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Celma PRCb - retro drill from electro-junk - simple repair and teardown - is it worth it?

p.kaczmarek2 5841 43
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • Old Celma PRCb single-speed drill on a wooden table. .
    Today we are going to look at a single-speed, no-impact drill from a bygone era. This is another old piece of equipment that I will try to run here. I have identified the model of the equipment as a Celma PRCb, although the nameplate is partially worn out:
    Old Celma PRCb drill with partially worn nameplate. .
    The first thing I started with was checking the whole thing with a meter. I wanted to check if there was by any chance a short circuit or a puncture on the housing. It appears that everything is fine.
    Next, I checked the gears. A socket spanner will come in handy:
    Celma PRCb drill with a socket wrench attached. Old Celma PRCb drill on a wooden table, with a socket wrench and a screw nearby. .
    I don't see the damage, the grease should be changed, but I need to buy or borrow any first:
    Open gear housing of a Celma PRCb drill on a wooden surface with a coin nearby. Open gearbox housing of a Celma PRCb drill showing the gear mechanism. .
    Then it was time for the brushes. We unscrew them, carefully so that the spring doesn't pop out:
    Close-up of a damaged plastic component on an old Celma PRCb drill. .
    About her:
    Spring and internal housing of the old Celma PRCb drill. Close-up view of Celma PRCb drill with a damaged button.
    Here's the carbon brush. It's not that bad:
    View of connector with wire in old electrical equipment View of a drill with switch components on a metal casing. .
    Then I decided to connect the whole thing to the power supply and.... works! But what do you mean, without a button?
    The button must be faulty or someone has shorted it out. Let's check.
    Interior of an old Celma PRCb drill showing the motor and wiring. Close-up of an old switch with partially connected wires. Disassembled electric drill with visible wires and motor fragment. .
    Indeed... someone has deliberately omitted the button, is it defective?
    Unfortunately in the process of taking it apart the plastic broke:
    Disassembled switch components with damaged plastic on a workbench. .
    However, this is a great opportunity to look inside:
    Dismantled drill switch on a wooden table. .
    With this amount of dirt, it is not surprising that this button did not short circuit. I checked with a multimeter. Indeed, there is no contact.
    Metal parts and springs lying on a paper towel. Switch components, including springs and metal elements, on a paper towel.
    How dirty it all is.... I took a cloth, IPA, a sander and started to gently remove the dirt. By the way, this switch has two modes - either momentary, or you can also push in the pin and lock it temporarily in a shorted state.
    Disassembled drill parts on a paper towel. .
    Pictured in the process of fitting the switch back on:
    Disassembled switch from a Celma drill on a paper towel. Inside of a plastic switch casing with visible contacts.
    Here a toothpick temporarily holds one of the elements for me:
    Disassembled switch of Celma PRCb drill with internal components on paper. .
    Turning:
    Person holding a disassembled switch of a device on a paper towel. View of an electrical switch with protruding screws and components on a paper background. .
    I shortened the screws, which were too long, and prevented them from dislodging with a drop of glue.
    Close-up of a plastic electrical switch on a wooden table.
    And all this fun was actually a bit of art for art's sake, as the switch can be bought new:
    Photo of a listing for a switch for an old Celma drill, priced at 10.90 PLN. .
    Nevertheless, I gave my "sculpture" a chance and success - it works ! Looks like my new old Celma is working.
    By the way, I can see brushes to buy too, not bad.

    Summary .
    This gear is just having a blast. And you can feel that lack of control, because as you've all probably noticed, there's no adjustment here, it's a simple 'on-off' switch. So what if it works and will probably last longer than many Chinese products? And maybe I'm wrong, what are your experiences with the Celma? Is it worth investing in this find? For me personally, this is unfortunately too old a piece of equipment for me to have as I remember, so it's hard for me to determine and I just don't know enough.
    Feel free to comment, any advice would certainly be appreciated.

    Cool? Ranking DIY
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    About Author
    p.kaczmarek2
    Moderator Smart Home
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    p.kaczmarek2 wrote 11914 posts with rating 9980, helped 571 times. Been with us since 2014 year.
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  • #2 21196357
    Simon79
    Level 21  
    In my opinion, it is ALWAYS WORTH saving an old appliance from disposal, even if it no longer has any use value but only sentimental value :) .
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  • #3 21196376
    p.kaczmarek2
    Moderator Smart Home
    I think so too, and in addition I always try to upload some photos to the forum in our "Appliance Interiors" section, to which all readers are warmly invited.
    Helpful post? Buy me a coffee.
  • #4 21196386
    Mastertech
    Level 27  
    The insulation will get punctures very quickly, it is the weakest point of the age-old equipment.
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  • #5 21196440
    chemik_16
    Level 26  
    Nothing prevents giving a triac adjustable switch from some newer drill :)
  • #6 21196458
    E8600
    Level 41  
    Power 380 W, 580 rpm - very useful, whereas today you can find maximum rpm close to 4000 in drills. This type of drill construction is still popular today in Pakistani films of repairing various machines, often drilling into thick steel with 20-30 mm diameter drills. I own an Elprom drill myself, and it is not afraid of shunted drills. Those were the days when equipment was manufactured for 100% duty cycle.
    Today, such equipment has very narrow utility values due to the weight and ergonomics of the tool itself. An inexperienced user can end up with damaged wrists if a drill bit gets stuck because, despite its modest torque output, it is not lacking. Both Celma and Elprom were licensed equipment.

    With a rigid stand, such a drill would work well today as a bench drill.
  • #7 21196495
    tompaw
    Level 14  
    Hello

    Of course it is worth repairing such equipment and of course it is not museum equipment. A fortnight ago I repaired a colleague the same one, the colleague replaced the rotor because it was burnt and the drill would not work anymore. The switch was damaged (I didn't repair it because the locking mechanism had been torn out) and the "washers" that press the brushes were crooked and the brushes didn't touch the commutator. I 7 years ago when I was insulating a house with a total of about 160m^2 walls I just bought a mixer and mixed the polystyrene glue with this particular drill. In places where I don't have the possibility to drill / ream a hole with a table drill I happened to drill several times with a drill bit even about 30mm (tapered so that you can catch it in the head) and as my colleague wrote earlier it is necessary to hold this non apparent drill bit very tightly. In my youthful years, several times while drilling something I twisted the power cable when it got out of my hands. Then just replacing the cable and the drill continues to work.

    Regards
    TomPaw
  • #8 21196704
    bearq
    Level 39  
    These drills were probably made under licence from Bosch, and there were several or maybe a dozen "modules" on this basis alone. There were two types of drills with different speed ranges, there were angle drills, sheet metal cutters, straight grinders etc. In addition, they had weak rotors, and to dismantle them you had to have a special puller, which also did not always work.
    The equipment itself, by the standards of the time, was pretty decent and, as some colleagues have already written, without a good deal of persistence it could do a lot of harm to the operator.
    Personally, I prefer newer branded equipment, the ergonomics on these Celms were nil.
  • #9 21196789
    E8600
    Level 41  
    bearq wrote:
    These drills were probably made under licence from Bosch
    .
    Elprom, on the other hand, is a licence probably from AEG. Elprom has 'rebranded' itself as Sparky.

    I wonder if this plethora of attachments for the Celma was also due to the licence or were they the result of the ingenuity of domestic engineers?
    https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=ad3cebe...2ahUKEwip66rxgIKIAxVaGRAIHW6SCsoQtKgLegQIGxAB
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  • #10 21196976
    tesla97
    Level 18  
    E8600 wrote:
    Rotations of 580 rpm - very useful, while today in drills you can find maximum rotations close to 4000
    .

    I have an old Russian drill (probably from the celma years) it has two handles on the sides but not on the top, the drill is turned with two frog keys or a hammer. It is not very powerful but its undoubted advantage is the very low speed, the regulator already given does not work it is only on-off. However, there is no problem with the 16 (turned to 13 at the end) drill bit (of course, in a reasonable thickness of sheet metal, because then you take it between your legs) and with mixers for glue or mortar.

    The new ones have such high speeds that they are virtually useless. A powerful drill and you won't get anything done because it spins like a 6 drill, not a 16.
  • #11 21197109
    lopr_pol
    Level 32  
    My father had such a drill, I used it myself when I was young to make holes for cans in suporex ;) precisely because it was powerful and had a slow speed.
  • #12 21197164
    Zbigniew Rusek
    Level 38  
    >>21197109 The slow speed is advantageous when drilling in hard metals (steel, cast iron) and (if a percussion cap is fitted) - in concrete. The disadvantage of these drills was that they were about 2 times heavier than their contemporaries.
  • #13 21197389
    bulek01
    Level 16  
    I observe that you upload a lot of cool descriptions with the demolition of old equipment.
    How do you manage to source them ? In my town you can't get anything from the electro rubbish collection point, and they have a lot of interesting stuff.
  • #14 21197665
    Inkwizycja
    Level 30  
    I don't know maybe I'm a hoarder but I have: one like this, a similar Soviet one, 2 green Celmis, 2 East German ones similar to the Celmis and one Soviet one on the top of the range i.e. with variable speed control only drill bit up to 6mm :) Note the way the spindle bearing is seated: it is in metal and not in plastic as nowadays and after some time it doesn't fly like .... around an empty shop. When I see such equipment for 20-30zł at the exchange, market, I can not pass indifferently :-)
  • #15 21197816
    Zbigniew Rusek
    Level 38  
    >>21197665 Too bad it's far away (Legnica). I would gladly exchange my Bulgarian for one green Celma (my Bulgarian has 1 gear and the green Celma has 2 gears, I think).
  • #16 21198298
    ptero
    Level 24  
    An old Celma is always worth saving, only that anti-interference capacitor I would replace, they tend to explode from old age. I have not found an adjustable switch that will fit without modifications. I often repair such drills - brushes and just capacitors. And then there are those unfortunate plastic wires (power cords) that still remember the People's Republic of Poland. :) .
  • #17 21198305
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • #18 21198865
    tank_driver
    Level 17  
    One thing's for sure - it's not a wrist-saving drill for working at height - dangerous. The modern ones have smaller rotors with much less inertia, not to mention wrist-saving protection (I have this on my Bosch). We had an old Hitachi at the company, there was one who didn't want to work with the newer ones because 'he knows this one', it jammed his 14mm drill and twisted him so badly that he fell off the roof, luckily into the shavings and he was only frightened. Since "then" he has turned to the newer ones. Sentimentally, yes. For regular work it is a pity, and there are much better tools today.
  • #19 21198915
    PPK
    Level 29  
    My CELMA PRC-10 (green), is almost 40 years old. It has even undergone welding of the housing plastic (handle). Brushes fitted 3 times already. Bearing replacement. Replacement of cable. Replacement of the fur. . Engine is not to be taken care of... , only cleaning every few years. Judging by the motor windings (Ø Cu), it has at least 100% redundancy according to modern standards ( Chinese probably). And, of course, the repair of the switch.
  • #20 21198928
    Frog_Qmak
    Level 25  
    We still have one at my parents' house :D It actually "kicks" on take-off, I hadn't noticed it before :)
  • #22 21199303
    andrzejlisek
    Level 31  
    I have an identical drill in a stand similar to the Celma PRX 2. Most similar in appearance to this stand https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1HIXRDhY8Y , my stand differs from the one in the video in the following details:
    - On the left side on the piece attached to the vertical tube it has a screw, which is not present here.
    - On the right a rotating rod with rubber tips the same as in the vice, shorter than in this video.
    - It is not painted.
    - In the video you can see the guide in the shape of a flat bar, in my stand it is in the shape of a rod.
    To raise or lower the rest position, loosen both screws (first on the right, then on the left), raise or lower and tighten both screws (first on the left, then on the right).

    As for the Celma drill, in my opinion, it is as useful as possible and worth saving, but provided the drill is straight, just in mine, the spindle is minimally damaged I think and when you put the drill on, some maybe half a millimetre off the vertical and the tip of the drill instead of spinning in place, staggers a very small circle. In my case this doesn't bother me so much, but it does reduce the precision of the work being done and there have been times when the hole has been half a millimetre (and sometimes a millimetre) off the planned one.

    If using for wall drilling, and other more difficult work where the drill is held by hand, then in my opinion, it is a good idea to remove the side handle located at the spindle and grip the drill by the body. The grip is more secure and you get a better feel, you feel like you have better control of the tool.
  • #23 21201709
    strikexp
    Level 27  
    The old Celma is, as far as I can see, an old-school motor. I.e. a so-called universal slow speed motor. Something that is almost impossible to buy in Poland, in China they make such for example for mini lathes and other dummies.
    It was designed in the communist era for 50 years of operation. A real treasure, as long as it works.
    And the lack of speed regulation can be solved with an external soft start or speed controller.
  • #24 21201716
    andrzejlisek
    Level 31  
    strikexp wrote:
    A lack of speed control can be solved with an external soft start or speed controller.

    I inherited my drill and stand from my father, who used a TaR-1.6 or TaR-2.5 lab autotransformer (model determined from pictures on the web, I don't know how they differ) for speed control, which I also own. Back then, when I was a kid, I would sometimes plug in various simple household machines (malaxer, hairdryer, hoover, all remembering communist Poland) and you could adjust the speed. It seemed that changing the voltage was the only way to change the speed of any motor. Also in the case of a DC motor, where a rectifier (incorporating a 220V=>12V transformer) is between the autotransformer and the motor.

    A very simple device, zero electronics, only that it is heavy and bulky.
  • #25 21201722
    strikexp
    Level 27  
    Only an autotransformer of such power is damn expensive. In the '80s that made sense. Because electronics were also damn expensive. Today, you can buy a thyristor speed controller for a few tens of zlotys on an allegro. In new devices this does not help much, because the motors are limited by the load and not by the amount of power supplied. However, in such old slow-running motors, the effect will probably be better.
    A universal soft starter costs less than PLN 20 at the Allegro website.
  • #26 21203498
    Michał_74
    Level 33  
    Welcome.
    Celna manufactures further. It has a shop on www with parts. And they even buy up old damaged machines.
    I often source parts from their service centre in Goleszów. One of the former factories.
    This particular drill had 2 engine models. I don't remember the difference in power but it was about 100W and they differed in the length of the motor module itself by about 1.5 cm
    These particular aluminium ones were not licensed.
    The Bosch licence was only in the early '90s and covered the "plastic" equipment but they put "licence" plates on all the machines.
    And one more thing I know from service technicians from the company workshops of those years Cieszyn and Goleszów. These drills were not suitable for use with the speed control switch off. The engines were on fire.
    Like the predecessors. How many wrists were broken by these drills is the question.
    Greetings.
  • #27 21203651
    bearq
    Level 39  
    Michał_74 wrote:
    Celna manufactures further. It has a shop on www with parts. And they even buy up old damaged machines.
    I often source parts from their service centre in Goleszów. One of the former factories.
    .
    Rather they have not been manufacturing for a few years now, they have become an intermediary.
    Michał_74 wrote:
    These particular aluminium ones were not under licence.

    Right here, they were a scrapped copy of a Bosch or Fein drill, it was not a Polish design.
    Michał_74 wrote:
    The Bosch licence was only in the early '90s and included "plastic" equipment"
    .
    In the 1970s'
  • #28 21207136
    398216 Usunięty
    Level 43  
    p.kaczmarek2 wrote:
    This thing just has a bump.

    It has and this goes hand in hand with power. My brother was once drilling holes in the ceiling for pegs to suspend a chandelier. He hit the rebar and the drill turned him along with the ladder.... His hand was sore for a few months. So I advise you to be careful of such an eventuality....
  • #29 21207169
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • #30 21207187
    398216 Usunięty
    Level 43  
    BBElektrotechnik wrote:
    I don't know.

    You are right. I should rather write: "HAS POWER ON THE FUR".

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the Celma PRCb, a vintage single-speed drill, focusing on its repairability and utility. Users express a strong sentiment for preserving old appliances, citing their durability and unique characteristics. The drill's power (380 W) and low RPM (580) are highlighted as advantageous for specific tasks, such as drilling into hard materials. Concerns about insulation degradation and the potential for short circuits are noted, along with suggestions for modern modifications like triac adjustable switches. Users share personal experiences with similar models, emphasizing the importance of regular maintenance, such as replacing brushes and capacitors. The conversation also touches on the historical context of Celma drills, their licensing with brands like Bosch, and the evolution of drill technology.
Summary generated by the language model.
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