[Solved] Interference with LED lighting when Surpass PW215F+2CR310 flush-mounted radio is activated

Hello
During the renovation in the whole flat I installed touch switches powered by 230V ( photo no. 1 ). Everything was working until I installed a flush-mounted radio model: Surpass PW215F 2CR310 also powered by 230V ( photo no. 2 ) After starting the device is still ok. The problem starts when I fire up the radio, bluetooth, Mp3 etc. The lighting throughout the flat starts to go crazy. The lights switch on for about 7 seconds and then all go out. When I start the lighting via the switch the leds turn on again for 7 sec and darkness. I should add that the led lighting is also powered directly from the 230V mains. There is no power supply or transformer. The situation returns to normal and correct operation when I switch off the radio and the main menu icons on the unit are displayed. Does anyone have any ideas on how to remedy this. Apparently everything is modern and it turns out that when I turn on the radio I have to sit by a candle to listen to it ;-(

This "radio" how is it powered and what model is it?

The Surpass model PW215F 2CR310 is powered directly from the 230V mains.

tangobravo wrote:

is powered directly from the 230V mains

From the same circuit as the 'variation' switches?

I have plugged in 2 circuits. To the lighting and directly from the socket and the problem occurs no matter from which circuit the radio is powered.

How far is this radio from the switches?

Added after 3 [minutes]:

It is likely that electromagnetic compatibility is not maintained.
Either the switches are less immune to foreign fields than the law stipulates, or the radio transmits so much interference that it affects the operation of the switches.


Is PE connected to the switches and the radio? Of course, if the construction requires it.

Thanks for your reply
The radio is installed in an open living room with an annex. The switches (3 pcs) and the radio are exactly 9 cm apart. On the other hand, I also have switches installed in 2 rooms, which are separated from the radio by a wall and then the distance is about 2 - 3.5 m, depending on the room, and they also activate when the radio is turned on. The radio itself works very well, it catches the frequencies nicely and has no noise. As for the PE connection, I don't know what it is (probably not the European Parliament There were capacitors on the switches but after connecting the LEDs started glowing so they worked exactly the opposite of what they should. Without capacitors, the lighting worked perfectly until the radio was connected. You write about electromagnetic compatibility. Is there any way to compensate for this?

tangobravo wrote:

What the EP connection is, I don't know what it is ( I don't think it's the EP

PE - commonly known as earth, that green/yellow cable in the installation.

Added after 1 [minute]:

tangobravo wrote:

You write about electromagnetic compatibility. Is there any way to compensate for this parameter ?

Buy good equipment from a good manufacturer.

The radio is not earthed because the manufacturer has only powered the radio via 2 wires. As for the contacts, they are of course grounded. The whole installation was done by a specialist. The whole flat (40m2) was wired by a professional and divided the rooms into 5 independent sections.

Every electronic/electrical device is a potential transmitter of unwanted electromagnetic waves and at the same time a receiver of all waves from the surrounding area. For example, when switching an appliance on or off, we may notice a spark jump at the switch or at the plug. Such a phenomenon generates unwanted radio waves over a very wide range. However, the practical range of such waves is a few metres. However, within such a radius, this jump of spark can be observed to produce an audible crackle in the speaker of the radio and to temporarily disrupt the radio broadcast.
Electromagnetic compatibility is a set of standards defining, on the one hand, how resistant a device is to incoming interference signals from the environment and, on the other hand, what maximum interference it can cause itself.
Compliance with these standards is achieved by fine-tuning the design of the device. Selection of operating points for various components in the device, use of shielded enclosures, installation of additional electronic components to compensate for adverse phenomena and others.
Example: Very often on various cables you may notice thickening at the ends. These are ferrite rings (often encased in plastic), which reduce the use of the cable as an unwanted antenna for transmitting or receiving interference.
Modern power supplies with inverters themselves can be very interfering to their surroundings.
In your case either the radio is transmitting too much radio 'rubbish' from its circuits. A radio receiver also has internal generators included in its design, the signals of which should not be escaping from its housing beyond measure.
Or the touch switches are too sensitive to signals from other surrounding devices.

Show pictures of the switch and the radio: front, back and sides. Also show the instructions for these devices. Maybe you just need to mount and connect them properly, according to the guidelines.

How did you connect these capacitors to the switches?

I once had a lamp with a metal housing, switched on by touch. It was able to switch on due to a power surge.
It may be similar here, the radio may be generating such a voltage spike and this is affecting the switches.

tangobravo wrote:

The radio has no ground because the manufacturer has only powered the radio via 2 wires. As far as the contacts are concerned, they are of course grounded. The whole installation was done by a specialist. The whole flat ( 40m2 ) was wired by a professional and divided the rooms into 5 independent sections.

Show pictures of how they were fitted and connected. You will need to pull them out of the boxes a bit.

Thanks mate for the answer.
Neither the radio nor the switches are mounted in the boxes yet only on the cables. I will take photos tomorrow and send them. Only in the rooms are the switches already mounted in the boxes, but this probably won't be a problem since they are connected just like the others, and the effect is the same everywhere.
I connected the capacitors directly to the switch and tried the light source. The LEDs always started to glow. Everything according to the diagram in the manual.

These are the photos I took. If you need any more I will send them to you.
.

Do I see correctly that the phase is connected to the FM antenna input? :o

Certainly this installation was not done by a professional.
The green and yellow wires were not used as intended.
The blue wire is also the phase.
For all intents and purposes, this installation should not have been accepted for technical inspection due to non-compliance with regulations.

There is a piece of cable about 80 cm connected to the antenna input. The color is similar but the phase cable is connected correctly this is the first one on the right

However, try connecting the capacitor as in the diagram, to the terminals of the Leds. This should not cause poor operation.

I have already connected exactly as marked in the diagram. The lights then glow.

tangobravo wrote:

I have already connected exactly as marked in the diagram. The lights then glow.

.

Strange.
And how do the switches then respond to the radio?

From what I've read on the forum the capacitors work well in mechanical switches with LED backlighting. In my case they were added in the set. I bought the switches in a Polish shop. Up to the moment of connecting the radio they worked flawlessly and they still do, as long as I switch off the radio. I don't even have to switch it off completely, just go to the menu in picture 3 and everything lights up beautifully.

Added after 2 [minutes]:

Exactly the same. Lighting comes on for about 7 sec then doesn't go off just glows.

Added after 2 [minutes]:

To clarify. The lighting switches on at 100% power for about 7 sec then goes out but the LEDs glow.

How do the switches work when the antenna is disconnected from the radio?

Unfortunately the radio is the most suspect here.

To be sure, you would have to take the radio and the switch to a laboratory specialising in EMC measurements.

Added after 2 [minutes]: .

You could still fiddle with the filters on the power supply to the radio and switches.
Except that with the switches it will be difficult to put them in, because you have an improperly made installation.

When the antenna is disconnected nothing changes. These niggles with the lighting happen when any function on the unit is switched on e.g. bluetooth, aux, SD card or memory stick and of course the radio. As for the electrical installation it was done by 2 people. The boss and a helper. The whole installation was replaced in 2 days. Until then I had a box on the staircase with a ceramic fuse. When I bought the flat there were more extension leads in it than in the electrical shop. It turned out that only 2 sockets were active. The guys did the job once and twice. The box is now in the flat, and they divided the flat into 5 zones. They ran the wiring through the old ceiling. Everything is nice and simple and there are no hanging wires. They used 3x2.5 cable for the sockets and 3x1.5 for the lighting. They checked everything, patched it up and went. I had no problems with the electrics until the radio was connected. As for the lab tests, I rather let it go. Things don't always work out the way we want them to. Thank you for your help and your time.

Welcome,

Is it possible to power the radio from a different phase to the lighting for a trial?

Greetings.

Unfortunately, it is probably the switches that are faulty after all.

https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3776410.html

Hello
I have already tried and unfortunately nothing has changed but thanks for your interest in the topic.
Greetings

Added after 22 [minutes]:

gkwiatkowski wrote:

Unfortunately it is probably the switches that are faulty after all.

https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3776410.html

Possibly, admittedly they have an EU certificate and power parameters of 90-250V but it's clear they're Chinese. Tomorrow I'll take the glass off some more and look if there is any change. I can also power the player directly from my neighbour's flat (extension cord), but I personally think that this will do nothing because the problem is either in the radio or in the switches. I am ruling out the electrical installation. I would bet on the radio because I have a few other electronic gadgets installed in my flat (smart alarm, wireless PIR detectors, wi-fi 360 PTZ camera and a few others) and everything worked fine until the radio was installed.

tangobravo wrote:

When the antenna is disconnected, nothing changes.

The radio probably "sows" from the inverter, and the switches are also some kind of Chinese product.

I would replace the switches with some branded product for a trial.

Ok, thanks. We'll see what we can do

Hello.
How did you deal with the problem? I have a similar situation. After connecting the surface-mounted radio, I have a problem with the two touch switches (both single). When the radio is playing they cannot be switched on and off, but when the radio is not playing everything works fine. One switch is on the other side of the wall and the other is about 4 meters away. Both are on different circuits. The double switches, which are closer to the radio, work without any problems.
My opinion is that the radio is generating some interference.

I have replaced the radio with another one with fewer bits and pieces, and everything works fine. Topic closed.