How to install motion detector controlled lighting in a toilet?

Gentlemen, ladies,
I need your support.

I am renovating a toilet and a bathroom, I would like to introduce lighting automation (something a'la scenarios), but based on „old fashioned” method (automatics, relays) and not on smart systems (I am old school)
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TOILET - Motion detector activated overhead lighting
a. Questions:
i. What kind of detector so that it will not be triggered (not switch on the lighting) by small animals - cats (approx 6kg) and will not be triggered by movement of people/change in light intensity in the hallway when the toilet door is slightly ajar (must be ajar – pet access to the litter tray) - I know definitely not microwave.
ii. what would be a better placement – on the ceiling or on the wall by the sink or other point – what?
iii. won't such a detector turn off the light if someone is sitting still in the toilet? .
iv. Are there any automatic controllers/transmitters/additional day programmers, so that e.g. from 00:00 to 6:00 the aforementioned lighting is switched on by this detector but only at e.g. 30% brightness? What I mean is that it should not dazzle unnecessarily - I do not have the possibility to lead the cables outside the bathroom e.g. to the switchboard in order to install a daily programmer there .
If there is such an automatic/relay/daily programmer, is it possible, even if the light is switched on at night at, for example, 30% brightness, to switch it back to 100% brightness by pressing a button, and when I leave the toilet and return, it will switch back on with this reduced brightness?

BATHROOM – motion detector activated overhead lighting:
a. Three questions overlap with those above so can be left unanswered.
i. Won't such a detector switch off the light if someone doesn't move?
ii. Are there any automatic controllers/transmitters/daily programmers, so that e.g. from 00:00 to 6:00 the above-mentioned lights are switched on by this detector but only at, e.g. 30% brightness? I mean so that it does not dazzle unnecessarily.
iii) If there is such an automatic/relay/daily programmer, can I still switch the light back to 100% brightness by pressing a button, even if the light is switched on at, for example, 30% brightness during the night?

b. Questions to which I do not know the answer:
i. Which would be a better placement in the bathroom – on the ceiling or on the wall at the entrance above the washbasin cabinet or other point – which?
ii. When I use the bathroom the overhead light automatically turns on, in addition I switch on e.g. the light above the mirror or the overhang light above the washbasin cabinet – I would like all the lights to automatically turn off when I leave
iii) When I use the bathroom, the overhead light switches on automatically, but I am planning to have a bath and would like to switch off the overhead light by pressing a button and leave only the overhang light above the wash table switched on, for example. When I leave the bathroom, the lights go out and the default scheme is set again. Here, for example, could I use a timer for the light above the washbasin cabinet and, for example, this light would be on for 10-15 minutes and after a set time „it would come back on” on the movement sensor? The question is what if I wanted to switch on the top light faster (because, for example, the mood scheme I switched on by accident…) . I have no idea how to design this, and I can't count on help from electrical shops…
3. should I even plan for standard light switches in front of one room and the other? E.g.. in case a motion sensor or other component fails?

i. So you are left with a choice of PIR alarm or adjustable sensitivity.
ii. the sensor must 'see' the object and at the same time not see outside the room when the door is opened. So you have to choose its location so that both conditions are met.
iii. Yes it will turn off because it is a sensor with zero intelligence.
iv. It probably will. However, don't ask me what to do it on if it's only going to use standalone devices not managed from a central control system like Domoticz, OpenHAB,HomeAssistant etc. Doing something like this using only some autonomous devices is possible, for me it would be masochism in the extreme. Achieving the same thing on Domoticz using a piece of code in LUA and a single actuator essentially reduces the cost as well as the execution time by a lot.
I can see that you are keen to do something, but don't really want to do it yourself and would like someone to help you. It seems to me, however, that there will not be many people willing to do it.
The rule of thumb on the forum is that you do something yourself and ask what you have a problem with. No one is likely to be able to provide a complete solution for you.

Quote:

I don't have the option of taking the cables outside the bathroom e.g. to the switchboard

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Sorry, are you planning on setting up something like a stationary Christmas tree in the bathroom? How does this relate to the provisions of PN-HD 60364-7-701 'Requirements for special installations or locations - Rooms fitted with a bath or shower'?
It's all very well to have plans to make life more pleasant, but they need to be tailored and trimmed, first and foremost, to safety requirements. So that nobody gets hurt. This is why the installation of all appliances in bathrooms is subject to special requirements. And if you don't have the option of routing cables out of the bathroom, I don't see that happening. And you wouldn't want unsuspecting children left alone in the bathroom to come up with something unusual. And even when they don't...
In Russia, this year alone, there have already been three fatal accidents caused by a phone falling into a bathtub. A phone connected to a Chinese power supply.

xury wrote:

i. So you are left with a choice of alarm PIR or adjustable sensitivity.
ii. the sensor must "see" the object and at the same time not see outside the room when the door is opened. So you have to choose its location to meet both conditions.
iii. Yes it will turn off because it is a sensor with zero intelligence.
iv. It probably will. However, don't ask me what to do it on if it's only going to use standalone devices not managed from a central control system like Domoticz, OpenHAB,HomeAssistant etc. Doing something like this using only some autonomous devices is possible, for me it would be masochism in the extreme. Achieving the same thing on Domoticz using a piece of code in LUA and a single actuator essentially reduces the cost as well as the execution time by a lot.
I can see that you are keen to do something, but don't really want to do it yourself and would like someone to help you. It seems to me, however, that there will not be many people willing to do it.
The rule of thumb on the forum is that you do something yourself and ask what you have a problem with. A complete solution is unlikely to be done for you.

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Thanks a lot for your reply!
That's the kind of comments I was referring to, well maybe after that I don't really want to.
On the contrary - I was originally planning to do something on PIR sensors, a Zamel PCP-04 time relay and a twilight switch with a probe also from Zamel's Exta series - I just didn't know how to put it all together to make it work. Thanks to your comments I started looking for something else.
As for control systems like Domoticz, OpenHAB,HomeAssistant - unfortunately (or unfortunately) I don't want to enter. I have my own - perhaps strange to others - reasons for this, but this is not the place for such a discussion .

retrofood wrote:

Quote:

I don't have the option of taking the cables outside the bathroom e.g. to the switchboard

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Sorry, are you planning on setting up something like a stationary Christmas tree in the bathroom? How does this relate to the provisions of PN-HD 60364-7-701 'Requirements for special installations or locations - Rooms fitted with a bath or shower'?
It's all very well to have plans to make life more pleasant, but they need to be tailored and trimmed, first and foremost, to safety requirements. So that nobody gets hurt. This is why the installation of all appliances in bathrooms is subject to special requirements. And if you don't have the option of routing cables out of the bathroom, I don't see that happening. And you wouldn't want unsuspecting children left alone in the bathroom to come up with something unusual. And even when they don't...
In Russia, this year alone, there have already been three fatal accidents caused by a phone falling into a bathtub. A phone connected to a Chinese power supply.

Thanks for your unmeritorious reply. Where do you see the "Christmas tree"? In the toilet - two light sources, in the bathroom - three. Regarding health and safety - I think it's obvious that all equipment must meet at least IP44 splash-proof requirements, besides that all switches are located far from the bath (140 cm in a straight line) and at least 60 cm from the washbasin - my doubt was only about the possibility of installing the switch in the room and not outside - now I know that the standard indicates that it should be mounted outside (currently I have a flat from 2004 and the switches inside, as well as the socket without the flapper - all handed over by one of Poland's largest developers. Nevertheless, many manufacturers offer switches for installation in bathrooms, not much, you can even connect a washing machine in it and a jaccuzzi and electric water heater Is this in accordance with the standard in typical block bathrooms 1.2mx1.5m....

Ok, back to the topic - after the substantive comments from Xura, I think that in my case, however, the best solution will be the Luno5 Eledo device - i.e. a switch with entry sensors - counting, to which, if necessary, a door opening sensor, the possibility of manual control even when the autonomous mode is set, has a built-in brightness sensor so that the light turns on only when it is dark (eg. It has a built-in room brightness sensor so that the light only comes on when it is dark (e.g. when no other light is on), the possibility of connecting an additional movement sensor (I do not see the need for one in the bathroom or toilet) and, if I understand correctly, it is also possible to set the automatic mode with manual switching on or off of the light - in this case, after switching the light manually, the device will switch to automatic mode after the entry or exit of another user. Overall it meets my almost all requirements .

I am just curious about the durability (read failure rate) of this solution.... I would hate to find out after 3 years that there is nothing similar on the market anymore and I will have to redo the installation....

I would be very happy to read any comments you may have on the aforementioned Luno5/Luno7 switch.

Best regards!

With such extensive operation assumptions, this is just some small PLC with a built-in real-time clock. In order not to expand the number of switches, it is possible to give one classic switch per room and use a multi-click in the software (to select individual scenes);
But this solution will not be implemented in a flush-mounted box;
Colleague retrofood pointed out an important thing: the installation in wet rooms has its own requirements, so the best option is to lead the power supply of all light points outside the wet rooms to a dedicated switchboard (and make the "intelligent" control there).

hartingh wrote:

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Thanks for your unmeritorious reply. Where do you see the "Christmas tree"?

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I meant the wires on the branches of the Christmas tree, not the lights. Sorry.