Huawei SUN2000-10KTL inverter or Fronius Symo 10.0-3-M which one to choose?

And does someone say the price for the labor? I have never encountered anything like this, the offer is always complete.

Lisciasty wrote:

And does someone say the price for the labor? I have never encountered anything like this, the offer is always complete.

And some even serve it themselves, but unfortunately it is not a standard, although you can always ask for it ...

przemek_a1 wrote:

Lisciasty wrote:

Therefore, the higher the power, the cheaper the kilowatt.

Well, a kilowatt is cheaper but why the labor itself is more expensive with cheaper installations ..? After all, there are fewer robots if there are fewer of these panels to be installed, right?

And if you had a flooring company, you would like to make spouts in individual rooms in 10 apartments, 30 km away from each other, or would you prefer to make a spout, e.g. in a 1000m2 sports hall for a week

noja102 wrote:

przemek_a1 wrote:

Lisciasty wrote:

Therefore, the higher the power, the cheaper the kilowatt.

Well, a kilowatt is cheaper but why the labor itself is more expensive with cheaper installations ..? After all, there are fewer robots if there are fewer of these panels to be installed, right?

And if you had a flooring company, you would like to make spouts in individual rooms in 10 apartments, 30 km away from each other, or would you prefer to make a spout, e.g. in a 1000m2 sports hall for a week

You summed it up beautifully, come on, some people will not understand anyway because everyone in PL would like to earn a lot, but pay for the service, they would like little

noja102 wrote:

przemek_a1 wrote:

Lisciasty wrote:

Therefore, the higher the power, the cheaper the kilowatt.

Well, a kilowatt is cheaper but why the labor itself is more expensive with cheaper installations ..? After all, there are fewer robots if there are fewer of these panels to be installed, right?

And if you had a flooring company, you would like to make spouts in individual rooms in 10 apartments, 30 km away from each other, or would you prefer to make a spout, e.g. in a 1000m2 sports hall for a week

Well, it is known that the point of view depends on the point of sitting, but here is a slight exaggeration with this labor ... So much so that I wonder if I should not assume it myself ... I counted that even with 23% VAT it would come out a lot cheaper than if I outsource it to any company because companies inflate all prices, not just for labor ...

Added after 22 [minutes]:

Leon444 wrote:

some will not understand

Some probably do - I have my own company, so I try to be in the middle when I am a consumer, but here is a bit of a bite ...
Take a look, for example, here: (they say they write about subsidies and it turns out that, however, about where these prices come from ...)
http://www.forumbudowlane.pl/kolekty-sloneczne/ostrzezenie-przed-programem-prosument-t56879

How too expensive it is, assemble it yourself. Personally, I also did this with the first part of my installation (the first 5kW on 20 modules). Very informative process:]
How to count how much time it took and the costs of helpers and the fact that the equipment bought without discounts and at 23% VAT is especially cheaper than the assembly by the company.
But what a man learned and acquired was his

And you see "Because we only have what we do for free" and if you can do something yourself, build a PV installation yourself and if you do not know something about what, ask on this forum, we will tell you for free how and what

noja102 wrote:

'' Because we only have for free what we do ourselves "

But I do not want anything for free, but how to calculate so well that companies take everything into their costs and then issue an invoice for 8%, it turns out that the labor costs not PLN 2,500 but 5,000 or better, and this is already overkill .. .
Because what - because subsidy ..? The subsidy was supposed to be for the investor, not for the assembling company, and meanwhile, the reality is completely different and some people do not even notice it, just like a grain ...

This is a copy of an email in response to a cheeky offer ... ;-p
"Hello
So in the case of the first option (3 kWp) it is PLN 19,466 gross with 8% VAT ... Ok, let's count ...

The panels cost approx. PLN 509 per unit gross, 23% VAT
https://fotoogniwa-sklep.pl/pl/p/Panel-fotowoltaiczny-Luxor-Solar-Eco-Line-275W/1768
(and this with 23% VAT, of which you also have a profit because you take them into costs (as well as all other components ...) and then you perform the service only for 8% VAT. (so here you already have 15% of the price of the panels in your pocket ) but even counting at the "normal" price, it comes out 12x509 PLN or 6018 PLN gross 23% VAT

The same with the inverter ... PLN 4600 gross 23% VAT (15% in dry ...)
https://kotly.com/pl/1142-jednophazowy-falownik-huawei-sun2000-3ktl.html

Holders, cables and plugs about PLN 2600 gross 23% VAT (again you have 15% free ... ;-p):
https://allegro.pl/oferta/system-montazowy-do-paneli-pv-dachowka-ceramiczna-8563060139
https://allegro.pl/oferta/kabel-pirect-solarny-sloneczny-panel-4mm-mc4-50m-8312515729
https://allegro.pl/oferta/zlacze-konektor-garówkao-mc4-solar-panel-bateria-6158465415

Total is PLN 13,218 gross 23% VAT (from the entire amount you have at least 15% cheaper and I suspect that it is better because you know that when you buy in bulk, it is cheaper, and they write "discounts for installers" everywhere)

So...
The labor is over PLN 5,000! and this in the case of counting with gross prices of 23% VAT (and in fact it is over PLN 8,000 for the labor alone!) It is a robbery in broad daylight! ;-p
Best regards"

No, it's called capitalism. If someone pays for it, it means that they think it's worth it. For example, I think that a doctor who takes PLN 300 for 15 minutes of advice, which is usually not worth much, is overdoing it and I stopped going to such doctors. However, the queue for them is always full. A friend who got an offer to make a small bathroom for 40 thousand. After all, he's doing himself, but that bathroom guy has orders for the next year. It is similar with bricklaying, roofing, lawyers and all the rest of the bloodsuckers I don't quite understand your surprise on this point.

Lisciasty wrote:

I don't quite understand your surprise on this point.

This is not a surprise - this is a break ... ;-p
I just don't understand people who are unfamiliar with anything and are thus exploited like little children ...
If one of them used the brain, it would not be so, because then the free market would cut it, and so we have what we have and it's best to do everything ourselves ...

And why don't you bother with people who buy a sofa for 30,000 or a car for 250? After all, this is a rip-off and a rip-off ...
That I will not mention handbags or glasses for 5,000 pieces:]

Lisciasty wrote:

And why don't you bother with people who buy a sofa for 30,000 or a car for 250? After all, this is a rip-off and a rip-off ...
That I will not mention handbags or glasses for 5,000 pieces:]

After all, my statement also concerns them ...
However, with sofas this is not a problem because you can also buy one at a reasonable price, but here it is only about items with assembly ...

I recommend that you ask the assembly team about the wages, the risk of falling from a height, damage to the material due to improper treatment and responsibility for the connection (defective MC4 plug and installation are missing, or maybe even the whole house). A colleague will buy this material from the list, mount it, sign the papers and take all responsibility. And when everything is installed, he will pay himself for the service of these 2500 and we will see if he is satisfied

noja102 wrote:

the risk of falling from a height, material damage due to inappropriate handling and responsibility for connection

This is what every self-respecting company has ...

noja102 wrote:

faulty MC4 plug and no installation, maybe even the whole house

And that's what I have insurance for ...

The one for the hu..wa plug without an approval and certificate, the one from the link pays you compensation, because the expert will not look at the ash after the plug, but will ask for papers from her. The fewer there are, the better. But of course, build your own installation. Buddy, if you ask something, we will help and I do not say it maliciously, because satisfaction and experience are priceless
https://allegro.pl/oferta/amphenol-zlacze-mc4-solar-wodeszczne-45a-1-5kv-8035944911
https://pl.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&i..._id=AS_20191112135411&SearchText=mc4+conector

It's as simple as making scrambled eggs. You collect offers from several companies (not necessarily local ones), choose the best one, judge whether the price fits or not, and you either do or not.
Or you do it yourself. Well, it can't be easier

noja102 wrote:

The one for the hu..wa plug without approval and certificate pays you compensation with the link

"The fittings have TUV and ETL certificates and the degree of protection IP67, which guarantees the highest quality, durability and reliability." What else do you require from them ..? ;-p
Yes, BTW, each panel has its plugs (probably also of different quality - depending on the quality of the panel itself) I only need two to connect to the panels and two to connect to the inverter so I can buy even gold-plated because only 4 of them will come out. . ;-p (the ones at the auction were just an example for the installation company ...)

Added after 33 [seconds]:

Lisciasty wrote:

It's as simple as making scrambled eggs. You collect offers from several companies (not necessarily local ones), choose the best one, judge whether the price fits or not, and you either do or not.
Or you do it yourself. Well, it can't be easier

That's what I was going to do ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8xzq-fNGWE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdqyYPl2kXA
Not that I was scared, but Grandpa used to say that "With the flow .......... no jokes "if you are going to be assembled by a team, you need to make sure you have them, especially if they speak Ukrainian, that's what happened now. If the switchboard is IP65, all the cables are through the glands and 1 gland for 1 cable, not a conduit with wires in the drilled hole ( because this is some recent fashion for it)

Moderated By Krzysztof Reszka:

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Lisciasty wrote:

No, it's called capitalism. If someone pays for it, it means that they think it's worth it. For example, I think that a doctor who takes PLN 300 for 15 minutes of advice, which is usually not worth much, is overdoing it and I stopped going to such doctors. However, the queue for them is always full. A friend who got an offer to make a small bathroom for 40 thousand. After all, he's doing himself, but that bathroom guy has orders for the next year. It is similar with bricklaying, roofing, lawyers and all the rest of the bloodsuckers I don't quite understand your surprise on this point.

It just so happens that I was building a house and I know that when good professionals have a lot of work [and good professionals always have such work] and someone tries to get them to do the work for him, then they give a quote with a price of x2 on the basis that if a loser will accept it they will delay another job and do it to him, and if not, not - and that's how it has been working for years, hence the different prices on the market.

It used to piss me off, but if you look at it from the side, when you have too many orders and you are not making yourself, then you raise prices to earn on your experience and quality of work, on the other hand, when you enter some industry at the beginning you fight with the price and maybe it will take your job a bit longer because you are actually learning and you will earn less, but with time when you are better, it is time to earn more.

As a customer, you also have a choice - take a cheap one that will gain experience with you or an expensive one who has done it hundreds of times and will do it twice without mistakes because he has already corrected mistakes himself and others within hundreds of cases he has processed.
Interestingly, except for the case when someone does not have time and overestimates the valuation of the dunk, which I wrote about at the beginning, usually the better ones turn out to be cheaper because he knows that he will do it quickly and well and he will not screw up anything [and this is the most annoying because many have already worked with mechanics who, while repairing one, screwed up the other, and knowing the stuff I am aware of it, although sometimes it came out only after time].

The most important thing is to find a service that is adequate to the price, i.e. how cheap it should at least be careful and try, and how expensive it is supposed to be great and know what it is - unfortunately, there is a lottery in life, like in "Usterka", and here it is worth immediately give up the service of a "specialist" who goes to work without equipment or takes to work like a hedgehog dog.
On this principle, I have avoided problems several times in my life by resigning from a poor car mechanic or a builder.

I propose Mr. Przemek_a1 to set up a business and see how much of these 3,000 earnings will remain after deducting ZUS, ZUS employees, running costs of the company, purchase of tools, a car for tens of thousands, car repairs for hundreds of months, fuel, car operation, insurance , training, accounting services, warranty for two years ... ..
So he informs that he will stay all g. But those who did not have an activity will never understand.

KarolW wrote:

I propose Mr. Przemek_a1 to set up a business and see how much of these 3,000 earnings will remain after deducting his own expenses, employees' expenses, running costs of the company, purchase of tools, car for tens of thousands, car repairs for hundreds of months, fuel, car operation, insurance, training, services accountants, guarantees for two years ... ..
So he informs that he will stay all g. But those who did not have an activity will never understand.

It just so happens that I have my own business, but in a different industry, and it just so happens that the warranty is not a problem because it is the manufacturer who gives it, not me - and this is the case with every new thing, so you don't get hurt. .. ;-p

Didn't drink ...? Hmm, interesting term ... Buddy, if you do not guarantee your actions, sorry ... no comment. Besides, when you issue someone with a service invoice, e.g. for 8% VAT together with the equipment, who buys this equipment, whose cost is it and who is the guarantee for? The customer receives a service invoice. We provide a service guarantee for the service and for the guarantee service of devices for 12 months. In fact, the customer has the right to demand a guarantee from whoever provided him with this device.
Sometimes manufacturers have door to door guarantees, but how do you imagine such a procedure in the case of an inverter or panels? The customer has to disassemble electrical devices himself?
Would you like the company that installed anything for you during the warranty period?
As for the warranty and warranty periods, this is one more issue. Some consider assembly work in buildings as so-called construction work. Look for what the terms of the guarantee / warranty are then.

I give what I do, but only for them ... Not for parts, because I can't be responsible for something that I didn't produce myself, right ...? For what reason should I lose on this ..? The guarantor here is the MANUFACTURER - whether you like it or not! ;-p

And if you do not have the qualifications and knowledge that their manufacturer requires to install devices, who is to make warranty claims for the entirety of your service and equipment purchased in your company, the customer who pays you for the entirety. Pathetic your reasoning is

I don't know because I don't do what I can't do there ... ;-p
This is not my reasoning, it's just the way it is, whether you like it or not ... ;-p

Hi
I am thinking of setting up a 5kW installation with the possibility of later expansion. I was offered 3 sets (2 standard 5kW and one with the possibility of expansion)
1. Afore 5kW + 16pcs Ja Solar 325W inverter for PLN 25300
2. Afore 5kW + 16pcs Sharp (NU-AC310) 310W inverter for the price of PLN 24900
3. Fronius 8.2-3 + 16 pcs Sharp (NU-AC310) 310 W for the price of 28 600 PLN
What do you think are these good prices? I want it to be correct (sometimes investing too much in the best components alone is unprofitable). I am asking for advice on what to look for when guarding the team, what security, etc., should you divide it into two strings or do it on one strings? (the roof of the farm building is a simple gable, 13mx4.5m, there is only a chimney in 1/3 of the roof (installation from the south).
Thanks in advance for your answer

przemko221 wrote:

sometimes it is not profitable to invest too much in the best components themselves

Of course, you do installations for 30 years, so there is no point in investing in good equipment
Regarding Afore, I will only say that two years ago I had this company's inverter at home, after the quality of soldering the elements and the overall aesthetics, how it was all done (I'm talking about the interior) does not bode this equipment for more than 5 years of work, but of course someone will jump out soon that there is a 10-year warranty and stuff, so let me tell you right away I have SolarWorld panels with a 30-year warranty, one broke after 3 years and the company went bankrupt and there is no guarantee.

Leon444 wrote:

one broke after 3 years

Or maybe it can still be repaired by yourself ..?

przemek_a1 wrote:

Leon444 wrote:

one broke after 3 years

Or maybe it can still be repaired by yourself ..?

Probably a diode or a break on some connection because 1/3 of the panel does not work.
But this is just an example of how the long-term guarantees that everyone so praises work.

Leon444 wrote:

przemek_a1 wrote:

Leon444 wrote:

one broke after 3 years

Or maybe it can still be repaired by yourself ..?

Probably a diode or a break on some connection because 1/3 of the panel does not work.
But this is just an example of how the long-term guarantees that everyone so praises work.

I bet on the diode because it is the weakest link here (repair as simple as the sun - you can probably fix it yourself ... )