How do I connect motion detectors and reed switches to Satel and Home Assistant?

Question

Hello, Can someone give me some advice on how I can connect motion detectors and reed switches to two receivers? The idea is that in my new house I plan to have an alarm installation (probably on Satel devices) and a smart home installation independent of the alarm, based on a home assistant....

juan cabrillo · Accepted Answer

Well, the number of available outputs of the control panel and the number of HA inputs you need rather limits the choice to Integra (Integra 32 has the possibility to support up to 32 outputs on the control panel board and in expansion modules, the same for Integra 64 - up to 64 outputs), maybe to Ropam's NeoGSM-IP-64, where there are up to 40 outputs (but Satel is much better described here on the forum :-)

).
Of course the outputs can work, as digital.

juan cabrillo · Accepted Answer

There is no philosophy in connecting the low current outputs of the control panel to the HA inputs, you connect like any OC output - via a 1k to 2k2 resistor to the HA supply voltage. If the control panel is programmed properly, the active state is ground (of course, this does not necessarily have to be the case, it can be voltage). No intermediate modules are needed. See topic

nowypn · Answer

Hello
I don't know about home assistant but I know a little bit about satel and one of the possible options is to transfer the status of a satellite input to the output of the control panel - you haven't written which control panel you are thinking about and how many sensors (detectors, reed switches) you are going to use. In any case, satellite control panels can be expanded to 256 inputs and you can transfer the status of each input to 256 outputs (hypothetically, you still need to handle alarm signalling etc). The output of the Satel can be the signal source for the home assistant.
Regards

juan cabrillo · Answer

You definitely need to power the detectors from the control panel - the control panel has to be alert even when the mains power is out (it has its own buffer power supply/battery backup).
You only connect the detectors to one system - the control panel. From the control panel, you either output signals to the HA either physically (it is best to use dedicated output modules or relay output modules, if galvanic separation of the two systems is necessary, or OC output modules, if the active status is to be e.g. shorted to ground. And such outputs should be properly programmed), or virtually (API) - there are users in the alarm department who successfully test such applications.
What kind of control panel do you want?

nowypn · Answer

From what I have been able to read about the home assistant solution, it integrates the Satel Integra control panel via the ETHM-1 plus module by, among other things, reading the status of the control panel outputs. Therefore, it should be assumed that the integration will be able to see the statuses of the Integra control panel's virtual outputs and thus you will not need to install INT-O(output module) modules. If this information is confirmed, you program the alarm system so that it displays the sensor signals you need on its outputs, and in the home assistant you create automation using the integration and the possibility of using signals on control panel outputs.

jdukat · Answer

>>21145453 .

This is exactly what I was thinking of doing as you write i.e. detectors powered from and connected to the control panel. I don't have an idea of the hardware possibilities of the outputs from the control panel (I haven't chosen a specific model yet), ideally the signal to the HA could be given as a digital input and not an analogue one.
Do I need to pay attention to anything in particular when choosing a control panel, or will any one be better than others in this respect?

The option of reading the API is what I wrote as point B above, certainly for consideration, only that I do not have the opportunity now to test it, hence my concern, and if I need to lay some additional cables then now I have time to do it

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Added after 1 [minutes]: .

>>21145450 .
This will be a house installation, so the number of detectors is probably up to a dozen, reed switches similarly.

jdukat · Answer

>>21146035 .
Thanks, you've confirmed what I thought at the very beginning that this is how it can be done. Only I still don't know how to electrically connect it. I was thinking of using the KC868-A16 to read the inputs, but for the example of this diagram (digital inputs D01-D16) I assume that the digital output of the panel will go into the digital input Dxx, but what about the GDN?

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Or is it better, as you wrote above, to galvanically isolate the alarm and home assistant installation from each other via some additional module? I'm keen for a robust solution rather than micro savings in installation costs.

jdukat · Answer

>>21146556 .
This post what you have linked has brightened me up a lot, but unfortunately my electronics knowledge is still failing.
From this post I understand that the programmed output from the control panel simply shorts to ground.
In that diagram I posted above, the digital inputs of the Kc868 also work simply by shorting to ground.
So directly connecting the output of the control panel to the input of the KC868 would cause the two devices to short to ground - probably not a good idea....
In contrast, in such a circuit (image from the linked post):
How do I connect motion detectors and reed switches to Satel and Home Assistant?

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If I connect point A to the input of the KC868, I will have a current from the 12v supply at the input, even if limited by a resistor, still a current that will go nowhere? This also seems risky to me.... It looks like it might work if I connect A to an analogue input rather than digital?

juan cabrillo · Answer

If you are unsure of the connection with the power supply through the resistor then don't connect it. The HA control panel should be able to cope with this, just two small comments:
- connecting the power supply removes the high impedance condition of the output, which can have an effect on the generation of interference, in extreme cases damaging the ports of both devices;
- there are some devices which react not to "giving ground" but to "change of signal polarity at the input" and without power supply they simply do not work. But you can check this yourself empirically in your system during installation.

jdukat · Answer

>>21147571 .
Ok, now you've scared me a bit. OK, in that case I guess I'll park the subject of "physical" connection on the cables, and try a software solution to this by integrating Integra with Home Assistant to start with. If that doesn't work, I'll go back to sculpting on the cables and explore the subject further. I'll let you know in a couple of months when I get the electricity hooked up on site and can start installing systems

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juan cabrillo · Answer

Don't crack. It would have to be extremely adverse conditions plus potential errors in assembly. Nevertheless, you need to keep all this in the back of your mind and bear it in mind.

jdukat · Answer

>>21147632 .
OK, but I'm a bit confused at the moment - which option seems to make the most sense, and does what I wrote in my previous post of 15.55 make sense? Because now I really don't know if I should consider the option with the power supply, or shorting the output of the control panel directly to the input of the kc868 (and then what about the ground connection from the kc868 - ignore it, or what?)
I'm a bit afraid to experiment with the hardware because I don't know enough about electronics to judge whether a solution that temporarily seems to work in the long term won't cause damage.

Bart887 · Answer

Hi.
I also had a similar dilemma and ended up reading I/O via ETHM-1 plus from the PBX (default assumption that Satel always works). Integration https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/satel_integra/ while with HA I put out bulk signals connected directly from the Satel PBX inputs. The intermediary is Kincony A16 HA -> Kincony A16 -> IO of the Satel PBX. Signals from HA to Satel are e.g. from Zigbee sensors (flood sensor or Zigbee opening sensor). This seems to me the most sensible way to do it. The two systems are somewhat independent with priority on the control panel.

Edt. One more step by step link
https://ai-speaker.discourse.group/t/integracja-z-satel-ai-speaker-home-assistant/102/7

xury · Answer

There is absolutely no point in physically connecting any Satel Integra control panel sensors to the HA. This is what integration via the ETHM-1 Plus is for and it works superbly.
Any delays are not the fault of the control panel and the ETHM-1 itself, but the very nature of the alarm sensors, which analyse the event for false alarms before activating motion detection. This can even be seen when the motion detection LED is activated.
I myself use Satel's integration with HA. Not the official one, admittedly, but the one available in HACS, which allows temperature readings.

How do I connect motion detectors and reed switches to Satel and Home Assistant?

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