What cables to run to the external LTE antenna?

Question

Hi :) What cables are best to route to the external antenna for 4G and future 5G? I mean the cables from the place where the router will be located to the place where the antenna will be (barrier on the balcony). I am before renovation, so I can put everything without stress. What cables are...

IC_Current · Accepted Answer

How good an electrician is, you don't need to tell him. If it's average, and there are many, it can really mess up your computer network. You have to keep an eye on it, because, for example, the antenna wires are very poor and only the TV works, but there are huge attenuations on SAT and then surprise that it breaks the picture in winter. Also, keep an eye on it so that it doesn't bend computer cables too much, step on it or cut it too short. There should be about 20 cm of spare in the socket on the wall, and in the crossover cabinet, the reserve after making all the keystons should be about 1 m (i.e. before mounting the cabinet, the wires should protrude from the wall by about 2.5 m. Electricians often leave a reserve as for electrical wires. Then they piece and add these network cables are completely destructive for transmission parameters. Good cables are Draka, Bitner, Telefonika, or those offered by the Dipol store. Antenna wires are also to be copper and at least A++ class and make sure that the electrician buys such wires and confirms it with a certificate. Of course, the certificate can be substituted from another cable, so it's best to buy antenna and network cables yourself, and let the electrician just lay them. The SAT antenna itself, if you install it, is optimally 80 or 90 cm in diameter, then in winter and during a storm there are no image loss.

KOCUREK1970 · Accepted Answer

This is not the point - for 90% of electricians, teletechnical wires are treated as current wires, because a wire is a wire ... Coaxial cable: TriSet PROFI. Twisted pair in the walls: Madex, Bitner, NETSET, NEKU, Ultralink, BitLAN, full copper, wire (in walls), stranded (other applications), preferably cat6a, UTP. Optical fiber: G652D fiber, G.657A2 can also be used. To each point where you want a socket: 2 coaxial cables (I would give 2, you will use one and the other in the case of W), 2 twisted pairs and 1 optical fiber, living room even 4 twisted pairs, 4 antenna wires and 1 optical fiber. It is also worth spreading the twisted pair on the ceiling in each room, so that you can possibly hang the AP there. Instead of expensive RJ45 network sockets, much cheaper and giving the same effect: frames and keystones. In addition (if there are plans) appropriate cables for all devices such as: alarm, monitoring, central heating stove, intercom, photovoltaics / panels, intelligent home control, etc. Coaxial, network, optical fiber cables must not be bent at an angle of 90 degrees, must not be broken at an even smaller angle, bent, pushed into the corners of the room. If possible, we arrange gentle arcs or a straight line. To the SAT antenna - 6 gelled wires lead outside.

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

U/UTP - means unshielded. The problem with LTE is that generally RF cables are either integrated with antennas or have factory-fitted connectors and such cables are purchased for specific lengths. This is with LTE modems / routers located inside the building and connected to external LTE (passive) antennas. The length of such cables should be as short as possible. It is better to move the LTE router near the antennas and connect it with a twisted pair cable to the internal LAN network than to pull long antenna cables. So that's something to consider. As for the length itself - if there is no way out, it can be several meters of antenna cables, the effect may be a decrease in speed, but it will usually be a few, several percent, so there is no need to panic. You can also combine with better cables or antennas, but it depends on all the conditions - LTE signal levels, cable type, router type, received bands, etc. Usually, the most important thing is where the LTE antennas are placed. If the signals are adequate, the location of the antenna installation is not critical, but if the signals are bad, moving the antenna several dozen cm can cause drastic changes in signals. Anyway, you can discuss specific cases. However, if an external LTE modem integrated with antennas, i.e. the so-called CPE, is used, then it is connected to the router / internal LAN network with a twisted pair cable and there is generally no problem here. It is only worth using an external twisted pair with gel (water protection). Cat. 5e. From SAT it is good to run at least two coaxial cables (black, if from Al then with gel), from DVB-T one cable is enough (the same as for SAT). The installation location of the DVB-T antenna is subject to similar restrictions as in the case of LTE. How good it is, it can be anywhere, how bad it is with signals, not necessarily. With both LTE and DVB-T, the general rule should be that the higher the antenna, the better the signals. But unfortunately, that's not always the case. Remember that a mast over 3m is subject to notification.

IC_Current · Answer

15m wires are definitely too much for an LTE antenna, optimally up to 5m, max 10m. The router needs to be placed in the attic and in the house, additional access points should be placed in the rooms to improve the range of the WIFI network. Dedicated cables must be led from the attic to stationary receivers.
As a rule
From the attic to each room you run two UTP cat. 6A cables and one RG6 cable for the TV. Four UTP cables to the living room, cat. 6A. You connect the cables in the attic to the switch, to which you also connect the router. In the rooms, you terminate the wires with sockets and connect the PC, TV, tuners, set-top boxes, PlayStation, etc. to the sockets. You also connect additional access points to the sockets, if necessary.
Of course, from the attic you also need wires for the alarm, boiler room and empty fi 28 pipes to sensitive points in the house. Then in 10-20 years you will lead what wires will be needed then and what is not in use today without another forging of the walls.

As for the antenna itself and the railing - if you don't know which operator, how do you know that there will be an antenna on the railing. Rather, it will have to be placed in the appropriate roof top or on the chimney directed to a specific broadcasting station.

tomi44 · Answer

Could you clarify why two UTP wires for each room and 4 UTP wires for the living room?

IC_Current · Answer

First of all, one can always be damaged, even a mouse in the attic will bite through, and such wires cannot be repaired without damaging the transmission. Only exchange is possible. In addition, you have, for example, one TV port, another AP, or one PC port, the other printer, or TV+printer, etc. without using additional switches. In the living room, on the other hand, four are not enough - TV, AP, set-top box, PlayStation, receiver, monitoring preview, NAS and many different gadgets that people have.

rafmik · Answer

Just meters of cable will be about 15 and it is impossible to jump over. All wires in the house will meet in the utility room. And here is the question of which cable to jump over this problem. Because from what I know Ethernet with power works without any problems up to 30 meters? It is an antenna where the modem itself is part of the antenna. And why cat 6a and not standard 5e? There are only two transmitters in the area (one is Play, T-Mobile and Orange, the other is Plus, T-Mobile and Orange), the antenna in the place where it will be screwed will be able to set to both transmitters.

IC_Current · Answer

Ethernet works without problems, not up to 30 only up to 100m. However, if for some reason you ran the antenna cable, then unfortunately after 10m it is already worse than what you gained on the antenna. In addition, it's better to let go of an empty fi 28 pipe and in the future pull in the antenna wires. Of course, lay the UTP cable as much as possible now. The cable to the antenna is external, gel-coated (in a black sheath). Because the difference in price is practically non-existent and the possibilities are much greater. On 5e it is standard 1000Mbps per 100m. In cat 6A it is already 10Gbps per 100m and even 40Gbps on shorter sections. This gives you more possibilities in the future, e.g. copying files to a NAS, PC backup or connecting an unlimited fiber optic link above 1Gbps (and such offers are already appearing). Slowly, computers with 2.5Gbps and even 10Gbps cards are already falling under the common thatch. You do installations for 30 years, not for now, and you have to think ahead. One more note to the wires - only branded products, no junk from supermarkets, because they have nothing to do with the category given on the print.

rafmik · Answer

Thanks for the info

I will tell the electrician about better cables.
So, for example, you suggest that with an external antenna, you should not go to antenna cables at all, but only ethernet?
And tune in to the antenna with the modem?

Anonymous · Answer

Writing about 5 meters Colleague @IC_Current meant the antenna cable connecting the modem with the antennas. You are using the wrong nomenclature, so you have been misunderstood. By writing about LTE, you make it clear that the LTE router will be 15 meters from the antenna. And then you explain: Maybe you can draw it better (give distances and placement of devices) Added after 4 [minutes]: Only and only so. 15 meters is way too much. You will lose more on cable attenuation than you gain on antenna sensitivity.

KOCUREK1970 · Answer

You, this electrician, better control what he does, because electricians and teletechnical installations are not the best combination.

rafmik · Answer

I'm guessing, but this is a detached house, not a server room There will be 2 network sockets in each room, 4 sockets in the living room behind the TV, and a cable to the access point will be led out on the ceiling at the bottom, more or less in the middle of the house. Plus, cable routing to the LTE antenna, which will be at the railing or on the rafter (semi-passive house, no chimneys). The SAT antenna itself will be standing on the ground. All cables will come together in the utility room. I wonder what about DVB-T. Added after 1 [minutes]: Thank you very much for the useful information

adwlodar · Answer

It doesn't matter. And if your electrician said so, I would thank him. Because then you come to the job and you see a twisted pair from socket to socket ... It's sad that this opinion is sometimes still true. Added after 52 : What about the upper floor?

rafmik · Answer

I'll ask again. Twisted pair 6A UTP or FTP? Added after 1 [minutes]: House 120m2 One such AP will not cover the house? Do you need upstairs too?

adwlodar · Answer

UTP Coverage and expected link parameters are two different things. No, it's not enough. Especially with 10 walls, reinforced concrete or teriva ceiling.

Anonymous · Answer

I don't understand the argument. Do you mean to say that at home you can practice bungling (and this is what we usually deal with here on the forum)? We only warn by observing how it is made by others, e.g. copper-plated cables (because market and cheap) - but you can do as you want because I won't live there.

IC_Current · Answer

The range of the high-speed WiFi network is up to one wall. The range of the latest AX solutions is practically one room. The rest of the range is old and overloaded 2.4GHz networks, and there you will get at most a dozen or so Mbps. UTP, because you do not need to ground, and at home there are no interferences like in an industrial plant or an office building. Rather, electricians already know it, but you can still meet a bungler. Make sure that each cord from each outlet is routed separately to a closet in the utility room. This applies to both network and antenna cables. If you put a separate cable for each socket, it doesn't matter whether it will be SAT or DVB-T. You simply connect the cable from the socket to the appropriate antenna in the cabinet in the utility room. I now do it so that I run three wires from the SAT antenna to the patch cabinet and one wire from the terrestrial one. Mounts the 1xSCR+2xFB converter. Then I only send the SCR signal to the main decoder and the FB signal to the multiroom decoders, and if there is no multiroom or SAT at all, I just give the splitter and connect the signal from the terrestrial antenna. All on one wiring.

rafmik · Answer

UTP cables will definitely be better, the decision was made after reading this topic - I was 5e, but changed to 6a. I planned the optical fiber between the boiler room and outside the house (there is no optical fiber on the plot yet, I'm doing it so as not to drill later). But actually, I think I will still run the fiber optic boiler room-living room. Thanks for the info on the type of fiber. As for the sockets, I plan to have 2xSAT, 4xethernet in the living room, now fiber optic cable has also been added. In the rooms 1xSAT, 2xethernet. In addition, on the ceiling in the central part of the house, an Ethernet cable is used to connect the Access Point. The SAT antenna will be on the ground, in front of the house. 6 cables in a blue conduit are supposed to go to it. As for Smart Home, the boxes are to be deeper (e.g. at roller blinds, light switches) - to add drivers someday. This is currently not possible due to cost reasons. It will be done gradually. In addition, a twisted pair cable will be laid from the power switchboard to the boiler room (where cables from the entire house will converge). There will be an ethernet cable for intercom and gate control. The installation will be prepared for photovoltaics (if there are panels, then on the ground, not on the roof) Alarm: there will be motion detectors, a reed switch at the garage door and one large opening window (HST), 2 fire detectors, 2 service keyboards (at the entrance and the garage, I'm thinking about one in the bedroom upstairs - to activate the alarm only downstairs at night ), the alarm control panel is to have such a function that it closes the water solenoid valve when the alarm is armed. Monitoring: Ethernet cables for 4 cameras, the whole thing converges in the utility room where the recorder will be, I want the cameras to have a virtual border function In addition, wiring for recuperation and heat pump control. If anyone has any suggestions on what else to add, please let me know. I will definitely consider. They will be laying the cables after the weekend. Added after 2 [minutes]: That's not the point. Unfortunately, within 6 months, the cost of building materials has increased so much that I have to keep costs in check. That's why now I care about getting the best wiring possible. Here I already know that I will use better cables of the brands you mentioned.

IC_Current · Answer

Do not lead the optical fiber outside, because in the future the operator will rather not connect to this fiber. Firstly, it is not known what he will be laying himself (and different fibers are not welded), secondly, he will not take responsibility for his section. From the patch cabinet to the plot boundary, lay the HDPE pipe and the operator will blow what he needs there. Put the same pipe in the attic if the connection is overhead.
As for the monitoring - only the cables from the cameras connected to the switch in the garage, but the recorder itself in the living room, then you have a direct view via HDMI on the TV. It is also good to give an additional recorder hidden somewhere in the attic with a UPS power supply (this power supply is also for cameras). Then if a thief steals or destroys the recorder in the living room, you have a second one with a copy of the painting in the attic.

rafmik · Answer

The house will have 60m2 per level, 12cm ytong partition walls, 16cm reinforced concrete ceiling. One AP not enough? Now in my apartment I have a Mikrotik RBD52G hAP ac2 router with internal antennas and it covers the whole apartment without any problems in 5Ghz. It's more or less in the center of the apartment. And so he plans to connect the main devices (PC, TV) via Ethernet. Wifi is basically just phones, Smart Home. The SAT antenna will be on the ground, 6x antenna cables will go from it to the utility room. In the utility room there will be cables to individual rooms (2x living room, 1x in each room). In general, I do SAT only because there is no fiber on the plot. If it was, I would go to IPTV. And IPTV and access to the LTE network are a known failure. Now I'm at the cable stage. Converters etc. will be a topic in about 6-8 months. There are plans for a SAT decoder in the living room, a second decoder (multiroom) in one of the rooms, and only terrestrial on other sockets - if you manage to get it. As for DVB-T / DVB-T2, this is a big problem with coverage and I don't know what to do The emitter map shows this: For the location: MUX1: Possibly no coverage with a typical TV antenna MUX2: Possibly no coverage with a typical TV antenna MUX3: Crested MUX8: Crested DVB-T2 TVP test: Grzywacz DVB-T2 TVN test: Possibly no coverage with a typical TV antenna Added after 3 [minutes]: Here, due to the length of the cables (15m), I will go for the CPE solution. Here's a question - do you have to look at these antennas often? It will be at a height of about 6-7m with access only from a ladder :( Unless it will be installed at about 4-4.5 m on the railing next to the window, then access would be after opening the window. The distance to the transmitters is about 2.5-3 km. Nothing blocks the view. SAT and the DVB-T problem I described above

adwlodar · Answer

Damn, and a year ago I also pulled the Quatro + TV system Time to think about retirement... Can you expand on that? Is it something related to Unicable?

IC_Current · Answer

It's hard to predict here. no test in a specific place. Currently, however, the ceilings are heavily reinforced, which can greatly drown out the signal. For example, at my house (old building, without strong reinforcement - I just checked it now, the WiFi 5GHz signal has a level of -90dBm, i.e. not usable after going through the ceiling. As for the range of terrestrial TV. No real-world tests. You need to take the in-phase antenna, go to the roof with it and see the signal parameters on the meter (not on the TV, because there is no reference to the actual state). You probably need to hire someone to measure the signals. Except that with DVB-T2 it will only be worse than it is, so you also need to correct it. Added after 11 [minutes]: SCR is a technical name and Unicable is a marketing name for the non-technical. SCR has the advantage over multiswitches that, as a standard, you have four carriers on cheap equipment (that is, you record and watch as many as four channels simultaneously on a set-top box) on one cable. On the multiswitch, you need to lead two wires to the decoder (you watch and record only two programs). In addition, such converters often have two full band outputs for connecting standard decoders (in practice, just right for multiroom). On the SCR you can also have multiswitches if necessary in really large facilities. Then you connect the SCR converter with 16 or 32 carriers to the multiswitch with one cable and then distribute it to another SCR with four carriers or to a full band. You can also use Wide Band converters instead of SCR. Then you have an unlimited number of simultaneous channels on two wires.

Anonymous · Answer

It's not as obvious as you think. CPEs typically have weak, medium-gain antennas, and any antenna can be connected to the internal router, which can significantly improve signals and speeds over CPEs. Even if there is a little antenna cable. With this length of antenna cables, it's such an internet myth. But the fact is that with CPE it is much simpler and more reliable than a router + antennas. But that's something to worry about when the time comes. LTE stands for Here and Now. What may be lux today, in six months or a year may be mediocre or even tragic. C'est la vie... If you want to have some peace of mind, anticipate cable culverts for LTE. The cables themselves have small diameters - typically 5...7mm, sometimes cables with a diameter of ~11mm are used. But the connectors can be relatively large diameters - for example, the N connector used for antennas is ~22mm in diameter. The connectors at the router are about 15mm in diameter. So a pass of at least 25mm in diameter would be useful. Unfortunately - LTE is a living thing - as I wrote above - Here and Now. In most cases, once you set yourself up, it will be for years, unless you change the operator or the mast. But it may also be that adjustments need to be made from time to time. At such distances, it can be quite good with signals. But, if you take measurements and then put the modem, a lot will be clarified. Open direction is not always cool in LTE. Such a technique. But why retire immediately - you replace the multiswitch with a universal FullBand / unicable, and then you calmly replace subsequent set-top boxes with uni and you are up to date ... And what fun new set-top boxes ...

adwlodar · Answer

Just nothing bought yet, just a midwife installation. So I will have to think and read carefully when buying what to choose. Thanks!

KOCUREK1970 · Answer

@rafmik I don't know about my colleague, but I get here more and more often on topics that people from LTE inform that they are currently either being kicked out of the brazen BTS, or band aggregation stops working - but neither the client has changed the position of the antenna, modem or just the location in relation to mast and such flowers are starting to come out. Do not buy any antennas, nothing at this stage except the cable to the antenna itself, do not install the mast from the BTS side - when starting the LTE net at home, only check the signal from the BTS, what and how it aggregates and only then buy antennas, if any.

rafmik · Answer

I'm talking about cables right now. Everything else is a topic for March-May 2022

rafmik · Answer

For information:
Delay after delay :/
Virtually all of the cable suggestions in this thread have been done.
Only the installation under the antenna from the Internet I changed due to the distance - there are no coaxial cables, there are only 2xUTP 6kat. So the antenna will have to be with a built-in modem. But that's a topic for April if all goes well...

I am currently in the monitoring phase. 4 cameras, twisted pair connection, recorder. It would be nice if the solution was slightly intelligent - it would notify the phone when someone appears in the designated zone or crosses the virtual line. And it would be great if it was smart enough to distinguish a person from, for example, a dog or a bird flying by the camera.
Anyone can recommend something? I start looking around.

Mxer123 · Answer

I'm thinking, once a long time ago I used H1000 wires for radios .... will they not work with such 15m?

matek451 · Answer

The main obstacle with the H1000 is their price and the thickness and difficulty in routing such cables, of course, if someone knows how to do it, earn connectors and can afford 30m of cable, then why not.

What cables to run to the external LTE antenna?

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