Has Celma been sold and production is now located in China?

Hi

I have a question about the Celma brand. Is it true that it was sold to the Chinese and they produce it in China? I heard this from the seller as well as that they currently have poor quality. Maybe he lied because he wanted to sell something else, but I don`t know.
If Celma was sold like this, I would be grateful for information about when it happened. I like some of this company`s power tools, so in that case I will hunt for used ones.

Hello, Z-Power Sp. z o. o

https://portalnarzedzi.pl/artykul/celma-historia-polskich-elektronarzedzi/

Does anyone use Celma quite intensively? Is it quite durable, it won`t fall apart quickly like the "market" ones?

I have a mixer of this "brand", apart from the sticker with the name Celma, the rest is a classic Chinese one, but it must be admitted that it mixed a ton of sand with cement and is still alive
V

0ceanborn wrote:

Does anyone use Celma quite intensively? Is it quite durable, it won`t fall apart quickly like the "market" ones?

I use a few more, mainly a heavy slow speed drill. It has been working reliably for years and has done a lot of work. Well, it`s still an old, solid production from the 1970s. I doubt that today`s "Chinese" products branded as Celma will withstand even a few years of intensive and serious work.

I have the same experience as my friend Mobali - you can`t get there from the 1970s (unless someone really insists). The old drill drills like it did 50 years ago and still drills today.

What I meant in this topic was not only whether Celma is Chinese - we already know that, but how it relates to quality.
OK - Chinese - weak, falls apart quickly - this is the stereotype, although it doesn`t work that way. The Chinese can produce anything, both low-end products and good-quality equipment - it`s all a matter of ordering.
It is quite likely that the Chinese Celma will not be as durable as those made in Poland, but if it can withstand a good few years of decent work without a major failure, that`s also good.

0ceanborn wrote:

OK - Chinese - weak, falls apart quickly - this is the stereotype, although it doesn`t work that way. The Chinese can produce anything, from low-end products to good-quality equipment - it`s all a matter of ordering.

I also prefer to avoid stereotypes and I know perfectly well that the Chinese can easily make products of the highest quality. And he does them, but the principle applies here: "what you pay for, what you get." However, in this case, I assure you that this new "Celma" is definitely not professional and the best quality equipment from this "top shelf".

It must be pointed out that this bad practice of spoiling brands is currently dominant in every field. And it applies not only to local Polish, but also to once solid, large European brands. The recipe is simple: "take a well-known brand and print a sticker to put on the cheapest Asian product." In this way, the company does not produce, and its activity is limited to practically costless (compared to the entire production cycle) branding and marketing. Works? Certainly yes, even brilliantly, generating very quick profits. No one is interested in the long-term effects of this damage in the form of reputation damage. Nobody cares about the emasculation of local industry or the slaughter of innovation. Not to mention the dependency of the economy or the piles of garbage. Today, only the bars that matter, growing here and now. And what`s after us? Even the flood

And who will buy more products if the old, good ones do not (won`t) spoil?

stanislaw1954 wrote:

who will buy more products if the old, good ones do not (won`t) spoil?

This is one side of the coin.

The second one, as mentioned, is riding on the brand`s legend. The recipe is simple, buy the rights to the name, for example "junak". Download ten containers of the cheapest crap that looks like a motorcycle from China. Cover them or order them from your local dealer, already labeled with the name.

A father will buy one for his son, or a grandfather will buy one for his grandson because he used to drive a speedster himself. And the fact that this new junk is a hundred times worse in quality than the old one, which wasn`t a revelation either? Price. If you can buy a new Moto from a showroom for an average salary?

Some time ago, I happened to work in a showroom and service center of several brands where a Kingway or other gu o and the flagship Peugeot speedfight 2 WRC model were standing next to each other. Błgot 12 circles and Chinol below three. Guess what people bought? And later, what more was at our service center than was driven under the owner`s ass? But I tortured the Peugeot mentioned earlier, I literally tortured it for two years. And he was completely fine. The service (in the form of my hands) was only seen during operational service.

Dear author, I apply certain rules when it comes to power tools.

For example, a manual milling machine. It became necessary for one job, the next use may be in six months or maybe in a year.
Here is the cheapest Chinol from the market. If it doesn`t fall apart right away, it won`t fall apart from lying down either.

Second example. SDS. For one big job, insulating a cottage. Later, occasionally, a shelf or drilling for a cable. Castorama and their Performance Power brand. Of course, parameters such as the need, i.e. a strong impact, etc. are much more attractive in terms of price than a branded tool with these parameters, and when I break the tool during the warranty period, they usually replace it with a new one instead of repairing it.

Third, tools that I use frequently and from which I require ease of use and precision. Angle grinder, screwdrivers, Dremel, jigsaw or others. Unfortunately, you have to look a little deeper into your wallet here. I just liked DeWalt, Makita and Metabo tools.

Only... You can find the same brands in DIY stores. Don`t buy them there. I happen to have a nice store nearby that is a distributor of the above-mentioned brands. But there are also distributors on the Internet. You need to call your representative in Poland and find out where their distribution points are. Why so much trouble?

From my backyard. Over a year ago I needed a new grinder. I bought it my way for about six hundred DeWalt. After discounts because it was more expensive in retail.
Somehow, over a beer, my neighbor and I agreed that he, too, needed a grinder. I showed mine and recommended purchasing it.
I told where I bought it and offered to help because I had a discount.

During the next beer a week later, he laughed at me and said how foolish I was because he bought an identical one on sale at Casto for PLN 229. I brought mine and we compared it. They look very similar, the models are different. However, at work they are completely different tools. Switch operation, play, vibration. The boy got sad...

stanislaw1954 wrote:

And who will buy more products if the old, good ones do not (won`t) spoil?

But there was a time when you bought solid products that lasted for years and did not fall apart in your hands. I bought it myself and I still have and use several such tools. Interestingly, this period of solid production happened to coincide with exceptional economic development in the West. So how? It used to be possible, but now it`s not possible?

Mobali wrote:

It used to be possible, but now it`s not possible?

Now it is also possible to produce good ones, but it is not profitable for producers.

It depends on what you mean by good. For me, good ones, good enough, are those that will last for several years of intense work or 10-20 years of less intense work, while a commercially-owned Ciatronix that won`t keep the 2-year warranty until the end is not enough.

There is another side of the coin.
I wonder how long my colleagues can work with such an old, solid, uncomfortable and heavy single-speed drill.

and how long should it be a relatively modern one, although perhaps not top-of-the-line, but light, multi-functional, and for a pittance?

And I know what I`m asking because I have both - the first one is lying forgotten somewhere in the corner, the second one has been used quite frequently, although at home, for several years...
V

0ceanborn wrote:

Does anyone use Celma quite intensively? Is it quite durable, it won`t fall apart quickly like the "market" ones?

I have a Celmy two-speed drill, a dozen or so years old, apparently the last one made in Poland, used at home, but quite intensively. Drilling, often in 10 mm steel, in a chuck, as a bench drill. It works as a mixer, I insulated the whole house with it, made several screeds, and did some home renovations. Recently I replaced the rotor and caliper, surprisingly the bearings still have no play.
In addition, I have two Celma grinders, one probably 1000W (I don`t know exactly, because the sticker has already worn off) with speed regulation, the other 750W. The first one was still repaired under warranty, I think some thermal protection went wrong. So far they have worked flawlessly. Even though I use them at home, I do a lot of welding, for myself and some odd jobs, the tools are still working. One has a cutting disc, the other a grinding disc.
The last Celma is a hammer drill, I`ve had it for 2 years, it didn`t work much, I rarely use it for forging, the largest drill bit I used was 20 mm, when I was drilling through the ceiling, previously I used a smaller one. Before I bought it, I read opinions, people complained about a weak stroke, I think 2.3J, for me it is enough.
For me, Celma is OK for my needs, both in terms of quality and price. The only thing I can accuse these tools (apart from the hammer drill) is poor ergonomics. Grinders do not fit well in the hand.

As for tools made in China, I have a Hilti screwdriver and an impact wrench, Made in China, and solid tools. When I asked the local service center about a possible repair, I was told that the Hilti does not break down, only the batteries wear out. Not everything from China is of poor quality, I have used a lot of power tools and branded ones, although bought in supermarkets and typically supermarket products, have had different experiences.

vorlog wrote:

how long can my colleagues work with an old, solid, uncomfortable and heavy, single-speed drill and how long can they work with a relatively modern, although not top-of-the-line, light, multi-functional drill?

You`re right, today`s tools are certainly different, probably more ergonomic, and above all - there is a huge selection. However, your comparison is not entirely fair. Well, how can you combine a multifunctional tool with a specialized one? And as for multitasking... I had almost the entire Celma EMA Combi set, so for those years I had no complaints at all. Nowadays, it would be difficult to find a multi-function drill, grinders for various jobs and various, sometimes very specialized, attachments in one box. Almost anything could be done with it.

Comparing prices then and now does not make much sense. No matter what kind of drill you bought in the 1970s, it would probably be more expensive than it is now. However, this is mainly due to the purchasing power of one average salary in that period. But compared to the equipment offered in the West, Celma was many times cheaper. It could also compete on price even with power tools from the former Eastern Bloc. No matter what you do, it used to be useful equipment, of decent quality and affordable for the average person. Today? The cheapest one is of terrible quality and low durability. And you still have to pay a lot for a good or even decent one.

Not what I meant.
I meant long-term use of the tool, e.g. drilling hundreds of φ8 holes in, for example, 45x45 metallurgical angles, vertically.
The heavy Celma made you sweat so much that the skin came off your toes...
The modern ones are simply lighter, fit better in the hand, etc.
V

vorlog wrote:

e.g. drilling hundreds of φ8 holes in, say, 45x45 metallurgical angles, vertically.

What does vertical mean?

Material in a vertical position, i.e. drill horizontally - e.g. holes in fence posts, garage structures/skeletons...
V

Hello, parts for celma here:
https://sprzedujemy.pl/oferty-uzytkownika-7150642

ay56 wrote:

Hello, parts for celma here:
https://sprzedujemy.pl/oferty-uzytkownika-7150642

One used drill and also a used gear. Is this supposed to be a place with parts for Celma? Christmas jokes.

you can`t buy new ones. because they do not produce e.g gear)

I was surprised when in a DIY store I found products with the CELMA marking on the shelf (new, of course). I expect that according to decent rules there would be spare parts for them. But nowadays, counting on decency is simple naivety.

Unless you look for parts on AllieExpres.
or to the guy from the link, you need to call and make an agreement, I bought parts in good condition and I am satisfied. just to Celma.

Yesterday I looked through all the power tools at Leroy Merlin, OBI and Casto and found only one hammer drill made in Germany and two screwdrivers made in Malaysia. The rest are marked Made in China or have no country of production entered, so they are also made in China.
Additionally, I looked at my iPhone 13PRO - Made in China
My newest MacBook for PLN 13,000 - Made in China.
And in addition, Elon Musk is intensively moving Tesla's production to China and 10% (i.e. the highest percentage) is sold in China
I guess we overslept that in the meantime the world has changed and no production (except military) in Europe and the USA is possible anymore, much less the return of this production

wolff7 wrote:

Yesterday I looked through all the power tools at Leroy Merlin, OBI and Casto and found only one hammer drill made in Germany and two screwdrivers made in Malaysia. The rest are marked Made in China or have no country of production entered, so they are also made in China.
Additionally, I looked at my iPhone 13PRO - Made in China
My newest MacBook for PLN 13,000 - Made in China.
And in addition, Elon Musk is intensively moving Tesla`s production to China and 10% (i.e. the highest percentage) is sold in China
I guess we overslept that in the meantime the world has changed and no production (except military) in Europe and the USA is possible anymore, much less the return of this production

A supervised production process with know-how or an own factory in China is one thing, and production outsourcing is another thing, which the client has no influence on because he has no control there. Therefore, branded goods produced in China will be more expensive, because the owner usually cares about quality and has cheap labor, although currently it is not that cheap in China.

vorlog wrote:

There is another side of the coin.
I wonder how long my colleagues can work with such an old, solid, uncomfortable and heavy single-speed drill.

That`s why I use it occasionally only for mixing adhesive mortar, concrete, etc. It has worked perfectly in this role for years, it has the right speed and torque. There`s no chance of burning it.
I do everything else with a handy Bosch which I wouldn`t mind using to mix concrete. Anyway, I don`t know if he could handle it.

It so happens that, to be honest, before the pandemic, I had the pleasure of visiting China in person and visiting several factories, so I also saw what the supervision of representatives of international brands in Chinese factories looks like. I must admit that such supervision is a great fiction, because Chinese engineers have 10 times more knowledge than our European and Chinese engineers, they have to supervise such supervisors themselves so as not to harm themselves. For example, to prevent the tie from getting caught in the rotor winding machine. This is what the supervision of companies from Germany, Japan, Great Britain and Poland looks like, producing their machines in the same factory only in two or three halls next to each other, and sometimes one production line of a global brand is located directly next to the production line of another global brand.

Producing power tools is nothing.

Almost all global smartphone brands are produced in China in only 4 factories, and 40% of the engineering comes from Chinese engineers. In a few years, it will surely turn out that Chinese technical thought is 70%.

I was surprised how modern machine tools the Chinese have and how efficient their organization and work pace are compared to the modern factories I visited in Germany. In a few years, Europe will be a technologically backward place vs. China

Our entire Western world exported all technical thought and production to China, and the reason for this was only one thing - the greed for greater profit through lower costs.

I agree that the Chinese have long overtaken us technologically, because it is not only the world`s factory, but also their projects. Maybe 30 years ago it was a backward economy, but for about 20 years they have been overtaking many European countries, and now they have overtaken them, maybe in some aspects Germany and the USA still have something to say, but it is a matter of time, because Chinese cars are not sold in Europe, only because the industry lobby is blocking them by not granting approvals, but they are already appearing and the Chinese are simply buying Western companies and doing their own thing.