[Solved] Understanding PGNiG W-2.12T to W3.12T Tariff Change and its Impact on Gas Bills

Hello,
I was recently surprised by a slightly higher gas bill than I usually calculate. It turned out that the seller, i.e. PGNiG, switched me from the W-2.12T tariff to the W-3.12T tariff. The difference is, of course, the cost of fixed fees. The fixed distribution fee jumped to 38.89 gross per month. Previously, it was 10.68. Of course, it should be emphasized that the variable distribution fee is lower in this tariff, but it is only about 15% of the difference to the benefit of the consumer. For calculations, I use an average of PLN 5 in favor of the new tariff. Counting 12 x 39 PLN is 468 PLN. 12 x 11 PLN is 132 PLN. Of course, 5 x 12 is 60 PLN. 468- (132 + 60) = 276 PLN.
This is more or less the amount that I lose every year on shifting me to the new tariff due to gas consumption.

I thought that in the spring time I could terminate the Comprehensive Agreement and conclude it again. Staying without gas for a few days is not a problem.

1) Does the re-conclusion of the Comprehensive Agreement involve a fee for connecting the meter (I couldn't find it anywhere), or do they just connect and pay again under the new Agreement with PGNIG?

2) Do I omit anything in my calculations? In the winter months, the difference of PLN 23 per month is not impressive, but in the summer it is.

3) When is the best time to terminate the Agreement (what month) in order to postpone the next maneuver of PGNiG with transferring the client to a higher group in the case of a new Agreement, taking into account that the Agreement is concluded mostly (and here I am asking for a correction) for two years? Gas consumption actually increases from November (750 kWh) to February - March (around 1600 kWh); data for the previous year.
(I only sign clean Agreements, i.e. without any packages such as a helpful plumber, energetic, etc.)

4) The gas sales contract is concluded for an indefinite or definite period?

5) Does such a game make sense at all, or can any fees surprise me, which will make it uneconomical to play in the actions of terminating the Agreement and concluding it again?

Thank you for your suggestions and best regards.

killer2424 wrote:

Does the re-conclusion of the "All-in-One Agreement" involve a fee for connecting the meter

To set up the meter, they will need an installation tightness report is about PLN 150 and a chimney protocol is about PLN 170

killer2424 wrote:

Does such a game make any sense, can any fees surprise me,

Look up.

killer2424 wrote:

I figured out that I could terminate the Comprehensive Agreement in the spring and conclude it again. Staying without gas for a few days is not a problem.

Better figure out how to have lower gas consumption per year.
For me, the annual limit determining the allocation to W-2 or W-3 is 1,200 m3.
So up to 1,200 m3 per year you are in the W-2 tariff, and from upwards of 1201 m3 you jump into the W-3 tariff.
You have the contractual billing year on your invoice.
If it is, for example, the period from October 1 to September 30, and you had a meter reading of 1000 m3 on September 30, 2021, you must not exceed the meter reading of 2,200 m3 by September 30, 2021. Then you will return to the W-2 tariff from the next year. If you exceed the above-mentioned 2,200 m3, you will stay in the W-3 tariff.

You can change your gas supplier from PGNiG to, for example, PGE. After changing the seller, in the first accounting year you can choose the tariff you want. You terminate the contract with a 30-day notice period at the end of the billing period. If you submit it now, on 31.12.2020, the end of the contract with PGNiG will end and from 01.01.2021 a new seller. Theoretically, everything can be done electronically. PGE's promotional offer has slightly cheaper gas https://www.gkpge.pl/Oferta/Dla-domu/Regionalna/gaz-niezmiennie-finansny.

TomekO1976 wrote:

You can change your gas supplier from PGNiG to, for example, PGE. After changing the seller, in the first accounting year you can choose the tariff you want.

But switching sellers will not change the distributor, so in my opinion it will not avoid the distribution fee mentioned in the thread. I am not sure if terminating the contract and entering into a new contract will change anything in this respect. Personally, I have a lot of doubts, so I suggest you keep an eye on the meter reading, or look for savings if it is a matter of several / a dozen / several dozen m3 per year.
Even a stupid replacement of window seals can give the desired effect on an annual basis if the old ones are already worn out and do not provide proper thermal insulation. Sometimes it's about little things.

Since, when terminating the Agreement, I incur costs, as my colleague wrote above, the termination of the Agreement is economically unjustified.
I made simulations of the bills for both tariffs.
I put the last invoice, still a small one, for PLN 165, under the rates from the W-2.12T tariff and it turned out that I would save PLN 42.
However, the highest invoice from the previous heating season was PLN 450, issued in the W-2.12t tariff, with the rates from the W-3.12T tariff and it turned out that I would pay 404 PLN.
A simple conclusion - the higher the gas consumption, the more profitable the W-3 tariff due to the lower rates for the variable distribution fee and gas fuel.
The building in which I live in February has only been insulated, so I hope that this season bills will not exceed PLN 300 per month.
As a consequence, I will return to the W-2.12t tariff.
The highest bill was for December 2019, the 450 PLN. Then the invoices were lower.

I changed the gas supplier twice. Can be changed to any distributor tariff.

TomekO1976 wrote:

I changed the gas supplier twice. Can be changed to any distributor tariff.

I am interested in whether you had the W-3 tariff, and after changing the seller, you immediately switched to W-2 and saved PLN 300 a year?

In the case of electricity and the famous G12as tariff, there were also ideas to terminate the contract to gain an annual limit of 0kWh for the night tariff, but the energy company has secured itself in the event of such combinations on the part of consumers, so I am skeptical about such revelations.

Added after 14 [minutes]:

killer2424 wrote:

A simple conclusion - the higher the gas consumption, the more profitable the W-3 tariff is due to the lower rates for the variable distribution fee and gas fuel

yes, you will profit on one, but you will get over your head on another, so in the end you lose about PLN 300 a year, so you probably counted something wrong, since it turned out that you saved several dozen zlotys on one invoice. I always get a surcharge, because the cost of the surcharge exceeds the discount for fuel in W-3, so I do not have an option for the variant you described.

Exactly so, I had the W3.6 tariff and after switching vendor, I switched to W2.1. I would analyze the gas price change more because with high consumption there will be much more savings on the difference in the gas price than on the subscription fee. For example, PGE had a gas price of 0.10 PLN net per kilowatt hour at PGE since April, while PGNiG had over PLN 0.10.256 at that time. The difference in the price of gas itself, with high consumption, will result in much more than the entire subscription.

Someone used to calculate and calculate where the first year is on the W-2 tariff and the consumption is as for the W-3 around 2000 or there 2500 m3 is only calculated for the W-3 as cheaper (subscription costs are covered by the lower cost per m3). It would probably have to be recalculated (the calculation did not take into account the costs of changing the operator / meter, etc.).

So if the profitability threshold is around 2000 m3, you need to have a really large cottage or wind-lined to use it. Among my friends and on my own example, I find consumption in the vicinity of 800-1100 m3 for apartments and small, very warm houses. Or around 1400-1600 m3 for larger houses or a larger family. My uncle's institute from Rajch did not know anyone who would use over 2000 m3 a year, which does not mean that there are no such houses ...

Perhaps those who would consume the minimum amount of 2000-2500 m3 of gas prefer to shovel black gold or burn with wood.

Voivode82 I use 2,200 m3 of gas for central heating, domestic hot water and a gas cooker with a gas oven. Heating is 1,300 m3. I use hot water a lot.

Do you heat the pool?

About 40.6 kWh are needed to heat 1 m3 of water by 35 degrees. Counting from the consumption of even 150m3 for cooking and oven (unrealistic such high consumption), 750m3 is left, which is some 7870kWh. So the annual consumption of DHW is at least 193 m3. Slightly over 16m3 of DHW per month. Some space if there are up to 5 people (unless a 3-generation family lives, that's different).

For example, I counted the cost of purchasing 1500 kWh. And?
1500 kWh in the 2.12T tariff is PLN 279 (net: 58.5 variable distribution fee, 150 gas fuel, 8.67 subscription fee, 9.33 fixed distribution fee).
1500 kWh in the 3.12T tariff is PLN 278 (net: 49.5 variable distribution fee, 135 gas fuel, 9.86 subscription fee, 31.62 fixed distribution fee).

Of course, I rounded my pennies somewhere on the way.
It follows that the W-3.12 T tariff pays off from 1500 kWh upwards. That is about 18,000 kWh per year.
This is what I used in the Contract Year.
But the building is already insulated and the consumption should finally be lower.

I do not know which region you are subject to, because in Poznań in W-2.12T at PGNiG I have (net):
- gas fuel PLN 0.08944 / kWh
- distribution variable PLN 0.03289 / kWh
- subscription fee PLN 8.67 / month
- distribution constant 8.71 PLN / month

i.e. for 1500 kWh per month it comes out:
- fuel 1500 * 0.08944 = 134.16 PLN
- distribution variable 1500 * 0.03289 = PLN 49.34
- subscription fee 1 * 8.67 = 8.67 PLN / month
- distribution constant 1 * 8.71 = 8.71 PLN / month
TOTAL 134.16 + 49.34 + 8.67 + 8.71 = PLN 200.88 net
+ 23% VAT = PLN 247.08 to be paid gross

Added after 20 [minutes]:

Now the same for the W-3.12T in the Poznań region at PGNiG (net):
- gas fuel PLN 0.08944 / kWh
- distribution variable PLN 0.03186 / kWh
- subscription fee PLN 9.86 / month
- distribution fixed PLN 28.60 / month

For 1500 kWh it comes out:
- gas fuel 1500 * 0.08944 = 134.16 PLN
- distribution variable 1500 * 0.03186 = PLN 47.79
- subscription fee 1 * 9.86 = 9.86 PLN / month
- distribution constant 1 * 28.60 = 28.60 PLN / month
TOTAL 134.16 + 47.79 + 9.86 + 28.60 = PLN 220.41 net
+ 23% VAT = PLN 271.10 gross to pay.

For me, with an average consumption of 1500 kWh / month (18,000 kWh per year), the W-3.12T tariff is not profitable, because I overpay PLN 24.02 gross per month, i.e. PLN 288.24 gross per year compared to the W-2.12T tariff.

Voivode82 in my case of hot water, a gas stove with a gas oven consumes 900 m3 of gas per year. I use about 16 m3 of cold water. It turns out that I pay more advances for water and sewage than for what.

BUCKS for me it goes like this for the tariff area of Tarnów, W2.1 PSG and W1 PGE tariffs:

for 1500 kWh per month it comes out:
- fuel 1500 * 0.08 = 120 PLN
- distribution variable 1500 * 0.03552 = 53.28 PLN
- subscription fee 1 * 6.14 = 6.14 PLN / month
- distribution constant 1 * 8.21 = 8.21 PLN / month

TOTAL: PLN 187.63 net.

For the W3.6 PSG and W3 PGE tariffs:

i.e. for 1500 kWh per month it comes out:
- fuel 1500 * 0.08 = 120 PLN
- distribution variable 1500 * 0.02663 = 39.945 PLN
- subscription fee 1 * 8.55 = 8.55 PLN / month
- distribution constant 1 * 31.7 = 31.7 PLN / month

TOTAL: PLN 200,195 net.

For me, for the payment to be the same, you need to use 33,000 kWh per year (2,750 kWh per month).

With an average consumption of 1500 kWh / month, you overpay for W-3 only PLN 185.52 gross per year compared to my PLN 288.24. But the real cost of the W-3 for me is the cost of the W-2, because the W-3 is even more expensive.
As you can see, depending on the region of Poland, the costs may be slightly different with the same consumption.

@ killer2424 Słupsk comes out that this is the Gdańsk region, for them, in the case of the W-2.12T and the comprehensive agreement at PGNiG, it comes out:
- gas fuel 0.08944 PLN / kWh [1500 * 0.08944 = 134.16 PLN]
- distribution variable PLN 0.03839 / kWh [1500 * 0.03839 = PLN 57.59]
- subscription fee PLN 8.67 / month [1 * 8.67 = PLN 8.67]
- distribution constant 9.33 PLN / month [1 * 9.33 = 9.33 PLN]
TOTAL 134.16 + 57.59 + 8.67 + 9.33 = 209.75 PLN net
+ 23% VAT = PLN 257.99 gross to be paid

In the case of W-3.12T and the comprehensive agreement at PGNiG, the following results are net:
- gas fuel 0.08944 PLN / kWh [1500 * 0.08944 = 134.16 PLN]
- distribution variable PLN 0.03308 / kWh [1500 * 0.03308 = PLN 49.62]
- subscription fee PLN 9.86 / month [1 * 9.86 = PLN 9.86]
- distribution constant PLN 31.62 / month [1 * 31.62 = PLN 31.62]
TOTAL 134.16 + 49.62 + 9.86 + 31.62 = 225.26 PLN net
+ 23% VAT = PLN 277.07 gross to be paid

After all, for the average consumption of 1500 kWh / month in the W-3.12T tariff, you overpay PLN 19.08 gross per month, which is PLN 228.96 gross annually more than in the W-2.12T tariff.

I do not know how you counted that you W-2.12T was 1 PLN gross / month more expensive than the W-3.12T ??

Buddy Bucks, I have the invoice in front of me, the gas rate for the W-2.12T is 0.10296 and for the W-3.12T is 0.08944. Hence, five times my eye was the same cost for 1500 kWh.

killer2424 wrote:

I have an invoice in front of me, the gas rate for W-2.12T is 0.10296 and for W-3.12T is 0.08944. Hence, five times my eye was the same cost for 1500 kWh.

I took data from the official PGNiG price list for the distribution service:
03.04.2020... 8_PSG.pdf Download (1.05 MB)
and the retail price list for a comprehensive agreement:
01.07.2020...a nr 9.pdf Download (3.15 MB)
My invoice corresponds to this price list for the Poznań region where I live.
For comparison, I have given the rates for the W-3.12T.

Similarly, I have given the costs of W-2.12T and W-3.12T for the Gdańsk region.
Since you have different rates for fuel, I draw one conclusion from this that you DO NOT HAVE a comprehensive agreement with PGNiG.
What you have is, I don't know, because I can't see your invoice and I don't know what price list to check in order to draw conclusions myself.
And your calculations without specifying the basis are not fully reliable for me.

I have a comprehensive agreement with PGNIG Gdańsk region.

killer2424 wrote:

I have a comprehensive agreement with PGNIG Gdańsk region.

you gave the screenshots and now everything is clear.

killer2424 wrote:

Buddy Bucks, I have the invoice in front of me, the gas rate for the W-2.12T is 0.10296 and for the W-3.12T is 0.08944. Hence, five times my eye was the same cost for 1500 kWh.

On the invoice scan for W-2.12T you have a rate of 0.10002 PLN / kWh for fuel, not 0.10296, this is your first mistake.
Secondly, for the W-2.12T you provide an invoice from June 2020, when the rates were higher, I have given the current price list in the post above, just download and read it.
Please note that in the comprehensive agreement, the rate for gaseous fuel is the same regardless of the tariff, so your mistake is to take different rates for gaseous fuel that are in fact the same.
However, the rates for the remaining 3 items on the invoice are different and they affect the actual amount of costs, but you have to compare the current prices, not the old ones.

To sum up, the costs given in my post # 16 are correct, because they are in line with the price list, so base these values on your current invoice for October, you will get how much you would pay if you still had the W-2.12T.
I did it quickly for you:
for 755 kWh in October in the W-2.12T tariff you would pay PLN 114.52 net, i.e. PLN 140.86 gross.
Your invoice scan shows that in the W-3.12T tariff you have to pay PLN 164.81 gross for the same 755 kWh, i.e. you have relatively overpaid PLN 23.95 gross on this one invoice only.

Now, please recalculate at what consumption costs in W-2.12T are equal to costs in W-3.12T in your Gdańsk region. It is certainly not the 18,000 kWh / year you are suggesting.

Added after 33 [minutes]:

out of inborn curiosity, I played with Excel and it turned out that in your Gdańsk region, taking into account the current price lists and assuming their invariability, only gas consumption at the average level of 4,421 kWh / mc, i.e. 53,052 kWh per year will give exactly the same costs in the W-2.12T tariff and in W-3.12T.
Only from the threshold of 53,053 kWh per year you will start to "save" in the W-3.12T tariff.

If we take the conversion rate of 11.443 kWh / m3, it gives a level of approx. 4636 m3 per year, which for my conditions is a cosmic value and I would probably have to break windows in order to use so much energy

I do not understand, since you can see two of my invoices and one has the price of 0.08944 (tariff W-3) and the other one is 0.10002 (tariff W-2), the gas company makes a mistake by charging me a price other than that specified in the Comprehensive Agreement ?

killer2424 wrote:

I do not really understand,

I also don't really understand how you can make such mistakes.
In the name of the file with the retail price list that I attached in post # 18 and its content, you have stated that the price list is valid from July 1, 2020.
Anyway, I wrote in post # 20 that you are comparing the data from the invoice from June 2020 in the W-2.12T tariff, and a new price list applies, as shown in the following quote:

BUCKS wrote:

Secondly, for the W-2.12T you provide an invoice from June 2020, when the rates were higher, I have given the current price list in the post above, just download and read it.

I have the impression that everything I wrote above was pointless, because you did not read it with understanding, in other words, I only wasted my time contributing to this thread.

You haven't wasted any time because this thread will be useful to others. I made a mistake because I compared the invoices to different prices, which was due to the fact that prices were lowered. I did not think that the fuel rates are the same for both tariffs as you wrote.
And it's great that they lowered it.
Now I know that the W-3 tariff is obviously less profitable for me, the more so as it forecasts lower consumption than in the previous contractual year.
Also thanks for participating in the discussion
I can only change the supplier and 'contract' the W-2 tariff, i.e. enter the forecast consumption for the tariff level.
Tomorrow I will contact the local supplier and ask for this re-selection of the tariff.
At Eniga, there is a rate of 0.08958 and a subscription of 5.57.
I just need to review the documents because it says it's a promotional offer. So that I do not get into some even higher prices.

just ask what and how, because I see it that the distribution fees are paid to what has gas pipes, i.e. PGNiG, and then you pay separately to the gas seller, who may add a trade fee. Same as with electricity. But make sure what the real costs you will then incur, so that it is not a replacement of an ax for a stick
I personally did not want to analyze it, because with electricity it turned out that the savings were in the range of PLN 2 / month, but usually for the first year of the promotional agreement, because then the costs of the trade fee were rising and usually you would have to pay a few extra zlotys. The G12as tariff was supposed to be wonderful and it also sneezes, I am also skeptical about such offers, although, as I mentioned, I did not analyze the gas offers.

Added after 27 [minutes]:

killer2424 wrote:

At Eniga, there is a rate of 0.08958 and a subscription of 5.57.

at PGNiG you have a rate of PLN 0.08944 / kWh, which for 1500 kWh / month gives a difference of PLN 0.21 in favor of PGNiG.
There is no W-2.12T tariff in Eniga, but W-2.1 and you pay 1/12 of the annual consumption every month.
Comparing the W-2.1, you have PLN 0.17 in favor of PGNiG.
In other words, you have a surcharge.
So my statement that switching seller is confirmed is a sneeze ;)

The only advantage of Enig will be if you switch from W-3 to W-2 immediately and the distribution fee will drop.

Each contract where the seller is from outside the DSO group means zero savings - maybe he will pay less for the sale, but he will return it in distribution fees because so far electricity and gas cannot be sent via wifi and the network must be maintained.
In Tauron, how quickly customers change the electricity supplier, they come back so quickly after 3-4 months.
The EU requirement to choose a seller was to be met. The rest is fiction.

The operator of the gas distribution system is, for example, Polska Spółka Gazowa. PGNiG is a gas seller. When concluding a contract, I would pay attention to the duration (preferably an indefinite period), penalties for early termination of the contract and the price of gas. At PGE, the promotion is currently PLN 0.50. in the W1 PGE and W2.1 DSO tariffs. Agreement for an indefinite period with a reserved period with a price guarantee until 31/12/2021. Penalty for breaking the contract PLN 50 + PLN 7.55 for each month until the end of the reserved period. Such an agreement can theoretically be concluded via the Internet with, for example, a Trusted Profile. In my case, PGNiG accepted the termination by e-mail and I received an e-mail confirmation of the termination. Then PGE sent me documents to be completed by e-mail. They really wanted them to be printed and sent by traditional mail, despite https://pge-obrot.pl/zdalny-kontakt/jak-podpisac-umowe-z-pge-bez-arzenia-z-domu. Probably Eniga has the same.

Added after 8 [minutes]:

In the case of gas, the price difference can be huge. I use a lot of gas, I follow the prices and change the seller if it is profitable for me. In April 2020, the gas price at PGNiG was approximately 0.10 PLN. and PGE was 0.08. 28.2% difference for gas fuel. I'm surprised that the two state-owned behemoths have such different prices?

However, I include Eniga among the shadowy sellers. They do not reply to e-mails, some documents are missing on the website.
It is not worth bothering yourself with a company that does not know its price list.
I avoid such companies from a distance.
PGE's offer is ok, but a confusing way of signing the Agreement, but as I can see, it can ...
Just one question: I settle accounts for this offer every month according to actual or forecast indications.

TomekO1976 wrote:

In the case of gas, the price difference can be huge. I use a lot of gas, I follow the prices and change the seller if it is profitable for me. In April 2020, the gas price at PGNiG was approximately 0.10 PLN. and PGE was 0.08. 28.2% difference for gas fuel. I'm surprised that the two state-owned behemoths have such different prices?

out of curiosity, I entered the PGE website and it's hard to find anything there.
First, after entering the house offer, I found the 20128 price list for gas fuel in useful documents.

Finally I found the page:
https://www.gkpge.pl/Oferta/Strefa-Klienta/Krajowa/Wnioski-umowy-formularze
where in both documents the Tariff - natural gas and the Tariff Insert - the price list is the net rate of 0.10741 / kWh and the subscription fee of 6.14 for the W1 tariff, i.e. up to 1200 m3 per year.
At such rates, PGNiG is as cheap as borscht

killer2424 I am billed once a year and I have a forecast invoice every 2 months. I do not know if the actual meter reading can be entered. For me, PSG is writing down the meter and handing it over to PGE.

BUCKS this price is out of the promotion. I have a signed offer of PLN 0.08 per kWh with a price guarantee until 31/12/2021. At the end of 2021, I sign another promotion or change the seller. I did this at the end of 2019 and returned to PGNiG. However, in April 2020, PGE lowered the promotional price and I returned to PGE.

Looking at all of this, I am becoming more and more skeptical.
However, I think I will stay at PGNiG and I will make sure that I do not exceed the limit until July, which will result in my transfer to the W-2.12T tariff.
You can always lower the readings for 3-4 months when I get closer to the limit and immediately catch up after switching to a cheaper tariff
As long as there will be something to combine, because I assume less consumption due to the insulated building.
I've looked through a dozen or so pages of gas sellers and it looks like a total fluff ...
I found my 2008 comprehensive agreement, gas fuel prices were tariff-related, not like now
Now the temperatures are below freezing at night, so I will be tracking the daily gas consumption.