How do I make the installation for controlling roller shutters, heating and light?

Question

Hi, I'm doing an installation in a new house and I don't know how best to do the installation to control the roller shutters, heating and lighting. Is it enough if I run a bus cable from the distribution board to each point I want to control and back to the distribution board? If I want to...

jakubek56 · Accepted Answer

Consider wireless modules e.g. Supla, Sonoff.

Anonymous · Accepted Answer

In my opinion, the 'cables' are dependent on the system you choose and the design. Nowadays it is difficult to tell what cables to put in the wall. You don't know how thick and you don't know where and it's not really possible to lay them universally.

jakubek56 wrote:
Consider wireless modules e.g. Supla, Sonoff.

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This in a way solves the problem of wires (unfortunately only in a way) but a radio system is not free of disadvantages (neither is a wired system). Each has its drawbacks.

suworow · Accepted Answer

If, for a colleague, the problem boils down to whether or not to run a wire from the sensor to the switch, then I suggest you give it a rest. If it's going to work, you simply have to sit down and think about it, preferably with someone who knows a bit about it. If you want to make your wiring fairly universal, then you should certainly link the smart home installation to the alarm system, as well as others, but certainly not in the way you have presented it.

xury · Answer

. This would only make sense with Knx type systems. This is an expensive system and the customer is unlikely to do anything himself but have everything done by professionals. Even the wiring. . No. Not that way. Leave the alarm sensor alone. If you do, you must have a Satel Integra control panel to use the sensors for control. And this is done by programming it properly and using the outputs of the control panel, or what is a much better solution through the integration protocol. Anyway, from the way you asked the questions, I think it's unlikely you'll be able to do it yourself.

valek333 · Answer

So what do you propose for future control of lighting, roller shutters, heating via the internet and of course switches, and for the installation to be traditional, not star-shaped.

valek333 · Answer

And a trunk cable from the switchboard to the point I want to control is not enough?

xury · Answer

I suggest looking for a contractor.

suworow · Answer

I dream of a topic from which home automation enthusiasts will learn how to approach this issue, but with the author's attitude and reducing the discussion to how to "throw a cable" I can hardly see it happening....
But I'll give it a try....
First lifebelt:
Lighting circuits. Are they only to be controlled from motion detectors, or perhaps additionally in some other way?

Daro1003 · Answer

When making an installation according to the author's needs, it is necessary to know which control modules are to be used, and more precisely which system. Whether you want to use sonoff and supla, as mentioned earlier, or an alarm system, e.g. Integra, or an adapted Fibaro system for home automation.
Personally, I am planning to make an installation at my house, but I know exactly which module will control what, how and how to connect everything. I plan to lay all wires to the switchboard and put all modules there. According to my calculations, there are 288 module spaces

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My colleague writes that he wants a traditional installation, so for lighting control you can give sonof touch instead of contacts or pack schelly modules behind contacts into boxes, in both cases it would be good to use boxes with pockets. In this way we have an installation for lighting laid traditionally we can always use ordinary contacts and it works traditionally.
We can load various suple, AFE, Tasmota , EspEasy softy into the modules I have mentioned.

Anonymous · Answer

It's not that simple. Firstly, everyone has different requirements for functionality and installation depends on these. secondly, everyone has different skills. Some are able to upload alternative software to Sonoff. others are not. Thirdly, there are those who know how to hold a soldering iron, fourthly, there are those for whom the best option is to play with ready-made blocks (I am completely ignoring those who do not know anything or have a lot of money and do not feel like playing). Add to this the options: the building is inhabited or is under construction or before renovation. Personally, I got a taste of running SmartHome on an existing (very badly made, by the way) electrical system without the possibility of forging in the walls. The size of the junction boxes (probably for lilliputians) meant that I had to spot forge anyway. Because I treated it as a hobby and not a compulsion, the SmartHome is still being built and I never finish it and it is not without adventures that make the workmanship difficult. From my own experience, I know one thing: trying to assemble everything on your own is very tedious and trying to assemble it using Sonoffs and Domoticz (or Home Assistant) is additionally tedious to the cube and not everything works as you would like it to and subsequent updates of the system can bring surprises and, of course, it requires knowledge and experience which you do not acquire in a week. That is why I personally decided to build from blocks of one manufacturer - thanks to this, most of the systems work as they should. Of course, solutions such as Sonoff also work for me, but these are marginal solutions. What is probably important: not to build one system that covers everything. It is better to have some solutions dedicated, working separately and only integrated with SmartHome - e.g. I cannot imagine an alarm system from my SmrtHome manufacturer, nor can I imagine SmartHome on a control panel (e.g. Integra). For me, these solutions need to be separate, autonomous, exchanging information with each other.... As for the question: how can it be done most simply. - the answer is probably one: outsource it to an external company, that will be the easiest. any other solution will be difficult in its own way. i have 160 sensors and actuators at my place so i know a bit about it. The 160 elements do not yet include everything I would like - expansion is ongoing.

Daro1003 · Answer

. What is the main thing you have based on mate Erbit ? What did you use for lighting control ?

Anonymous · Answer

. The German HomeMatic is working for me. On the lighting it is in this older version.(HM not HMIP). For this, I had to replace the switches with monostable ones and the modules as shown in the photo (HM-LC-Sw2-FM) went into the junction boxes. . In the HMIP version, these modules are slightly smaller but have no inputs so they must be radio-controlled only, while the older ones (HM) are button-controlled in addition to radio control. They are powered from the mains. In the case of the HMIP also from the mains but the switch is usually powered by batteries and I do not need to power the switch in my version. There are also switches that replace the original switch, but these require N and L, so they are suitable for a non-busy installation, and of course there are actuators for the switchboard, but then a typical star installation is required. For a manufacturer that has locked itself into its communication standard, HM has a wide range of components. This was important to me so that, in the event of problems, I could go to one manufacturer and not be sent back by the first to the second and by the second to the first. Also, a software update from one manufacturer can cause problems with the other - I have no problems with this.

Daro1003 · Answer

I'm planning to do it in a star and use a Sonoff 4CH in the switchgear, and control them locally via switches which I'll feed with 12V, which will switch on the relay and which will fire the Sonoff.

Anonymous · Answer

. A sculpture, not a sculpture but surely the price difference between the Sonoff 4CH and its HomeMatic equivalent is considerable. Besides, I already had the installation ready so I had no choice. If you want to base it on the actuators in the switchgear then buy 5 switchgears straight away because one, no matter how big it is, will not be enough .

Daro1003 · Answer

Yes, Sonoff is cheaper, but you have to dismantle each one, solder the pins and upload the software, then solder the wires and lead them outside for local control. It is a bit tedious.

I have calculated 288 modules. But I will order more than 300 so that I have plenty to spare.

Anonymous · Answer

You can do it differently. My 160 components (over £200 each) adds up to no less than £32,000. Now translate that into your soldering and software uploads. The choice is yours. Admittedly, I didn't spend it all at once, but I spent it nonetheless.

Daro1003 · Answer

You have 100% if it works and it works with colleagues on another forum it will work out inexpensively for me especially as I have already accumulated 8 Sonoff 4CH.
I want to put the server on a Raspberry, I already have everything, a power supply, 2 Raspberries for testing and SSDs for them. I already have most of the components. As you wrote for 200PLN I have two Sonoffs or even almost 3 which have 4 outputs each so for 200PLN I control 12 bulbs independently.

suworow · Answer

. And this is precisely the kind of information for those fascinated by home automation that I am concerned about. About what they will have to deal with, what skills it all requires. It's not about a ready-made recipe, because there really isn't one. The author asked how to do the wiring. Here, undoubtedly, the greatest opportunity will be to pull all the circuits into the switchboard: . Another important piece of information has also emerged: . And we have an order of magnitude in terms of finances .

Daro1003 · Answer

In summary my system is: . Sonoffy I bought for 60zł on allegro I saw for about 80zł. Raspberry about 300zł but I have one ali for 150zł in total only one will be needed but the other to spare and for testing. I bought two SSD 120G drives at 130PLN each to have two independent systems in case of emergency. Power supply 5V 6A approx. 60PLN. For the relay strips 8 relays on one x 8pcs cost me 150zł. The distribution board will cost about 3 thousand zlotys. And the wires - you know it will go much more. Bargain I bought on FB Zuggy connectors from some disassembly 600pcs at 0.30zł a piece so all the wires from the installation will end up on these Zuggy connectors in case of emergency appropriate bridges and replacement of contacts will make the installation will be traditional.

Anonymous · Answer

This is exactly what I wanted to avoid. For HM I have other sources than £200 so I didn't spend that much but someone else would have to spend that much to do what I did. The question is, does he have to do that much? Lighting The double lighting is an aftermarket module for £250. times 10 rooms equals 2500 zł + control panel for 600 and 3100. Lighting finished. Heating system Head (180) + thermostat (230) * 10 rooms, plus boiler relay = 4500 This is of course an estimate but shows that you don't have to spend £32,000 straight away. Finally, a thought: would I choose Sonoff today? It would seem that since I program, know how to hold a soldering iron and play with Arduino, I am the perfect candidate to say: yes, I would choose Sonoff, but I say a definite NO! Being at the beginning of the game I would certainly have chosen Sonoff if there had been such possibilities and such sources of information then as there are today (and if I had known about it). However, I am glad that this did not happen. Thanks to this (and thanks to HomeMatic), I have components from one manufacturer and I don't worry about any integration. For example, I can 'train' the window sensor to the room thermostat so that it communicates directly with the thermostat. This shortens the response time and there is less radio traffic in the network. In addition, in the event of a failure of the control panel, most of the basic functions (lighting, heating) will continue to function. The scenes stored in the control panel will not work, but you can survive a day or two without this. Sorry for the details, which are not entirely relevant here. I only explained my decision regarding the Sonoff.

Daro1003 · Answer

I've also considered what will happen if the RBPi ladies or if the wifi goes down but the Sonoff 4CH from the local buttons will work and turn on the lights even though it won't be connected to the wifi this is some kind of plus. It is known to be a sculpted system.

Anonymous · Answer

I think this is a very valid argument. Admittedly my control panel hasn't died yet but I have had a case of interference which clogged up the panel with frames and radio communication went down.

Daro1003 · Answer

I'm just worried about interference because there will be a lot of these sonoffs in the switchboard, about 15 of them, and each one will be connected to the WiFi network; I wonder how it will work ;/ the downside is that they can't be connected via LAN.

Anonymous · Answer

I have concerns about this but you can 4 run and check. That said, nasty WiFi is a lot of radio noise. I had a case where someone connected a CCU3 PBX for testing and put it on a router. The PBX runs on 868MHz but... still nothing could be done. Only moving the PBX 1 metre away restored communication. In addition, the wall dampens the signal. It's all about the Frsnel zone.

Daro1003 · Answer

Do you think there will be too many wifi receivers next to each other ??

Anonymous · Answer

. With wifi, it's just like with cable. One transmits, all are busy listening and checking if a frame is addressed to them (to check this they have to read it). Frames addressed to the receiver are processed by the receiver, while the others are ignored (but de facto read anyway). Therefore, a large number of transmitters means a lot of noise (a lot of frames) and you can easily clog up the radio at each receiver. 14 WiFi next to each other is probably quite a problem. It's better to check this in advance or seek the opinions of people who have done something like this.

valek333 · Answer

Hello, I am not interested in a star installation but in a traditional installation, if I can afford it in the future I would like to control the lighting, roller shutters, heating ... ... via the internet and telephone. I will soon be doing the installation in my new house and I would like to know what additional cables to run so that there are not too few of them, or is it enough to run a trunk cable to each point I want to control? And if I buy a SATEL INTEGRA 128-WRL GSM HOME ALARM SYSTEM and want to control lighting and other things, should I run star-shaped cables from the central unit to the point I want to control? And can I use sensors to switch on the lights?

Anonymous · Answer

Then do traditional - one problem solved. The conclusion is that the solutions you adopt must work on such an installation. For my part, I can recommend that you do not skimp on the size of the junction boxes, as this is where most of your SmartHome components will be installed. . I don't think my colleague has read very carefully. What cables you need to lay depends on the system you choose. . I would never use a control panel to control lighting, heating and roller shutters. But that's me - you can do as you think. Unfortunately in the case of Satel I can't help but in general a Satel control panel has inputs/outputs and nothing else. What you connect to it and how you operate it is another matter.

suworow · Answer

For simple automation, control of a few lighting points, since we already have such a platform on the site, why not. Author forgive me, but how am I supposed to answer your questions when you ignore mine . .

How do I make the installation for controlling roller shutters, heating and light?

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