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[Solved] How to connect the OFF-GRID 1-F inverter in a 3-P installation with a circuit by

rademenes787 31131 42
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  • #31 19696121
    rademenes787
    Level 6  
    Maverick73 wrote:
    rademenes787 wrote:
    ... a bit of a mistake that the inverter is 24V and not 48.


    I have 3 converters (ultimately there will be 4) for 12V and I think that I don't need either 24V or 48V. Each converter has its own, as I write it, service area. I don't load one device.
    The system is running nice ... fridge, automatic machine, computer, TV, lighting and other ... batteries practically constantly charged .. this is a support, not a power factory.


    Wow, what an interesting solution. Why 3 or 4? Different for each phase or what? What inverters? What schematic?
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  • #32 19697115
    Maverick73
    Level 36  
    My vision and execution. I also have 3-F at home and it only uses one phase. Each inverter has something under it, e.g. one only for a washing machine, the machine has a power consumption of up to 1800W, a 2000W sine inverter ... cool. The next ones have other devices that do not exceed the maximum power consumption. Any unforeseen situation will eliminate only one circuit ... just like the fuses in the house ... one short circuit one fuse, you don't lose power in the whole house ... right.
    And there are other good sides of such a solution ... e.g. the inverter will break down ... you are waiting for a repair or you have to buy a new one and there is no electricity ... in my case the others always work in this case, as well as with the batteries one of the 4 rains but 3 are still working... and there can only be one with the same capacity as 4pcs.
    I do not need any phase switches or similar, for me this role is played by a comparator and a 2P 5V RM84 8A relay.
    The failure of your PF-441 costs PLN 300 and my RM84 PLN 3 ... 4kWh from panels and the cost of RM returned ...
    I don't have schematics because I do everything from my head ...
    That's it ...
  • #33 19697198
    rademenes787
    Level 6  
    Maverick73 wrote:
    My vision and execution. I also have 3-F at home and it only uses one phase. Each inverter has something under it, e.g. one only for a washing machine, the machine has a power consumption of up to 1800W, a 2000W sine inverter ... cool. The next ones have other devices that do not exceed the maximum power consumption. Any unforeseen situation will eliminate only one circuit ... just like the fuses in the house ... one short circuit one fuse, you do not lose power in the whole house ... right.
    And there are other good sides of such a solution ... e.g. the inverter will break down ... you are waiting for a repair or you have to buy a new one and there is no electricity ... in my case, the others always work in this case, as well as with the batteries one of the 4 rains but 3 are still working... and there can only be one with the same capacity as 4pcs.
    I do not need any phase switches or similar, for me this role is played by a comparator and a 2P 5V RM84 8A relay.
    The failure of your PF-441 costs PLN 300 and my RM84 PLN 3 ... 4kWh from panels and the cost of RM returned ...
    I don't have schematics because I do everything from my head ...
    That's it ...


    Well, you can anyway. This is probably a good approach, but the devil is in the details. I'd probably miss a lot from you, but probably not everything. If you say 3 or 4 inverters, how many panels do you have? each inverter has dedicated panels? Maybe when it comes to equipment failures, it would be enough to have a second spare? After all, your inverters probably did not give away for free, so you have the cost of the inverter x4. You'd have to sit down and count. At the moment, I estimate with the processing of the dashboard about 12 thousand. When it comes to the phase switch, it's a nice toy, I burned PLN 300, but I found a nice replacement for PLN 200, it does everything the same and has additional regulations. Meanwhile, the poor guy on fire is waiting for a couple of varistors and a circuit board, maybe we can resuscitate him ... (cost PLN 20). The issue of batteries, it also annoys me a bit that I have to buy identical ones and buy them in pairs, instead of what I can get .. well, the whole point is to find a golden mean here on the electrode.
    Greet and wait for a reply.
    PS I started the system with a new phase switch and after removing the above-mentioned fault, everything sucks. The only thing that on these cloudy days the production is = "0"
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  • #34 19697311
    Maverick73
    Level 36  
    rademenes787 wrote:
    PS I started the system with a new phase switch and after removing the above-mentioned fault, everything sucks. The only thing that on these cloudy days the production is = "0"


    I am in the black today despite the cloudy weather 1kWh and water in the boiler 65 ° C. But there was no one too much at home from the morning to use this energy ... so there would probably be more ...
    Panels 180W x 21 stimulants.
    Panels with accessories at bargain prices (new accessories) ... between 5-6 thousand total.
    From 12V to 3 x100Ah they are doing great ... after a year of 100% battery life.
    Since May (5 months) of this year, counting 900kWh, I have PLN 640 in my pocket, only recently I have connected more power-consuming devices, which I hope for even greater yield in the coming months.
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  • #35 19697435
    rademenes787
    Level 6  
    Well, apart from the fact that it's 21 used panels versus my 8 new 370W panels, it's probably an impressive result. I definitely need to do some digging to get the most out of my system. I don't think it's the inverter's fault that it produces electricity or not? What are your inverters?
    I am also thinking about joining the well-known el-car system for heating water, but rather on the principle of "switching" to such an inverter due to the small number of panels ...
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    #36 19697533
    Maverick73
    Level 36  
    Mine is Volt 1000S and Epever 4210AN regulator. But meanwhile, the current only gives 4210.
    But I want to rework it a bit because I see that I have 40A max, that's what 4210AN gives me, so I think that one more will be equipped to have remote control for it. It will already be 80A and maybe 1000S will join (there will be a welding machine) :)
    There were 21 panels because ... on a cloudy (rainy) day, one panel produces 0.5-1.5A of current ... so I have a totally bad 15A and the rest will be raised by the regulator ... and a lighter bad day with 30A and the rest will raise regulator. So there is electricity for inclement weather.
    Also, most of my panels look at the sky at an angle of perhaps 7° and capture diffuse light ... here the poly panels are excellent. South 35° I only have 6 panels facing ... that's how I came up with it.

    As for the el-car, mine would consist of 6-7 36V panels and a 36V/1200W heater directly connected to the panels. For me, such an el-car works without an el-car and as you can see, I have 65°C set on the thermostat in the boiler and on a cloudy day that's what I have in it. Why do I need boosters or el-cars ... for all this, the panels have to earn ... and if it smokes like from a phase switch, again ... money ... when will you earn?
    I have not yet said the last word in my construction ... there are still new thoughts, observations and it will happen :)
  • Helpful post
    #37 19847904
    Read76Write
    Level 6  
    Hello dear group members,
    I have a question for rademenes 787.
    Is the N output of the ESB finally grounded? I.e. the TN-CS installation with N and Pe separation in the main one goes to the circuits?
    Do they work in this configuration?
    It's kind of interesting because:
    1. ESB series inverters do not have galvanic isolation, therefore there is no PE output on the AC output link.
    2. The lack of galvanic isolation means that with a correct system (no damage) everything can work, but if:
    a. you have grounded pv modules and the insulation of the panels is punctured, the inverter may catch fire
    b. you do not have a grounded pv installation, in the absence of galvanic isolation, in my opinion N at the output of the inverter may "float" (there may be differences in potential in relation to the ground), so I am very interested in whether you have grounded N from the ESB output??

    Thank you in advance for your answer.

    ps
    galvanically isolated inverters from the same manufacturer appeared. HSB series
  • Helpful post
    #38 19848114
    rokbok
    Level 38  
    Read76Write wrote:
    a. you have grounded pv modules and the insulation of the panels is punctured, the inverter may catch fire


    This is not the case with the grounding of the panels, the panels themselves, i.e. their housing/frame and the structure on which the panels are placed, can be grounded, only solar wires must not be grounded, neither plus nor minus in the absence of galvanic isolation, as stated in the "Safety Instructions" " in the Off Grid ESB inverter manual, point 11, quote. The inverter does not have galvanic isolation. Do not ground the power cables of the PV installation, it may damage the device."
    After that, the ESB is additionally connected to the ground using a dedicated screw on the housing.
  • #39 19849796
    Read76Write
    Level 6  
    It's a bit about that and a bit not.
    Fact:
    1. The ESB has no galvanic isolation
    2. ESB has no constant phase output!!!
    ...which makes the whole project very dangerous. Plugging into the inverter installation in this way may result in serious consequences.
  • #40 19855596
    stlis
    Level 2  
    Hello and welcome to the topic

    I'm thinking about connecting an off-grid ESB inverter in SUB mode, i.e. supporting energy from panels with energy from the power grid.
    So my question is, do I need to report this?
    Such inverters are supposed to be Off-Grid, but the support is directly on the AC line.
    What if the support works, because 1kW is flowing from the PV and 0.5 kW is selected from the grid and the production from PV will increase to 3.0 kW? Will overproduction go to ZE?
    And what, for example, when the support works and there is no voltage from the ZE?

    How to connect the OFF-GRID 1-F inverter in a 3-P installation with a circuit by
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  • #41 20093464
    przemom42
    Level 4  
    When there is no voltage from the ZE, as you have batteries or the sun, the ESB will power the house. After all, you connect the ESB right after the main switch, of course, through the protection, and from the ESB it goes to the home installation (you can imagine it as a serial connection. If there is no voltage, you power the house like with UPS and that's it. The disconnection is in the inverter. Grounding is provided separately from the ground (not with PENA), i.e. you have to make PE yourself and do not connect PENA with ZE with N behind the inverter. You are making a kind of TN-S network in one word. There are normally RCD protections behind the inverter, etc. So the topic seems to be quite safe. Unless I don't understand what my colleague wants exactly, it seems that the instructions say quite precisely about powering the house with ESB inverters.

    By the way, I have a question, is it possible to unearth the PV modules, i.e. remove the plate that bites into these modules? and do you need to insulate the biting place of this grounding pad with some tape?

    Regards
  • #42 20108698
    rademenes787
    Level 6  
    Read76Write wrote:
    Hello dear group members,
    I have a question for rademenes 787.
    Is the N output of the ESB finally grounded? - YES, i.e. it is connected in the switchgear with the PE cable at the meter, so "as if"
    I.e. the TN-CS installation with N and Pe separation in the main one goes to the circuits? - Exactly as written above
    Do they work in this configuration?
    It's kind of interesting because:
    1. ESB series inverters do not have galvanic isolation, therefore there is no PE output on the AC output link. - there isn't. But my ground connected to N on the board goes to a pin in the ground anyway for potential equalization
    2. The lack of galvanic isolation means that with a correct system (no damage) everything can work, but if:
    a. you have grounded pv modules and the insulation of the panels will be punctured, the inverter may catch fire - well, I guess there's nothing more I can do about it. I will now be using this installation as a UPS in the event of a power outage. I recently joined ON-GRID
    b. you do not have a grounded pv installation, in the absence of galvanic isolation, in my opinion N at the output of the inverter may "float" (there may be differences in potential in relation to the ground), so I am very interested in whether you have grounded N from the ESB output?? - yes

    Thank you in advance for your answer.

    ps
    galvanically isolated inverters from the same manufacturer appeared. HSB series
  • #43 20108699
    rademenes787
    Level 6  
    Read76Write wrote:
    Hello dear group members,
    I have a question for rademenes 787.
    Is the N output of the ESB finally grounded? - YES, i.e. it is connected in the switchgear with the PE cable at the meter, so "as if"
    I.e. the TN-CS installation with N and Pe separation in the main one goes to the circuits? - Exactly as written above
    Do they work in this configuration?
    It's kind of interesting because:
    1. ESB series inverters do not have galvanic isolation, therefore there is no PE output on the AC output link. - there isn't. But my ground connected to N on the board goes to a pin in the ground anyway for potential equalization
    2. The lack of galvanic isolation means that with a correct system (no damage) everything can work, but if:
    a. you have grounded pv modules and the insulation of the panels will be punctured, the inverter may get burned - well, I guess there's nothing more I can do about it. I will now be using this installation as a UPS in the event of a power outage. I recently joined ON-GRID
    b. you do not have a grounded pv installation, in the absence of galvanic isolation, in my opinion N at the output of the inverter may "float" (there may be differences in potential in relation to the ground), so I am very interested in whether you have grounded N from the ESB output?? - yes

    Thank you in advance for your answer.

    ps
    galvanically isolated inverters from the same manufacturer appeared. HSB series


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Topic summary

The discussion revolves around connecting the AZO Digital ESB-6kW-24V inverter in a 3-phase installation while addressing concerns about its capacity to handle high loads, particularly in a kitchen drawing 4 kW. Users share their experiences with hybrid and off-grid systems, emphasizing the importance of proper grounding and circuit separation to avoid overloads and ensure safety. The conversation highlights the need for careful configuration of the inverter's output connections, particularly regarding the neutral (N) and protective earth (PE) connections. Various battery options and their capacities are discussed, along with the implications of using different inverter brands and models. Users express concerns about the profitability of off-grid systems compared to hybrid setups and share insights on optimizing energy production and consumption.
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