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Heat Pump Protection: 13kW Emergency Power Supply & Generator for Outage - Types & Suggestions

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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • #31 20169507
    SNCF
    Level 10  
    I'm refreshing the topic.
    I would like to power a house with a heat pump from a power generator in an emergency.
    I am 99% sure that there will be shutdowns THIS winter 2022/23.
    My friend, a teacher at school, already has guidelines that they go remote when the heating goes down etc.
    The wife in the office has even taken the kettle.

    I wanted an aggregate that would turn on and the whole house works like from Tauron without worrying about power, i.e. Fogo 20kW
    it was even suggested in this thread but now there are huge gaps in everything
    there isn't and won't be for the next at least half a year, there are some no-names left.
    That's why, barely, almost fighting for the last pieces, I bought this one:
    https://dpp-sklep.pl/pl/p/Agregat-pradotworczy-diesel-DAEWOO-DDAE-11000DSE-3/168
    It stinks horribly! terrible noise! (though supposedly silent) and it is too little power to "live" freely and not limit yourself.
    But I think to myself, well, I can wait with the washing or dishwasher, as long as the heating of the house and water, TV and lighting work in an emergency.

    I connected it to the house as a test (in ZK behind the meter) and all resistance loads work fine, the installation with emergency power supply with a central 3kW UPS also switches to work "supposedly from the network", etc.
    But the highlight of the program, i.e. the Viessmann Vitocal 343 heat pump, shows error C1
    it means "wrong phase sequence or phase unbalance"
    I checked all 6 phase sequence combinations and it still shows.
    The heat pump has a thermal power of ~10kW, but it takes ~1.8kW to ~2.5kW from the network as it heats the floor for 3-phase hot water (I have a separate accurate meter permanently attached to it) and the rest from the lower source. It also has a "soft" start system.
    Power should be enough, but I don't even have a way to check because the electronics of the heat pump works, circulation pumps work, etc
    but it shows that the compressor will not turn on.
    Isn't a simple AVR built into such a generator enough for such equipment?
    Regards
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  • #32 20169538
    Janusz_kk
    Level 39  
    SNCF wrote:
    But the highlight of the program, i.e. the Viessmann Vitocal 343 heat pump, shows error C1
    it means "wrong phase sequence or phase unbalance"

    Well, call the supplier or service what this error means, explain that you are powering the generator and it is supposed to work with it, it does not do favors, let them help you.
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  • #33 20169560
    SNCF
    Level 10  
    Janusz_kk wrote:
    SNCF wrote:
    But the highlight of the program, i.e. the Viessmann Vitocal 343 heat pump, shows error C1
    it means "wrong phase sequence or phase unbalance"

    Well, call the supplier or service what this error means, explain that you are powering the generator and it is supposed to work with it, it does not do favors, let them help you.


    My heat pump was one of the first in Poland (everyone told me it wouldn't work) it's almost 20 years old and nobody in corporate - Viessmann won't even look at me.
    The mains works properly, so there is something in this current from the generator that does not suit it.
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  • #34 20169583
    Janusz_kk
    Level 39  
    SNCF wrote:
    The mains works properly, so there is something in this current from the generator that does not suit it.

    Not electricity, but voltage, I thought you had an inverter generator and you have a regular one, you can see the pump electronics does not allow such voltage changes.
  • #35 20169592
    SNCF
    Level 10  
    Janusz_kk wrote:
    SNCF wrote:
    The mains works properly, so there is something in this current from the generator that does not suit it.

    Not electricity, but voltage, I thought you had an inverter generator and you have a regular one, you can see the pump electronics does not allow such voltage changes.


    Inverters from what I looked at are small 1-phase

    Such a Polish Fogo 20kVA that I wanted gasoline is inverter?
    https://www.fogo.pl/petrol-generators-50-hz/t...va/39-pl/trojfazowe-do-19-5-kva/222-fv-20000- cra

    Are there any systems to improve the voltage parameters from a 3-phase generator that supposedly has AVR?
  • #36 20169802
    kris8888
    Level 39  
    Your pump has an electronic phase sequence and unbalance sensor where you can set the percentage of voltage deviation and the percentage of unbalance. It is factory set to 15%. You can change this to some extent. Apparently, the generator is producing a voltage outside the set tolerance. Here you have the manual service for this pump: https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic2368529.html

    Find the section on the phase unbalance sensor, determine which of the two types of sensors you have installed and try to change its settings
    But first, check what voltages are on individual phases from the generator in a no-load situation and with unbalanced load on the generator (for example, only heat pump electronics and circulation pumps). It is possible that the AVR regulator does not fully cope with maintaining proper phase symmetry.
    Of course, even if the compressor starts after changing the sensor settings, check if the compressor motor reaches the right power (the pressure of the refrigerant on the high side of the compressor increases at the right time) and if it does not heat up excessively.
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  • #37 20170009
    SNCF
    Level 10  
    kris8888 wrote:
    Your pump has an electronic phase sequence and unbalance sensor where you can set the percentage of voltage deviation and the percentage of unbalance. It is factory set to 15%. You can change this to some extent. Apparently, the generator is producing a voltage outside the set tolerance. Here you have the manual service for this pump: https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic2368529.html

    Find the section on the phase unbalance sensor, determine which of the two types of sensors you have installed and try to change its settings. But first, check what voltages are on individual phases from the generator in a no-load situation and with unbalanced load on the generator (for example, only heat pump electronics and circulation pumps). It is possible that the AVR regulator does not fully cope with maintaining proper phase symmetry. Of course, even if the compressor starts after changing the sensor settings, check if the compressor motor reaches the right power (the pressure of the refrigerant on the high side of the compressor increases at the right time) and if it does not heat up excessively.


    Thank you for your professional help, I have this manual and I know it. After many hits with the heat pump, boreholes, etc. I am afraid to change anything in Viessmann because any damage to it = PLN 10,000 for "good morning" in this company, a small board with 10 varistors costs 300 Euro ... man-hour PLN 750 net, and the factory deviation tensions by 15% is already a lot. The heat pump works from the mains, i.e. it is operational, and the aggregate provides lame voltage and probably thanks to the sensors it saved the compressor from failure. If you can't add a better AVR to this unit, I won't be messing with it more, it turns out that it's a "concrete mixer" equipment, even though it has House Network ATS blabla stickers. I'll give it back and buy another one, the only question is what to buy? which has good parameters, is the quietest possible, the best power is 12-15kW. Thank you
  • #38 20188794
    gustdelf
    Level 11  
    To my friend who wrote that there will be a 99% shutdown and the teacher has guidelines that they will go to remote, I would like to know these guidelines because I am very interested in remote without electricity. Kettles in offices should have been taken away a long time ago and catering machines should be set up, sometimes I have the impression that brewing coffee is their only job.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around protecting a 13kW heat pump and additional appliances from power outages, particularly during winter. Users suggest various solutions, including the use of generators. It is noted that a generator with a capacity of 5-7kW may suffice for powering the heat pump, as its actual power consumption is lower than its heating capacity. Concerns are raised about the quality of power from generators affecting the heat pump's electronics, emphasizing the need for generators with Automatic Voltage Regulation (AVR). Some participants recommend considering alternative heating methods, such as wood-burning stoves, to prevent freezing in case of prolonged outages. The conversation also touches on the importance of ensuring continuous circulation of water in the heating system to avoid freezing.
Summary generated by the language model.
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