Filling the Sodastream cylinder - only 150-200g of CO2 from the 6kg mother cylinder. How to improve?

It also doesn't charge well for me. Regardless of whether I freeze the cartridge or not. It will reach approximately 220 g and that's it.
Is this a one-way or two-way valve? https://files.fm/u/k5m995y4j

>>19902246

Many thanks for this description. I had the same problem described above. I've already frozen small bottles and placed the mother at an angle and it didn't help. The key to success is probably, as you write, slowly opening the valve and the horizontal position of the sodastream cylinder. You have to weigh it while filling it, because it took me up to 500 g and I had to drain it.

Hello, it's simple, you need to freeze the cartridge for at least 3 hours, a simple law of physics, put the cartridge in the freezer for 3 hours and you will definitely get 425g

Sorry for digging up the topic, but I almost ordered an 8l cylinder with a siphon to fill my Sodastream and the woman from the point where they fill the cylinders in our city caught me off guard a bit. This is a fire protection plant that has been dealing with filling CO2 for a long time, e.g. for aquarists, etc. They have been filling it with Sodastream for a long time and the woman said that I would not be happy because they have several customers who bought large cylinders and are not able to fill the small Sodastream cylinders correctly.
Only she talked about a different symptom - the first few fillings are OK, but then you can`t refill them and you have to refill the bottle when it`s only half empty. They have the same problem in this plant, they fill sodastream from smaller cylinders and after a few filled sodastream cartridges, they have to refill the cylinders from the large cylinder in which they buy gas.

What is your experience with self-filling? Sodastream has been on the market for a while. Are there really such problems? Or does using the colleagues` descriptions above ensure success with filling every time?
How many carbonator cartridges will you realistically fill from an 8-liter bottle? cylinder sellers write that 5-8 is the maximum because there is a loss of gas when disconnecting the pipes.

I`m thinking about getting a large cylinder because in my city there is only one filling point and it is open only on weekdays from 8 a.m. to 3 p.m. when half of the people are at work... I just don`t know if it will be worth it in such situations. The price of filling an 8-liter cylinder jumped from PLN 30 to PLN 65 within a few months....

With the remaining 1 kg of gas in a 6 kg cylinder (8 liter). Filling a small empty one is virtually impossible. He comes in ok
100 gr. and that`s it.

As the gas in the large one decreases and the pressure drops, the small one must be frozen several times to crystallize the gas. With the remaining gas, you may need to perform several freezing/filling cycles.

6 kg yields about 10 small ones, each weighing 425 g. The losses on snakes are not that great.

Do you think that with the remaining 1 kg of gas in the cylinder, if the cylinder did not have a siphon, it would be possible to pour the gas by tilting the cylinder?
Is it then more in the volatile phase and does it not matter because the pressure is too low for something to fly out?

I don`t know, maybe it`s in the volatile phase.
However, I know that the remaining gas goes well into a small, frozen, but not completely empty, container. I place it with the valve down, so that the gas, even in the volatile phase, passes through the cold, liquid gas, and a gurgling sound can be heard. It`s not crazy, but more goes in than in the horizontal position. When placed vertically with the valve down, it is more difficult to keep the weight on because it simply falls over.

If I don't freeze the bottle, it weighs about 180 grams
After freezing - 425 - max 450 grams - filling time approx. 20 seconds, bottle filled vertically. Works every time.
That's it.

>>20103272 the siphon bottle must have a flat bottom without a welded base at the bottom.

It is not possible to fill this cylinder in any way, because of the same pressures in the large one as in the small one. With any other gas it will work out, but not with food-grade dioxide. There is nothing to combine, because it will definitely fail. Argon or propane goes with a larger cylinder because it will puncture the larger one into the smaller one. With dioxide it is impossible, because the fun is over as the pressure equalizes in both cylinders and the capacity does not increase. So the only chance is to connect the large one directly to the saturator.

mariomechanika wrote:

In the case of carbon dioxide this is impossible because the fun ends when the pressure equalizes in both cylinders and the capacity does not increase.

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Equalising the pressure in either case ends the fun but for carbon dioxide it is the same as for propane or propane-butane mix or filling air conditioning - you have to pour the liquid CO2 and not the gas itself.
It is possible and people practice it. They also fill painball bottles with the same CO2.
You can let all the gas out of the receiver cylinder and set the donor so that it is liquid and not gas (with siphon valve up, without siphon valve down).
The pressure in the cylinder depends on the temperature of the liquid, so one method is to put the cylinder in the freezer before filling. Of course, the large cylinder stays at room temperature.

Let me ask you this - what is the point of all this fun? To save that 30PLN once a month? Is there a hidden real advantage of such a combination?

Dear brothers in distress over the problems of properly filling the "cartridges for SodaStream systems".
I think all our problems stem from a basic principle of physics, namely the principle of equilibrating pressures in connected vessels.
There is no simple way to achieve increased pressure relative to the source than to induce compression, i.e. additional compression of the gas on its way to the lower pressure vessel (or tank).
That is, the gas from the supply cylinder should be mechanically or otherwise additionally compressed.
I, an under-educated old man, make such a conclusion.
That is to say, do not delude yourself that some combination with additional screws will have the desired effect.
The solution, in my opinion, would be higher pressure in the supply cylinders, suitably protected against overcharging of the receiver cylinders, or accepting the fact that it is impossible otherwise and you have to "refuel the SodaStream cartridges" more often, because, after all, the amount of gas to produce a given amount of beverage is fixed.

agosciniecki wrote:

I, an undereducated old man, put forward such a conclusion.

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I consider this conclusion to be wrong because it does not accurately describe the problem.
Everything looks clear in the case of a gas but we are dealing with a liquid - the CO2 in such a cylinder is a liquid above whose surface the gaseous fraction of the same CO2 floats. As the cylinder is in thermodynamic equilibrium, the pressure in it corresponds to the saturated vapour pressure of the gas in question (that is CO2) at a given temperature.

agosciniecki wrote:

The solution, in my opinion, would be higher pressure supply cylinders, suitably protected against overcharging of the receiver cylinders,

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According to the above, you will not get a cylinder charged to a higher pressure because it will be one based on temperature.
When filling a SodaStream cylinder, we are concerned with pumping the liquid fraction of CO2 from the large cylinder to the small cylinder, the gaseous fraction can either help or hinder this because its pressure affects the liquid phase transport process.

I accept that I may be wrong and have treated the subject in a cursory manner on so-called peasant grounds.
But then I pose a simple question.
How, then, should CO2 gas be transfused without any knowledge of the liquid and gaseous fractions, the saturation state, etc.?
After all, do the filling and exchange companies manage this somehow and do not employ a staff of scientists for the simple task of filling the cylinders for the SodaStream system so that the weight of the injected CO2 is, for example, 440 g and not 160 or 250?

Added after 4 [hours] 32 [minutes]:

I agree that I may not be right and I have treated the subject in a cursory manner on so-called "peasant" grounds.
But I pose a simple question then.
How, then, should CO2 gas be transfused without knowing more about the liquid and gas fractions and the saturation state, etc.?
Do the filling and exchange companies manage this somehow and do not employ a staff of scientists for the simple task of filling the cylinders for the soda stream system so that the weight of the injected CO2 is, for example, 440g and not 160 or 250?

agosciniecki wrote:

After all, filling and replacement companies somehow manage this and do not employ a staff of scientists

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Worldwide, millions of drivers run their cars without the assistance of scientists in thermodynamics, combustion, mechanics. Maybe the scientists only helped to develop the optimal filling process so that it is also easy to do without studying the theory.

agosciniecki wrote:

that the weight of the injected CO2 would be, for example, 440g and not 160 or 250

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Cylinders should be weighed when filled and the weight of the cylinder itself should be marked - a number and unit stamped on the cylinder and sometimes, for ease of use, larger numbers painted on in a clearly visible place - I have encountered such on 11kg propane-butane cylinders.

And I have a question, because I have a 1.5 kg bottle without a saturator.
I understand that to fill the SodaStream bottle, I simply have to turn the large bottle upside down (bottle valve at the bottom) to roll the liquid CO₂ into the small one?
I wonder if I can fill it up at all, since the liquid CO₂ in the cylinder is said to be about 1/3.
Best regards,
Tom