CT Quadriplegic needs help with modified van electronic issues

 

Hello Engineers, engineering students and anyone else whom might be willing to help. Please excuse my intrusion. My name is Wayne and am quadriplegic and owner of a highly modified 1991 Ford e150 with about 78,000 miles on it. The van has an electrical/electronic issue that needs to be solved and repaired. The van has been modified in part using Electronic Mobility Corporation equipment. The van in the past 6 months has gone through 4 starters, and 2 solenoids. I think the problem may be the tactile switch for the "start" push button, or a relay for it, or could the batteries have too many amps?

One day I went to start the van and it would not start. Had it towed to a shop for repairs. Got it back 1 starter, minor rear brake and exhaust repair and $850 later. That sum also covered the cost to replace a roller chain in the modified steering that the tow truck driver broke. 

Not long after I suspected a charging issue. Brought the van back to the same shop, 45 minutes of labor, 1 alternator, 1 serpentine belt, and $480 later I was back on the road. This did not solve all the charging problems so I bought 3 new batteries. For the isolated auxiliary backup battery I went with a standard lead acid starting/deep cycle. For the main starting battery, to help support all of the electronics, I went with an Optima yellow top. There is also a battery in parallel with the starting battery in the back cabin of the van for my cb radio, small 12v fan, phone chargers, etc:. Having read that it is best to use two of the same type, size, and age batteries for parallel applications, and also not having to have concerns over sulfuric acid vapors in the cabin, I put an Optima yellow top in the back. 

All was good... for about two weeks. I was out visiting my mother when I started the van and the starter remained engaged, and the engine's RPM's were higher than normal. I turned the ignition and system off, but the starter would not stop engaging nor did the engine stop running. I turned the ignition back on and the engine's RPM's picked back up. Again I turned the ignition and system off, and again the starter stayed engaged and the engine continued to run. So my sister's husband came out to disconnect the battery. Sent the van to a shop closer to van location where they said the first shop put in a cheap starter. They put in a Ford reman, $200 (they cut me a break).

I took the van off the lot, stopped at the bank, then my mother's. Went to leave my mother's when I started the van and again the starter remained engaged and the engine continued to run. Again I turned the ignition and system off, and again the starter stayed engaged and the engine continued to run. So my sister's husband again came out to disconnect the battery, but not before the wiring by the battery caught on fire. 

Sent the van to same shop as I previously had where they replaced the solenoid and replaced wiring in the engine compartment. They also replaced the wires going to the battery in the back with heavier gauge wire than the 8 AWG that was there. $980 latter, I took the van off the lot. 

From the lot I drove the van to the bank, to my mothers house, and then to the nursing home in which I reside. The next day when I went to leave I started the van but again, the starter remained engaged, though this time when I depressed the ignition button the engine stopped running, but the starter did not. There was no one there to disconnect the battery so starter continued to engage until it burned itself and the solenoid out.

A cousin put in a new solenoid, that's as far as he got. Sent the van to the local Ford dealership, informing them of recent events, asked them to test from solenoid back to ignition, (they did not),also do a starter draw and voltage drop test. They put in a new reman starter, performed an amp draw test, said amp draw was within specs. $480 latter I took the van off the lot.

Went to my mothers, from there went back to the nursing home. The next day, on my way to my mothers, I stopped at the mall which is on the way. Went to leave which I reside. The next day when I went to leave I started the van but again, the starter remained engaged, I depressed the ignition button the engine stopped running, but the starter did not. There was a gentleman heading in to the mall who looked capable, I asked him to disconnect the battery, and he was kind enough to do so. It was a Sunday so I had the van towed back to the Ford dealer. When the driver showed up for the tow, he reconnected the battery and the starter immediately engaged. I asked to disconnect the battery, press the ignition and starter switches a couple of times and reconnect the battery. He did, and the starter was no longer engaging. He was able to start the van to get it on the flatbed. 

Called the Ford dealer on Monday, they said that they could not do anything for me, so I had the van towed too my mothers house where it remains. So far between repairs, towing, and having to pay for a chair car "ambulance back to the nursing home when stranded, this ordeal has cost over $3,700, and the nursing home takes all but a $60 stipend from my social security income. The replacement cost of a new modified van is around the $120,000 mark, so that's out of the question. If there is anyone out there that thinks they can help get the van running properly, please contact me. It is no fun spending day and night everyday in a nursing home.

Thank you in advance and regards,

Wayne

Wayneusa(_at_)yahoo.com

 

It sounds like there is an electronic leak somewhere. I hope there isn't a wire touching a metal piece and is dissipating the amperage from the battery.

I hope your motor is fuel injected, since this can become a major hazard with a carbureted motor.

You have an old van, so when replacing parts, so the mechanics will replace parts that are OEM (original equipment manufacturer), these parts have an amperage rating and will fail with time since the amps will be doubled (batteries in parallel).

The amperage coming from the batteries that are wired in parallel maybe too much for the parts to handle, these parts are rated for an amperage range, and if there is a difference the part will eventually fail. Too much voltage (batteries in series) will result in failing parts as well.

Your best option, other than a new van, is to find a way to control the amperage, via a switch, or a Variable DC Power supply. When the van is driving, it does not need that much power, the most power is required when the van starts.

I pray that you get what you need.

I hope this helps.

Good luck, and God bless!

Sorry Michael, but your comment regarding putting batteries in parallel does not increase the current drawn by devices on the batteries, that is determined by the resistance of the devices, they only draw what they need.
Wayne, it seems to me that you have come up against the problem that none of the people that have done the work understand how to diagnose a problem, all they know is how to change parts. You are going to have to ask around, and it might take quite a bit of work, to find a very good auto electrician. It is almost impossible without more details to give any sound advice on what the problem might be. I wish you well,
cheers,
Richard

One other comment, I take it you have a conventional automotive starting battery on the starter motor, and not a deep cycle. Deep cycle batteries are not likely to provide enough current and can be damaged by the very large current demanded by a starter motor. Some batteries are dual purpose, but I would stick with the Ford recommended battery in this case. Additionally, what sort of running are you doing, with all of those batteries, the alternator may be struggling to charge them all if you are not on the road regularly.
Any relays in the starter system should certainly be checked, contacts can be damaged over time, and can stick, but I would have thought that had been checked,
cheers,
Richard

Michael, thank you for taking the time to respond. Yes the motor is fuel injected, and would like to isolate the back battery, for now I'll likely keep it disconnected, if I ever get someone to help me get it back on the road.

Best regards

Richard, Thank you for your input. The starting battery is an optima yellow top, which according to their website is a true dual purpose battery with very low internal resistance. With 750 cca , when the van starts, it does so with no hesitation whatsoever. There is a splitter going to the lighter socket. I run a dash cam off of it, and charge my cell phone with it.

The passenger side auxiliary battery is completely isolated, and has no drain on it at all. The only time it is used is when the main starting battery fails for some reason like when the starter runs until it burns up, Ipull a momentary toggle switch to start the van.

The battery in the back which is also an Optima yellow top , has a CB radio connected to it, which has not been used in a couple of years due to no antenna. Only thing that has been used for in the last few months leading up to this problem and earlier, has been 5v devices. The small 12 V fan attached to it has not been used since last summer and then only used on two or three occasions for 10 or 15 minutes at a time, and then only two or three times, and that was when the old batteries were still in the van. The relay "solenoid" under the hood by the battery is the only solenoid or relay that's been replaced or tested. I cannot get anyone to test or check the momentary start pushbutton or its associated relay, assuming it has one.

Best regards, Wayne

WayneSorry for a late reply, I have only just joined this forum. I'm sorry to read about your problems and I too think that you need someone to diagnose the root cause rather than just replace what they think is wrong.That can and probably will be expensive for an auto-electrician.However if you are still in need of help I would suggest you get in touch with your local college(s) etc and see if they would look kindly on assisting you. There you will find people studying mechanical / electrical / electronic / automotive engineering and may jump at the chance for practical experience. Once they graduate it would look good on their CV to have assisted in a very worthy cause. Maybe there are Electronics Clubs nearby? They too would probably assist.I hope this is of help.
Best regards