Home control - PLC, roller shutters, lighting, alarm, monitoring - Smart Home + Classic installation

Hello

Please give me your opinions, advice, comments, etc.

I have a house in the unfinished state.
In the spring I am going to start working physically with the electrical installation.

I would like to control:

1) Electric roller shutters. Here I have 13 roller shutters. So in general I need 26 up and down signals. In addition to manual operation, here I would write some algorithms related to possible temperature , sunshine and related to the alarm.

I am considering abandoning the traditional buttons for switching on and off the roller shutter and only manual switching from the application.

2) Lighting. Here, in addition to some circuit related to the motion sensor and the on-off function. I would like to do the light intensity control. Here, as with the roller shutters, I am thinking of dispensing with the classic switches on the walls. Control via a 12V or 24V power supply with analogue input. or via some LED strips with switching every all LED strips / half / 1/3 etc.

3) Alarm. Probably an alarm from Satel or another manufacturer . Ultimately I want to link it to the PLC.

4) Monitoring. External cameras, wants to eventually interface with the PLC system.

5) Heating. Underfloor heating with heat pump. But I want my system to control thermoelectric actuators and possibly send information to the heat pump that there is no heating (all actuators closed).
Here I am additionally wondering whether it is worthwhile to play with this, or whether it is cheaper to buy some tech controller or salus and connect it with the PLC.

6) Door opening. I wonder , whether to buy a door in the future with a classic lock or on some power and also linked to an alarm.

7) Recuperation. Own controller and coupled to PLC

8) Heat pump . Own controller and coupled to the PLC.


Roughly, this is how it looks. How do you see it at all? Does it make sense?

Particularly giving up roller shutter switches and light switches?

What would I want to build this on?

I generally have 2x Carel PLCs with 12 AI, 10 DI, 12 DO, 4 AO also they would not be a cost.

Hence I would want a Carel PLC + cMT from which I would make a SCADE. In addition, the display would be somewhere in the corridor.

The mere fact of packing as many as 26 modular contactors for controlling roller shutters makes for a considerable cost and a large switchboard

What do you think of this in general?

Berend wrote:

6) Door opening. I am wondering , whether to buy a door in the future with a classic lock, or on some kind of power and also linked to the alarm.

Definitely worth having a door controlled via smart home. For now, an app, NFC, and a code, but I'm waiting for secure voice or face opening, like in Windoes Helo.

Think about whether you really want to sculpt this on a PLC. After all, there are ready-made solutions for home automation like Domoticz or HomeAssistant.
For Domoticz I recommend: https://smarticz.smartnydom.pl/ - Smarticz ready image with add-ons - just update and go with adding devices.
For HomeAssistant there is also a ready-made image already put together https://houseiq.pl/pl/p/Serwer-DGW-Home-Assistant-Edge-ZigBee-Z-Wave/2072

But you do as you like.

ad 1. I have 14 roller shutters control on modules shelly 2.5 cool percentage opening / closing work in the cloud and possible integration with Domoticz and HA. Now new shelly 2.5 PM dice have come out. As far as the installation is concerned, I have connected wires from the motors to the distribution board and from the local control buttons to the distribution board, thanks to this solution I always have access to the controllers and their quick servicing, replacement or complete reconstruction of the roller shutter control.

I think the idea of not making switches on the walls at the windows for local control is quite bad because while being in the room I want to cover one roller shutter and search in the phone by applications he he defeat.

What about the controllers schelly 2.5PM - 150zł ready software nice working cheaper while there are sonoff dual R3 based on ESP8266 but the program must be loaded to the blinds well but cheaper 50zł.

ad 2 Lighting you have to choose according to you I pulled the cables from the lamps to the switchboard and in the switchboard I have sonoffs 4CH which on the basis of the AFE software control the lighting.

ad 3 Satel Integra using ETHM integrates with Domoticz and sends all data to it works for me alarm sensors are used to turn on the lights and to collect information such as whether there is someone in the house or in which part of the house is present so you can turn on and off various devices. I recommend Satel has logic functions so that you can also automate something.

ad 4 Monitorinng only rather IP and I recommend a DVR with several outputs and inputs and during the installation take into account the transmission of video from the rack to some TV or screen.

ad 5 In the plans I do not comment on I have a Vailant furnace and although it has control by apke with tel there is no integration rather with domoticz in the plans for the installation of heads 0/1 on the manifold and already brought the installation of temperature sensors based on ESP8266 and DS18B20 in the rooms.

ad 6 I find a sensational solution code locks Satel INT-SCR as part of the alarm system Satel I have uch 4 pieces at the front door and at the garage door such a solution gives me that the house is always closed people enter using codes visitors ring the bell button. I have recently installed 4 at the outbuilding door. I can't imagine the house now without such a solution.

Berend wrote:

Particularly giving up roller shutter switches and light switches?

I can't imagine such a solution walking around and rummaging on the phone for switches - failure manual control must be.

But as much as possible a screen in the centre of the house to operate everything large easy to read and as many functions as possible. I have a touchscreen 15 inches great.

Think about:
- Sound wiring and ceiling speakers in the kitchen bathrooms etc.
- Sockets outside and in the soffit to control the Christmas lights.
- Cables for the light detectors I gave on 3 sides of the house the use of BH1750
- Central vacuuming - everyone said it was obsolete and pointless because of the rumba robots etc. but somehow I wasn't convinced and well, it's a great thing, a powerful hoover and in the kitchen a so-called sweeper/pan pulls in the dirt. A child spills sugar, I pull it up in a few tens of seconds and what does the rumba do with it?

I think I have illuminated the subject a little.

You know, I'm familiar with PLCs and HMIs. In addition, I have these controllers, so I will not bear the cost. But if these applications what you write are better, I will use

Domoticzy or HomeAssistant are based on RasperryPI? Or what is it programmed in?
It looks innocuous, how about the stability of this?



Ad. 1 Ok, so local switches for roller shutters remain. You are right. The shelly 2.5 module costs a bit, but replaces 2 modular contactors and can be mounted. I'll consider it.

So generally you have control of the roller shutters over wi-fi, but in case of emergency, the wires are pulled up to the switchboard - forward thinking.

Ad.2 Sonff-y 4CH , how do you control it?

Ad. 3 Ok, great.

Ad.4 I would like to be able to see this on the Scade, or for example I go to the Scade, click and it takes me to the local network and I can see the monitoring.

Ad.5 0/1 actuators also come into play. I want in a room where I have sections of underfloor heating, PID control and control the temperature based on the room sensor, control the actuators. And send a signal to the PC controller that the actuators are closed or open. Make an algorithm that if all actuators closed to turn off the operation command to the PC (installation without buffer), this applies to central heating, with DHW it is a different matter.

Ad.6 Ok, great. I will also use


I mean, however, I will use switches for lighting and roller shutters. I'm thinking of simply connecting them to the DI inputs of the controller.

Ad.7 Sound system? I was thinking simply a soundbar connected to the TV. So are you suggesting wires to the soundbar and some central amplifier elsewhere?

Ad.8 I was thinking permanent some wires as I want to light the outside of the building, what better sockets or permanent lighting?

Ad.9 Outdoor presence sensors? To control the garden lights or at the soffits?

Ad.10 Do you praise the central vacuuming? I was just thinking of a robot that would vacuum itself.

Domoticz and HA are systems with their own desktop.

They can run on anything even on an old laptop some people put or for example on a synlogy file server I put on a Raspberry and SSD.

With stability there is no problem wakes up normally after power resets.

If you are programming a PLC then you would certainly cope with these systems Domoticz has blocks and others see:


If it comes to stability in the subject of the whole thing then:

Worse e.g. with stability after resets of 230V power supply of other devices e.g. shelly or sonoff sometimes like to fall into configuration mode or restore itself to the factory, but this is not every piece and not always at home on 14 sonoff 4Ch such happened to me in total probably with 3 pieces so I replaced them while with shelly bigger problems because they heat up therefore I do not recommend tight boxes. In my case the electrolytic capacitor failed (and still sometimes fails), after replacing it again the shelly cube works without any problems. I have already replaced it in about 8 out of 14 shelly units, maybe that is why a new version of shelly 2.5 PM was released, precisely because of this type of defects. Sonoffs I also see newer and newer in total I have with me three different editions died those first copies.

No but when it comes to the price of the shelly 2,5 I bought at 90PLN sonoffy 4CH at 60PLN so at such prices there is no need to experience a fallen piece.

Recently I noticed that they also make roller blinds on the sonoff dual which costs 50zł so much cheaper than shelly with the fact that you have to software yourself.

As far as Satel is concerned, there is nothing to say here, stable as a rock for years. But it has its own emergency backup.

On the Sonoff 4Ch I have loaded the AFE software in general sonoffs all easily flashable.

The sound system is 100V 12W ceiling speakers and for this I used an old Pioneer I soldered under the buttons on/off, aux, etc. thanks to this controls the sound system remotely. Yes I know 100V is nowhere near a normal amp but I found if it dies I will buy a typical HQM.
Control from the desktop:


Remember one thing and build your system according to this:

Build such a system and installations so that in the future you can install a switch for "something" a sensor for "something" or another controller anywhere in the house without running wires from the control panel for communication. I do this using wi-fi, all I need is a power supply and then I can connect the controller with Domoticz via wi-fi or LAN.

E.g. I put up a Christmas tree and I put a Sonoff basic for 20PLN on the cable from the lights, I fasten the schedule and I additionally give a key to the control panel and I don't have to reach behind the Christmas tree to switch on the lights - convenience.

I don't want to drag you to the side Domoticz or HA shelly or sonoff everyone has their own vision I just want to show you the possibilities because I also once did not know these systems at all but when I started to test them on the workbench my eyes were opened to many possibilities. I was planning to do the automation on the PLC just like you are planning to do on the Satel on the Integra, now I only support it.

Central hoover - a great thing and a robot you definitely need to buy but probably just to have it for the flair because certainly not for cleaning. Although I have seen systems where the robot is connected to the central and thanks to it empties.

Thanks a lot for clarifying the topic, around Christmas and after, I'll read, watch a lot about it.
You described it nicely, although you worried me a bit about the failure of these actuators.
I'm generally against wireless networks, especially after how the ModBus RTU can behave after RS-485 transmission.
I've honestly heard of such systems as you describe, but I treated it more as a "toy" because I had no experience with it.
Now after what you write I look at it differently.

Isn't it so problems with the range? Because, you know, on the one hand you control everything over wifi, but maybe in the event of a problem you pull the wires from, for example, the roller shutters to the switchboard.

I watched some videos and it is heavily promoted this Home Assistant, that Domoticz is already a bit of a roll.


I originally planned to do the electrical supply switchgear on the PLC, plus the PLC control switchgear + modular contactors (or relay modules with modBus RTU)+ telecommunication, but despite the small house, I was coming up with some "big cow" switchgear.


And here throwing in these shelly 2.5 or SonOffs, I throw it into a can and I have a much smaller switchboard.


What about this HomeAssistant and Raspery, I have never programmed in C or Python, mostly when I worked it in FBD or some functions in SCL (ladder I skip).
Won't this be some kind of obstacle

I also saw on the channel "SmartMyHome" a video where the guy on Beckhoff made a house and HomeAssistant.
Visualisations and sensors wireless over BlueTooth and Zigbee and the whole system in a PLC.

How do you approach such a solution?

Berend wrote:

I am generally against wireless networks

I have done the whole samart home on Wifi/ZigBee - over 70 devices. I hadn't planned for SH in the house, so I didn't prepare the wiring, but somehow it worked out that I bought one, another, a third device.... And it works For this automation on Satel I have done "wired".

Berend wrote:

you worried me with this failure of these actuators

3 years of use one year time of construction two years I almost live and problems:
- replaced 3 sonoffs 4ch after resets of mains power sometimes fell into configuration mode so I replaced them at a cost of 100PLN new so it was a waste of effort.
- out of 14pcs shelly 2,5 two died irretrievably in 3 years while in about 8 I replaced the electrolytic capacitor and they work well, well that is their charm not all designs are successful a new version came out certainly improved
- problem with the Raspberry heating up in the summer - fan fixed the issue.

Acurate such problems I would not worry about, the bone is dead and that's it, everything unfortunately breaks.

In my home network I have more than 100 devices probably 120 even more half on wi-fi problems I had are what I described above but never with a lack of communication through some interference. At the beginning I even had it connected to a Tp-Link router for 60 zał later I added devices began to hang sometimes so I bought a d-link but also sometimes had to give it a reset so finally I was recommended asus and peace. But it was also a matter of a weak access point because the router after a power reset worked fine again for a month.
I was also frightened on the forums that the chicken 10 or 20 wi-fi devices in one place tragedy I now have more than 30 devices in one switchboard controller next to the controller on the bus more than 30 pieces and nothing happens everything works.

Of course there are controllers for LAN such as shelly 4 PRO or roller shutters is also on the rail and with a LAN plug, but the prices knock me out at least because shelly 4 PRO costs PLN 600 and supports 4 bulbs and sonoff 4CH costs PLN 100 and also supports 4 bulbs.

When it comes to Domoticz and HA I started on Domoticz because easier still developed and updated although a lot of people in 4 years as I am in the subject switched to HA but I do not intend to learn it from scratch.

My advice try to load the smartphone do an update check out how it looks like it works what you can do on it buy some sonoff e.g. basic for 20zł load Tasmote or AFE or EspEasy and check it out. Maybe you will not build a base on it, but maybe you will support it.
I do not know any programming language, I use ready-made.

Do the same with HA, learn how to install it and get started with the topic you will see what and how to move there I do not know HA at all I have not seen I do not intend to switch to HA for the time being. It has to be said that I don't know the capabilities of Domoticz very well so what will I change.
Domoticz has a remote screen in the form of Dashticz I have learned enough of its configuration so what more do I need.

Look at the old episodes of Szmal on youtube he used to work also on domoticz and raspberry.

Look at the AFE software: https://afe.smartnydom.pl/pl
Typical forum about such systems: https://www.smartnydom.pl/
Look at Tasmote is also useful.

I don't advise you to stuff the controllers after the cans because of their temperature in a tight can and on the other hand always poor access. I pushed everything in the switchboard unfortunately you have to plan a large and so now I would give a little another typical standing cabinet with plenty of space.

Berend wrote:

I am generally against wireless networks

.

Of course I was thinking all the time and I was almost sure that there would be problems with it a friend who deals with the Internet and Internet transmission and innformatics, etc. told me that it will work that the controllers only send on / off signals and that's it and the temp sensors or other I even set to dump data for example every 20 or 30 seconds so how is this network is supposed to be jammed?

It should be remembered that the above described systems are for the more I would say hobbyists who want to build a home automation for themselves. It is known that everything is modified and combined, but it works well, which is the advantage of these solutions - the low price of the components of controllers, detectors, etc.
It is known that there are typical home automation systems such as Grenton, Lexon, Fibaro proven and tested typical, but it remains only to compare the prices.

On the subject of speakers, it will offer an alternative in the form of Amazon Alexa devices. Versions with a screen of 8" and more, allow - in addition to listening - a glimpse of video. Just power, WiFi transmission and voice control.

@freebsd and what are you based on Domoticz, HA or something else like openHab ?

Daro1003 wrote:

And what do you base Domoticz on, HA or something else like openHab ?

Tuya (plus Alexa).

freebsd wrote:

Berend wrote:

I am generally against wireless networks

I have done the whole samart home on Wifi/ZigBee - over 70 devices. I wasn't planning an SH in the house, so I didn't prepare the wiring, but somehow it worked out that I bought one, another, a third device.... And it works For this automation on the Satel I have done "wired".

All in all, that's right, after all it's not a continuous transmission of signals, but just generally a change of state of 0 and 1.


What exactly do you have from this Satel automation?
Can you elaborate?



@Daro1003

How do you have as many as 100-120 devices? Just out of curiosity, what scales are these more or less.

That is, however, also a proponent of pulling everything to the switchgear and control there.

That is, in general, you did not program it, just connected the blocks.

And how is the durability of this domoticz or home assistant, I know that this is fortune telling, but also do not want that in 10 years the company will die or something.

Thanks for the link, I will read and certainly come back with some questions .

CO to fibro, grenton and loxone. To make it funnier I was at a training with LoxOne in Silesia half a year ago, but what was shown there for me is a bit closed and with no possibility of development and 3 times more expensive than a PLC for me, therefore I am strongly sceptical about this type of solution.


P.S Can you post a photo of the switchgear, how does it look like in you?

Berend wrote:

All in all, that's right, after all it's not a continuous transmission of signals, it's just generally a change of state of 0 and 1.

I used to think that only(!) cable mattered.... However, technology does not stand still. I now use a lot of wireless devices myself, on worse and better equipment. Actually, the difference between WiFi routers comes down to the number of supported devices, and the ease of migration of the network and devices to a new router.
Professionally, I also see entire floors of office buildings of advanced technology companies, where no one has used cable for years.
Still, the most reliable way is cable/fibre, but allowing for some minimal and occasional troubles, wireless networks offer many advantages. I have not observed any problems with e.g. WiFi in real life at home or at work.
Measuring e.g. the energy consumption of the washing machine and dryer, came down to buying two cheap and small "plug-and-socket" , and registering them in the application. A whole 5 minutes' work and the result may not be 100% satisfactory, but it is enough: https://youtube.com/shorts/GW1y390Q1eo?si=jF7H58ZHBDOcB9Dj

Berend wrote:

What exactly do you get out of this Satel automation?
Can you elaborate?

I have a hallway located in the centre of the flat, so it is large and rather dark. So: motion detectors covering the L-shaped hallway and light control, with the light intensity (number of light points activated) dependent on the time of day. As you walk through the hallway, or even as you approach the entrance to the hallway, a small light comes on to ease the transition. This ensures that one does not walk from a light-filled room into a dark hallway.
On entering the house, and on leaving the house, lights were switched on in the hallway and stairwell, plus even an illumination of the door threshold. Lit for a set period of time. I walk in with my shopping, hands busy, and just opening the door turns on my light. Going out to the stairwell analogously - I don't look for the light switch on the stairwell. Very convenient.
Additionally I had several smaller lamps controlled remotely, e.g. to simulate presence.
Remote opening of the gate - here just by SMS: https://jackiewiczowie.blogspot.com/2014/01/alarm-satel-sterowanie-otwieraniem.html
Now the above is operated by Tuya and e.g. the light intensity is changed in addition to the light intensity.
Now the above is supported by Tuya and, for example, in addition to light intensity, its colour is also changed depending on the time of day.
This no longer controls (unfortunately) the lamps in the cage - after their replacement with LEDs, they are lit by signals from their built-in motion and twilight sensors.
This was all subject to change all the time - for example, I replaced the light points. The original version is here: https://jackiewiczowie.blogspot.com/2014/01/alarm-satel-sterowanie-otwieraniem.html
https://jackiewiczowie.blogspot.com/2014/01/alarm-satel-wskaznik-zaaczenia-strefy.html

I was only left with this functionality in SATEL:
When there is a power outage, some lamps are automatically activated for a specific period of time. During a sudden power outage in the flat, we are not plunged into total darkness I have implemented this in such a way that I have literally a few LED light sources fed with 12 V from the Satel control panel in the hallway. The battery is a little bigger and the lights are supposed to stay on for a set amount of time. So I didn't drain the HQ's battery that way, and at the same time I had a minimal light source to run the tourist lights, for example.

Where did the 120 devices in the network come from? I'd have to list them all, but in general it's 14 roller shutter controllers, 17 lighting controllers, 2 Rspberry's, 5 ESP's for temperature and lux intensity, a vailannt cooker, a recuperator, a satellite ETHM, a dishwasher, 5 routers - wi-fi and lan access points, two DVRs (including an outbuilding), POE managed switches, 2x managed LAN switches, 16 IP cameras, 2 satellite decoders, games console, chromecast, network multifunctional device for printing scanning, SP111 sockets and some other ESPs I've forgotten about and they work somewhere in the background for something. You'll see it will add up.

Berend wrote:

And how is the longevity of this domoticz or home assistant, I know it's fortune telling, but I also don't want the company to die in 10 years or something.

In this regard, I know as much as YOU do not know what will be in the world the same can be said of any other company The only certainty is how you have a switch and a bulb old reliable installation. I just have to install in the switchboard 12V relays and 12V power supply and the usual switches will turn on the relays and relays light bulbs all the cables I have in the switchboard so only to string therefore I think pushing in the control boxes is a poor idea.

A few pics I have allocated such an angle in my workshop but for the moment I would definitely do it differently.









As you can see the mess on the shelly controllers but when they were mounted on the brackets nicely on the rail they heated up terribly so they were detached from the brackets and hang loosely so that there is air ventilation and they are sometimes cooled down by a fan when their temperature rises. Shelly controllers share their temp in Domoticz so making the fan control was not a problem.

There is still a screen in the living room:

@Daro1003 , what do you have a camera in every room

Very nice your "engine room" looks. It shows that it has evolved quite a lot during operation.

What specifically are the names of these lighting controllers?

Very cool looking visualisation from Domoticz

By the way, how do they count the % opening of the blinds with these shelly 2.5 modules. On the basis of scaling the time of opening/closing and current loss (electronic or mechanical end) ?

Generally I read about this Home assistant and in the meantime I make a list of circuits what I will need in the house.
After I make a list of circuits, I will look for a system for this.

Hello again

I will slowly be getting together to do the electrical installation at my place.
The house is a ground floor with the possibility of adapting the attic in the future (structurally there are no objections)
Around it will be built a wooden garage + electrical installation to it.

Could you please evaluate what I have prepared in the appendix?
Do not I exaggerate?

The sheet is divided into 4 tabs:

1) Power supply circuits, there is quite a lot of it, I wonder if I do not combine several
2) Telecommunication circuits.
3) Alarm circuits, generally with this I have no experience in the case of using standard systems such as satellite, I have selected some ordinary for 4 sensors, not necessarily satel because they have ugly screens.
4) Control. The number of elements I would like to control. It came out to be a lot.

If you have the time, please give me your opinion on whether I have exaggerated. Or what is missing...

It's hard to check what you've provided without being physically on site.

Berend wrote:

1) Electrical supply circuits, there's quite a lot coming out, I am considering whether to combine several of them

Remember that the more separate circuits the better, maybe someday you will want to switch on/off given circuits for example automatically when you are not at home or connect to these circuits UPS or inverter hybrid of some small photovoltaic are such small for example 2.2KW or 4 KW.

Memorise a separate circuit for ladder heaters in bathrooms if you are planning one.

Berend wrote:

not necessarily Satel because they have ugly screens

Satel as for now integrates with Domoticz or HA I don't know how with other alarm systems you have in mind if they have such integration. And integration is necessary because you use the signals from the detectors.