamut, from what you have given, the demand for heat is 19950kWh per year. It's just for CO. It is not a very warm house for 2000. Even a little colander.
As if you switched to electricity from oil and peas, extra electricity for CO would cost you about PLN 12,000 a year in the G11 or about PLN 7,000 in the variant with a buffer, mainly in the G12 tariff.
To cover the demand of 100% of electricity for such heating from photovoltaics, you would have to have about 28kWp of photovoltaic panels (because with such a demand, the ZE warehouse gives back only 0.7 of the energy produced in the summer). Some cosmos. Both with the number of panels and the size of the connection.
When I see the dilemma of what source to choose, not only me [...] Of course, I assume that I will have to add PV to an induction boiler or a heater with heaters.
I wouldn't have a dilemma. I treat the question from post # 29 as rhetorical and there will be no answer to it. For me, an induction boiler has no advantage over heaters, so why overpay. And the amount of energy needed to heat the building will be constant and will not be changed by the heat source. Only a heat pump can provide an advantage, which will give 1kWh as heat, e.g. 4kWh, from the mains, but this benefit is not for free and you have to spend more money first. When using electricity for heating purposes, night tariffs remain, e.g. in G12 1kWh costs approximately PLN 0.31. Only a total of 10 hours a day with cheaper energy is not enough to heat the whole day, so you need a heat buffer with an appropriate capacity, or heat enough for the windows of expensive energy. But the heat buffer is also not for free, you have to buy it, etc. However, taking into account the costs of purchasing an induction boiler, if I have a house, I would prefer to buy a 1000/15000/2000 l buffer depending on the needs and a heater of appropriate power.
Alamut wrote:
- area approx. 150 m2 / compact body of the building / - energy demand indicator 133 kWh / m2 - according to some calculator
I see it like this: 150 m2 * 133 kWh / m2 = 19,950 kWh per year. The warm side actually assumes that the heating season is about 172 days long. 19,950kWh / 172 days = 116 kWh / day which gives an average power of 4.83kW.
Let's assume you need a constant power of 4.9 kW on average. In the G12 tariff, the expensive daily tariff is 7h from the morning and the second 7h in the afternoon. 7 h * 4.9 kW = 34.3kWh, that is, your buffer must accumulate rounded 35kWh. You would have to have a 1500 l buffer, for a temperature difference of 20 degrees you will get approx. 34.9 kWh. But taking into account that the cheap energy is only for 2 hours in the afternoon, you would have to have 18kW heaters to recharge your buffer within 2 hours and it lasted for another 7 hours. With a greater demand for energy, you would have to heat up with daily energy, which is approx. 2.5 times more expensive.
There is no ideal and there will always be some, but I cannot imagine flying to the boiler room and adding coal, etc. I would rather pay a few thousand for a dedicated buffer and have peace of mind and maintenance-free heating. Possibly have electric for most of the season, and a coal-fired boiler would be in reserve for severe frosts.
Added after 2 [minutes]:
Wojewoda82 wrote:
Did you not exaggerate with these 133kWh / m2?
in my opinion it is also exaggerated, but that's not the point. A colleague wonders, among others over an induction boiler, and for me there is nothing to think about, because it's a waste of money.
Added after 20 [minutes]:
Alamut wrote:
- Cu Convector heaters
when working with a buffer, it is advisable that the heaters should be able to heat the rooms with the boiler water approx. 40 degrees, because then you heat the buffer to e.g. 60 degrees and you have accumulated energy. If you heat the buffer to 70, you have more heat energy in the buffer. I do not know what water temperature your current radiators require, so it may turn out that it is worth oversizing the radiators to heat the medium with a lower temperature. The floor heating works best with the buffer, because it requires a low water temperature, so heating the water to 60 degrees is a large dose of energy.
It is worth remembering that what is a set of connected vessels and all elements must be harmonized and properly matched.
Approx. Let's compare the use of the Pereko 10kW induction boiler with a buffer for a tank with installed heaters with a total power of 10kW. What rewards about twenty times higher investment cost when using your boiler?
How's what? Snobbery and what a great feeling that your neighbor cannot afford it. Of course, until he realizes that he is not only a snob, but above all a sucker :)
I love listening to the producers' statements. Competition, but the same topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNiVj7961hI " I don't have any service. They are basically maintenance-free except for changing the water once in a while. It is impossible to say exactly what, how many, because water in Poland is not standardized and has different conductivity. Too. It depends on the conductivity of the water. At least once a year and most often once a month. "
And here's even better genius https://youtu.be/puRMeMpvV_8?t=146 " There are no heaters, no heaters, because the efficiency, the heater itself, and as a result, it has an efficiency of about 20-30 percent, because the rest goes to resistance, heating, fireclay, passing it all together. "
I really recommend it - much better than the best cabarets :)
Added after 1 [hours] 1 [minutes]:
Alamut wrote:
I am also interested in answering the question from post 29.
In my opinion, induction boilers have no pluses. Theoretically, they are more durable than other electric heating systems, but it applies only to the heating element. It's just that in order for this element to heat, such a boiler must have a fairly complex power supply and control system, and these are unreliable. They have a slightly lower efficiency than a heater because some of the electricity is converted into a diffused magnetic field.
Nothing completely justifies their high price.
To be able to use the 2nd tariff electricity, you still need a large buffer in the form of a large water tank or floor heating. Electric heater with a capacity of 6kW costs about PLN 400-600. But you need a team of 2-3 such heaters. Even if it was to be replaced every 5-10 years, the cost of replacing these heaters may still be lower than the cost of servicing an induction boiler.
Alamut wrote:
I built my house in 2000 - walls / checkered brick + 16 cm polystyrene + checkered / - 53 cm thick - double glazing - area approx. 150 m2 / compact body of the building / - energy demand indicator 133 kWh / m2 - according to some calculator
If this indicator is correct, you need almost 20MWh of electricity to heat the house. If you were to buy this energy in one tariff, you would cost about 13-14 thousand. zloty. If you would get this energy only from the second tariff, you would have a cost of about 6-6.5 thousand. zloty.
In order for you to be able to produce your own energy from photovoltaics, fully covering the demand, you would need a photovoltaic installation with a capacity of approx. 22-25kW. The cost of assembling such an installation is over PLN 60,000. zloty.
The cost of installing an air heat pump is 25-30 thousand. zloty. The pump has a year-round COP of around 3 for your radiator system. Thus, the cost of electricity purchased only in one tariff is approx. PLN 4.5-5 thousand. zloty. The cost of electricity purchased for such a pump only in the second tariff is approx. PLN 2-2.5 thousand. zloty.
To supply the heat pump with your own electricity, you would have to have a 7-8kW photovoltaic installation, the cost of which is about PLN 20,000. zloty.
The cost of installing a gas boiler is approx. PLN 15-20 thousand. PLN, assuming that there is no gas connection yet. If there is no gas network in the area, the cost of installing the gas boiler and cylinder is similar to the above
The gas boiler will burn about 2200-2400 m3 of gas from the network, and the cost of this gas is about PLN 4-4.5 thousand. zloty In the case of propane (gas from cylinders), the cost will increase to approx. PLN 5.5-6.5 thousand. zloty. Much depends on the suppliers and whether you have your own cylinder or you rent it.
How's what? Snobbery and what a great feeling that your neighbor cannot afford it. Of course, until he realizes that he is not only a snob, but above all a sucker
Probably nobody is talking about snobbery in this forum - rather about rationalism.
I thought about the Pereko induction furnace because of its reliability, because what can go wrong in a furnace with a transformer in a housing made of acid. On the other side to consider is an electric heater with a heater - which needs to be replaced every few years. Maybe someone will give information on the forum how often he changes the heaters in such a furnace? By the way, my greatest curiosity is the lack of posts from people who have induction furnaces.
I like to operate on numbers, because only then are these strong arguments before making a decision. The cost of purchasing and installing any device is not the only data to be taken into account, it should also include more and more expensive service / inspections / and any parts that may break. That's why I rejected the heat pump at the outset.
In my previous email, I mentioned an energy requirement of 135 kWh / m2. I downloaded this data from a simple calculator / attached /. Does anyone know a good calculator to calculate the energy consumption of a building?
Maybe if we managed to get through the correct calculation of heat demand, maybe we will be able to create a correct calculation model for CO modernization for specific houses and with specific parameters.
PEREKO induction boiler. It is worth considering the long-term investment. 20-year warranty. 5-year unconditional warranty. Limited inspections to a minimum. No moving parts. High efficiency of the device. No parts immersed in liquid. Polish product. Zero Chinese food. A company with an established position on the market. Service and distribution throughout Poland. Warmth in every home, with every type of installation. Individual consulting.
PEREKO induction boiler. It is worth considering the long-term investment. 20-year warranty. 5-year unconditional warranty. Limited inspections to a minimum. No moving parts. High efficiency of the device. No parts immersed in liquid. Polish product. Zero Chinese food. A company with an established position on the market. Service and distribution throughout Poland. Warmth in every home, with every type of installation. Individual consulting.
First, we wait for the answer to the question:
kosmos99 wrote:
Approx. Let's compare the use of the Pereko 10kW induction boiler with a buffer for a tank with installed heaters with a total power of 10kW. What rewards about twenty times higher investment costs when using your boiler?
There is nothing there to compare the costs of heating with gas, coal, buffer with heaters and your boiler. He only writes about the efficiency of the boiler, which is 98.6%, and it practically does not differ from the efficiency of an ordinary heater. So what is the advantage of the Pereko boiler over the heaters? Only without marketing gibberish please ...
If we play with links, I will paste my approximate calculation.
https://cieplowlasciwie.pl/wynik/9sog in the middle of the page is the calculation of approximate heating costs depending on the source of thermal energy and the type of heating device.
It comes out that when paying for gas PLN 1600, having your boiler instead of a gas boiler in the G11 tariff, I would pay PLN 4300, and having the same boiler of yours but already with a buffer and the g12 tariff PLN 2200. Still a lot more expensive and paying a lot for the boiler (plus where will I put the buffer?). So how is this supposed to be economically?
Comparing the PEREKO boiler and electric convector heaters, the operating costs will be practically identical, but the investment costs will be to a great disadvantage of PEREKO.
Comparing the PEREKO boiler with a buffer and heaters with a buffer, the investment costs also strongly disadvantage the induction boiler at the same operating costs.
I will not even comment on heating for zero with photovoltaics on your side, where for a building of energy class B you propose 16.6kWp of photovoltaics, which is not for free. With a promotional cost of PLN 3,500 / kWp, this gives an investor's cost of PLN 58,000 for the panels themselves (whether such power will be available, will there be space on the roof, and that it will cause local disturbance of the power grid, not to mention)
Ah, the first forum post and an advertisement for an electrode boiler right away. These bills are from what time, August, September?
The first house comes out about 400kWh per month, daily 13.3kWh, the hourly demand is just over 0.55kWh. Who are you kidding? For a house 150m, not insulated?
PLN 250 can be used by a family of 4 in the summer for household electricity (about PLN 100) and for DHW heating (PLN 150). No heating
I can see more and more intrusive propaganda of producers and sellers of electrode boilers. Catching suckers on thematic forums.
I do not know such results if it would be possible to obtain a passive / zero-energy house, where such a house is a total thermos. Still with mechanical ventilation and heat recovery. With these 250 and 150, I think there was no zero at the end per month.
I am not any manufacturer or trader .. I change boiler rooms myself because I am fed up with burning in the furnace .. A friend of mine has a heat pump for 5 years 8 he has been billed every month for PLN 1,500. Another spent 40 thousand on the pump and in November now 300 PLN for the electricity for the pump, house insulated 120 ..
Before I bought a stove, I was with a few people and I saw how it works .. The stove is turned on for 1 minute and then turned off for 15 minutes. When the temperature drops by 2 degrees, it turns on again for a minute .. I saw the bills and that convinced me.
You dont say. Since a heat pump with 1kWh of electricity makes about 3kWh of heat and you think that an electrode boiler will come out cheaper, which makes up to 0.99kWh of heat from 1kWh of electricity, you are wrong.
Since the boiler is turned on for a minute and then 15 minutes it does not heat up, it is probably only because the building hardly needed any heating and it was more or less September and 15 degrees outside. Come to those who have installed these boilers now, with temperatures around 0 degrees outside, see how this boiler now turns on and how many kWh of electricity is consumed per day. And this is just a small waste to wear in the cold.
If someone, while heating with a heat pump, spent PLN 1500 on the bill every month, he was probably heating a leaky 500m2 palace, without any insulation, with holes in the windows.
You can't fool nature and physics. If your house needs, for example, 10,000kWh of heat throughout the entire heating season, this is what you need to provide. The heat pump will use about 3,300kWh of electricity to provide as much heat as the building requires, and the electrode boiler will use about 10,100kWh of electricity. So how can an electrode boiler be more economical? You deny the laws of physics, you invented a perpetual motion machine, I think you deserve the Nobel Prize.
I look forward to your heating summary for the entire heating season along with your bills. Since you now had a coal boiler and coal for about PLN 800-900 / ton, expect the CO costs to increase by 2.5-3 times. How much coal did you burn annually?
By the way, since someone installed a 10kW boiler, as you write in the first post, it means that more or less (with a slight margin) has the maximum demand for the greatest frosts calculated. This 10kW boiler power means that when it will work all the time / almost all the time during the most cold weather, it will use 10kWh every hour, 240kWh daily, 7200kWh monthly. It is priced in G11, PLN 6 / h, PLN 144 / day, and now, note, PLN 4320 / month of frosts. Bankruptcy like nothing.
for me this is nonsense in itself. Currently, the building must meet the minimum standards for thermal insulation, so writing about a non-insulated building built in 2020 is pure manipulation.
Tom2349 wrote:
The stove is turned on for 1 minute and then turned off for 15 minutes. When the temperature drops by 2 degrees, it turns on again for a minute ..
What does the temperature drop 2 degrees in 15 minutes?
Tom2349 wrote:
I am not any manufacturer or trader ..
I do not know who you are, but your theses are as credible as, for example, today's snowstorm, which was at my place and it poured so much snow that I cannot go out on the street and I am cut off from the world. Ladies of the winter of the millennium
I am not any manufacturer or trader .. I change boiler rooms myself because I am fed up with burning in the furnace .. A friend of mine has a heat pump for 5 years 8 he has been billed every month for PLN 1,500. Another spent 40 thousand on the pump and in November now 300 PLN for the electricity for the pump, house insulated 120 ..
Before I bought a stove, I was with a few people and I saw how it works .. The stove is turned on for 1 minute and then turned off for 15 minutes. When the temperature drops by 2 degrees, it turns on again for a minute .. I saw the bills and that convinced me.
Forgive me, you're either a marketing trickster or a naive and ignorant investor. What you wrote is utter nonsense and colleagues are trying to make you aware of it. 1500 PLN bills for a heat pump with a ground heat exchanger for new, well-insulated houses and heating in the 2nd energy tariff, people pay for the entire heating season, not for a month. Just take into account that such a heat pump has an average COP of approx. 4, i.e. it provides 4kWh of heat from 1 kWh of electricity. Thus, the heating efficiency of such a pump is approx. 400% An electric furnace, whether it be induction, electrode or with heaters (resistance furnace), has an efficiency slightly lower than 100%. The Pereko induction furnace has an efficiency of 98.6%, i.e. it will provide 0.986 kWh of heat from 1 kWh of electricity.
PS The electric heater has a higher efficiency because it has lower losses in the scattered magnetic and electromagnetic field.
If someone at the heat pump pays the bill for the entire heating season PLN 1,500, then while heating with an electric stove (no matter what induction, electrode or resistance) he will have to pay a little over PLN 6,000 for the heating season, assuming that he will only use the 2nd energy tariff.
The advantage of induction furnaces over resistance furnaces (those with a heater) is the exceptional durability of the heating elements, because there is nothing to break down there. But such a furnace has electronics that are just as unreliable as in any other furnace, and maybe even more unreliable, because in such a furnace there is a frequency converter operating at higher frequencies and very high currents. Elements heat up more than in other heating devices. As a result, the capacitors dry up and the semiconductor elements are subject to extreme stress. In addition, there is a large transformer inside, the repair or replacement of which in the event of damage is very expensive - much more expensive than replacing the electric heater in the resistance furnace or replacing the heater in the buffer. The fact that it is a durable element.
Unfortunately, Mr. Pereko engineering he is a plain marketing trickster who wrote: " PEREKO induction boiler. It is worth considering the long-term investment. 20-year warranty. 5-year unconditional warranty. Limited inspections to a minimum. "
So let's read what the warranty conditions are.
1.The producer of PEREKO boilers is Envo sp. Z oo with its seat in Starachowice, ul. Radomska 76.
2. The manufacturer guarantees the compliance of the device with the technical documentation.
3. During the warranty period, the manufacturer undertakes to remove any defects in the device resulting from the manufacturer's fault.
4. The beginning of the warranty period for the PEREKO boiler is the date of purchase confirmed by the proof of purchase.
5. The warranty card is invalid without the date, stamp and signatures of the manufacturer, point of sale, seller and user.
6. In case of losing the warranty card or the commissioning certificate - duplicates will not be issued.
7. The warranty card as well as the commissioning certificate are the only documents entitling the buyer to a free warranty repair.
8. The manufacturer guarantees the correct operation of the ? boiler for a period of 2 years. The manufacturer guarantees the correct operation of the control unit for a period of 2 years.
9. The manufacturer provides an additional 20-year warranty for the boiler transformer with a built-in stainless steel exchanger, as well as for the boiler casing. The manufacturer provides a 2-year warranty for the remaining construction elements.
10. Privileges and maintenance conditions of the 20-year warranty for the ? induction boiler: o The condition for receiving the 20-year warranty in accordance with the conditions described in this document is to register your device after installation and commissioning on the Manufacturer's website: client.pereko.pl. Applications for the program can be made no later than 3 months from the date of installation of the boiler and no later than 6 months from the date of purchase of the boiler o Carrying out paid service inspections of the installed devices every 2 years o The manufacturer declares that the first 5 years of the warranty is an unconditional warranty and during this period there is no need to perform service inspections.
First, why nonsense .. The house has not yet been inhabited without styrofoam insulation.
The stove is turned on every 15 minutes so that the temperature of the heaters is 40 degrees. When it drops to 38, it turns on .. What's wrong with that..
The 10 kw kiln takes 4 to 5 hours a day. Bake for 1000 PLN. You can continue to write your dyrdymały, Install mechanical pumps for 50,000 and then look for the causes of faults on the Internet .. The forums are full of errors from electronics to the tightness of the system to the topic of heaters and electricity, how much these pumps consume ... Here, the installation of the furnace costs several hundred zlotys and the furnace itself is not much more.
Added after 4 [minutes]:
I don't know anyone who has a ground pump. Everyone is assembling the air heat pump ..
I heard that someone spent 150,000 digging a plot of land to have it in the ground and pumping 4 tons of fluid ...
Below zero air pumps activate the heaters. Those who have and I have several friends, on average, at 100 meters, they pay 300 PLN for electricity to the pump itself.
First, why nonsense .. The house has not yet been inhabited without styrofoam insulation.
The stove is turned on every 15 minutes so that the temperature of the heaters is 40 degrees. When it drops to 38, it turns on .. What's wrong with that..
Currently, they have to be heated to such a temperature that the installations do not freeze. So far this year, maybe there were a few days when the temperature dropped below zero. Even then, there was no need to start heating in such a house, because there was no chance that anything would freeze. But wait until they live in this house and start heating normally to 20-22'C inside. If the temperature drops below -10'C, a thousand zlotys in a month will not be enough.
Tom2349 wrote:
The 10 kw kiln takes 4 to 5 hours a day. Bake for 1000 PLN.
Where did you lose one zero? :)
Tom2349 wrote:
You can continue to write your dyrdymały, Install mechanical pumps for 50,000 and then look for the causes of faults on the Internet ..
Currently, the cost of a heat pump with an air exchanger with assembly is approx. PLN 30 thousand. zloty.
Tom2349 wrote:
The forums are full of errors from electronics to the tightness of the system to the topic of heaters and electricity, how much these pumps consume ... Here, the installation of the furnace costs several hundred zlotys and the furnace itself is not much more.
ROTFL Like an induction furnace is to eliminate all these problems?
Tom2349 wrote:
I don't know anyone who has a ground pump. Everyone is assembling the air heat pump ..
Because they are easier to install, and you have 20-30 thousand in your pocket. zloty.
Tom2349 wrote:
I heard that someone spent 150,000 digging a plot of land to have it in the ground and pumping 4 tons of fluid ...
And I heard that 300,000, and "no reason I'll say five hundred".
Tom2349 wrote:
Below zero air pumps activate the heaters.
"You know bells ring somewhere, but you don't know which church" Currently produced air heat pumps, even the cheapest ones, work with a COP above 1 to -20'C, and there are also those to -30'C. The heaters are activated only when the pump has no place to get heat to defrost the heat exchanger, but if the house has an underfloor heating system or the radiator system has a heat buffer, the pump takes cheap heat from the installation instead of activating the heater. The heat that the pump generated early, while consuming several times less electricity.
Tom2349 wrote:
Those who have and I have several friends, on average, at 100 meters, they pay 300 PLN for electricity to the pump itself.
Buddy, "you're getting lost in the testimony." First, you wrote that they pay PLN 1,500 per month, and now PLN 300. And the latter amount is closerthe truth, because that's how much people actually pay for the electricity that powers a heat pump in the coldest months. Outside of these months, the bills are smaller.
After the turn .. My close friend has had a pump for 5 years ... He pays 1500 PLN for electricity to it every month. Terraced house... He installed the second one two months ago .. It was PLN 300 in October and PLN 400 in November. New heat pump ..
As for the electrode furnaces. They cost from 600 PLN without drivers. There are plenty of companies. Starting from Ruthenian to Polish ...
I wouldn't be into it if I hadn't seen the others myself ...
I do not want to spend 50 thousand on equipment and then every year warranty service and worry about what will freeze.
I installed it a few days ago. I bought a 1000 liter buffer and I have great heat at home. I have a stove for 2 minutes, 10 minutes of rest.
I will install the tech drivers next week, the stove will only work in the cheapest tariff ..
You can laugh, but after a week of calculations, I already know that I will be much cheaper than eco-pea coal.
If your stove works at full power, on average, 2 minutes for 10 minutes, it will turn on 5-6 times per hour, consuming a total of approx. 2kWh with a power of 10kW. It is an ordinary farelka that will use up the same amount of energy in an hour. I assume that everyone has had contact with the farelka and knows how much heat it can generate; I personally find it suitable for heating the bathroom or the legs under the desk. I really don't know how much energy can heat a large and non-insulated house, because even from a heat pump it will be about 8kWh at its best and it is also not much for typical uninsulated houses. I greet and wish you well-being for the purchase of such an efficient heat source.
A friend who heats the house he does not live in, keeps it at 23 degrees. It still has a construction current ..
In smaller houses, such a stove is turned on for 1 minute, once every half an hour .. Please take this into account and don't count that the stove is running all the time.
I have aluminum radiators, a large house, and no floor heating. Installation on pvc. The electrode furnace just right
Added after 8 [minutes]:
I have 5 quarters. I have never written anywhere that I have 10 quarters. Usable area of 450 meters. The activity is in the basement plus ground floor and first floor.
Next week, he is installing meters and drivers. I will give it exactly.
I have a tariff for three zones. From 9 p.m. to 7 a.m. and from 1 p.m. to 4 p.m. I have the cheapest and I want to heat this tariff ... I'm just wondering whether the buffer should be heated overnight at 90 or 60 degrees, but I will test it.
Tech i3 plus driver Plus mixing valves for each level .. Electronic pumps
There is silence in the boiler room, you cannot hear anything ...
I installed it a few days ago. I bought a 1000 liter buffer and I have great heat at home. I have a stove for 2 minutes, 10 minutes of rest.
Now read what you wrote today in post # 44 at 9:22:
Tom2349 wrote:
I met a few people who have electrode boilers. They have ordinary houses ..
1. Uninsulated house, 150 m Electricity bills for a stove - a separate meter is about PLN 250 per month. Bake 10
2. Non-insulated house, 150 m, built this year Electricity bills for a stove - a separate meter is about PLN 150 per month. Bake 6
These two people don't have a cheaper tariff or a buffer. The second one even has a construction current
I'm in the process of assembling myself ...
I have a few conclusions: 1. Since the friend from point 2 has an "ordinary", uninsulated house built in 2020, uses the C11 tariff (for companies) and pays PLN 150 / month, what is the point of buying a 1000 l buffer? Why do you want to use the night tariff when it's almost free in C11 I ignore the fact that in the C11 tariff the subscription itself is several dozen zlotys per month and it finally turned out that it is a house under construction and no one lives there.
2. This morning at 9:22 am you were in the process of assembly, and then on the same day at 1:05 pm you are already a few days after assembly and you are the happy owner of the 1000 l buffer and it is very warm. You know, the heat will be regardless of the heating used, as long as the thermal power will be matched to the real demand, so returning super heat means nothing, it is not the merit of the boiler.
3. Assuming that you have a 10kW boiler, which works in constant cycles of 2 minutes of heating and 10 minutes of break, this gives 120 boiler activations per day, i.e. 4 hours of continuous heating. 4 h * 10 kW = 40 kWh / day. In the G11 tariff, you have about PLN 0.62 / kWh, i.e. 40 * 0.62 = PLN 24.80 / day. 4 h * 6 kW = 24 kWh / day. In the G11 tariff, it is 24 * 0.62 = PLN 14.88 / day. I don't know where you will get PLN 150 / month, but you probably have your own special calculator
Yes, I'm in the process. The stove works, but the drivers will still be installed. The buffer is there, but it is 45 degrees ...
You can look for inaccuracies here. Maybe someone is just a heat pump in front of their eyes and only sees it ..
I have known for three years from these electrode furnaces. At the fair, I found out ... I bought it a year ago. Just because I met a few people who have them .. And they are happy ...
It is important to properly prepare the water for the system.
By the way, when I called the plumbers and I was calling 40 here. Almost No one had a clue what it was .. One heard and one edited but couldn't run ..
On this forum, everyone writes how they see it in theory and shows the calculations ... Nobody writes who uses it ...
After the turn .. My close friend has had a pump for 5 years ... He pays 1500 PLN for electricity to it every month. Terraced house... He installed the second one two months ago .. It was PLN 300 in October and PLN 400 in November. New heat pump ..
As for the electrode furnaces. They cost from 600 PLN without drivers. There are plenty of companies. Starting from Ruthenian to Polish ...
Do you distinguish an electrode furnace from an induction furnace? Want? Buy. Nobody is protecting you. Only later do not complain in the forum. Let this video show you what an electrode furnace is: https://youtu.be/q2r0GMVAWyI Notice how cloudy and muck the water turns after it boils for a short time. If this operation were repeated 2-3 times, the water in the glass would become completely cloudy and brown. Do this experiment at home and you will quickly heal yourself from electrode furnaces. The electrode furnaces work on exactly the same principle. Therefore, in the case of such furnaces, the water in the central heating installation should be changed, at worst once a month, and at best once a season. Unfortunately, during the operation of such a boiler, water electrolysis takes place at least to a small extent (due to alternating current). During this electrolysis, water decomposes and hydrogen gas and oxygen gas are released. These gases circulating in the installation cause much more intense corrosion. Instead of having to last 15-30 years, you will have to replace the heaters every few years. In addition, filters and valves will become clogged with sediment formed during electrolysis. You will have to clean and replace them. It is true that there are furnaces in which the electrolysis is much smaller, because the boiler has a frequency converter and high-frequency alternating current is fed to the electrodes. But such furnaces are expensive and cost more than 10 thousand. zloty.
An induction boiler is a completely different heating technology and in this respect it is devoid of these disadvantages. It's just that their price is very high. It is tall because there is a large transformer and a lot of copper. Even so, the cost of this transformer does not justify such a high price.
If I had to choose between an electrode boiler and an induction boiler, I would definitely choose an induction boiler. That's it, for 1/4 of the value of an induction boiler, I can buy a buffer + heater that will easily last 10 years. If it is damaged, I will replace the heater for a few hundred zlotys.
Tom2349 wrote:
I wouldn't be into it if I hadn't seen the others myself ...
Specify whether you are writing about an induction or electrode boiler (furnace), because it is a day to day difference. All electric boilers, whether induction, electrode or resistance (with heaters), have an efficiency close to 100% In this regard, the amount of electricity consumed
Tom2349 wrote:
I do not want to spend 50 thousand on equipment and then every year warranty service and worry about what will freeze.
This means you spend little money on a resistance boiler with heaters in which there is no water electrolysis and there are no problems with electrode boilers.
Tom2349 wrote:
I installed it a few days ago. I bought a 1000 liter buffer and I have great heat at home. I have a stove for 2 minutes, 10 minutes of rest.
Only that it is not winter yet and there is no frost. When the frosts come, you will sail financially, because the stove will also have to heat up in the first tariff. Unfortunately, in order to collect the right amount of energy for the duration of tariff I, firstly, the boiler power would have to be almost twice as large, and secondly, the buffer should be sufficiently large.
Tom2349 wrote:
I will install the tech drivers next week, the stove will only work in the cheapest tariff ..
You can laugh, but after a week of calculations, I already know that I will be much cheaper than eco-pea coal.
Much less will not come out, but not much more will come out. Provided that you will only use electricity in the 2nd tariff. But please do not write nonsense about heat pumps, that their operating costs are higher than that of an electric boiler, because in fact the operating costs of a heat pump are at least 3 times lower. You can compare it like this: If you paid for eco-pea coal, let's say PLN 4,000, you will pay about PLN 5,000 for electricity with an electric boiler. You would pay PLN 3,000-4,000 for gas from the network, and for LPG gas (from a cylinder) not much less than for electricity from the 2nd tariff. If the electric furnace has to heat up in the 1st tariff, the costs will increase. How much they increase, it depends on how long he will work in the 1st tariff, and how much in the 2nd tariff. This depends on the size of the buffer.
there are no inaccuracies, only lies and nonsense. I have an apartment in an uninsulated building of 100m2 and if I was a layman, I could think after your posts that if I had an electrode boiler, I would pay PLN 170 / month for heating (the proportion for your PLN 250 per 150m2 in an uninsulated building) and I would still heat up to 23 degrees in the tariff G11 (round the clock), where 1kWh is about PLN 0.61.
Each building has a specific heat demand and no heat source can change that. The costs will depend on the heat source, but with your examples it can be seen that it is manipulation or, in other words, fake news. Then someone repeating your nonsense will proclaim that having an electrode boiler for electric heating on 150m2 in an uninsulated building, he will pay PLN 250, because he read this on the Electrode: - / Embrace yourself and think before you write anything, because you are either pretending or you are a conscious manipulator.
By the way, when I called the plumbers and I was calling 40 here. Almost No one had a clue what it was .. One heard and one edited but couldn't run ..
On this forum, everyone writes how they see it in theory and shows the calculations ... Nobody writes who uses it ...
best regards
You see, because the vast majority of people here graduate from technical schools. Not only are they able to count, they also know the laws of physics and they know that perpetual motion does not exist.
Regarding your electrode boiler, I am going to bet that the heating season will cost you over PLN 8,000 (because you've probably paid this much for eco-pea coal PLN 7,000-8,000 so far), provided that at home you will not exceed the temperature of + 10'C. Unfortunately, frosts will come, your buffer will store energy for 2 or 3 hours of heating during the 1st tariff. The meringue boiler had to be reheated using the 1st tariff, and then the costs will increase to PLN 2,500-3,000 per month. You want to check it, enter all house parameters on this page: www.cieplowlasciwie.pl and show us the calculations. This website calculates the energy demand of houses quite well with an accuracy of 20%
The discussion revolves around the feasibility of using a Phoenix induction boiler for central heating and hot water in conjunction with a 7.2 kW photovoltaic system for a well-insulated 130 m² house, primarily utilizing underfloor heating. Participants express varying opinions on the efficiency and cost-effectiveness of induction boilers compared to traditional electric heaters and heat pumps. Key points include the high initial investment for induction boilers, their long lifespan, and low failure rates, contrasted with the operational costs and efficiency of heat pumps. Some users advocate for traditional electric heaters in buffer tanks as a more economical solution, while others highlight the reliability and maintenance advantages of induction systems. The conversation also touches on the importance of calculating heat demand and the potential for photovoltaic systems to offset electricity costs. Summary generated by the language model.
