logo elektroda
logo elektroda
X
logo elektroda

Microprojects - A simple (stereo) bar-LED driven driving indicator.

398216 Usunięty 3720 85
ADVERTISEMENT
Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
📢 Listen (AI):
  • Close-up of a PCB with electronic components and wires on an orange background.
    Let me introduce my mini-drive indicator project, inspired by LED poles I found on AliExpress in three colours - looking "from below": five green, three yellow and two red. They were just begging to be used as an audio output indicator....

    Technical diagram of an LED bar graph display with pin numbering and dimensions.
    .

    Of course, similar posts can also be obtained in single or dual colour and in any of the available LED light colours.
    It took a bit of "scouring" of AliExpress, because just such a set of colours (and in such quantities of each) - contrary to appearances - is not the most popular. If anything, it is more common to come across offers of similar BAR LED indicators, but instead of the first (lowest) green LED being inserted in (as if otherwise... ;) ) blue. The given set didn't quite suit me for obvious reasons, but I finally got around to it and found one that was more normal.

    There are, of course, similar gauges on offer from Ali.... "by the metre". Hardly any that come in different colours - all of one shade, red, green, blue, etc., right down to the most varied colour sets or different numbers of LEDs. If someone is interested in the offer, but, for example, 10 LEDs is not enough - there are also posts half the size, also in one or two colours. And since (and I have included this in the topic) IT IS ALSO POSSIBLE TO CONNECT LM391* DRIVERS in series and obtain indicators with a greater number of LEDs (and, of course, a greater range of indicated sensitivity levels) - I believe that the field of possibilities is huge.

    I based my design on a typical application for an IC specifically designed for such applications, the LM3915. The application note of the chip explains everything. In addition, it contains a rich description of all possible applications, which means that this chip (now only produced in China), even today - many years after its premiere on the market - can still be an interesting proposition. I chose one (tested by myself many times in several earlier devices, but still with single LEDs) found years ago in one of the first issues of "Electronics for All".

    Electronic circuit diagram with LEDs, TL081 operational amplifier, and other components.
    .

    As I wrote - the schematic has been verified by me more than once in such a circuit and has worked great. So all that was left to do was to work out a proper drawing of the paths to it, add the LED posts and.... done.
    Of course, there were a few minor mistakes. Unfortunately, the years have taken their toll, and the board with the LED bars had to be mounted in a rather unusual way.... Anyway, we managed to design the whole thing into a compact module of relatively small dimensions.

    Technical diagram showing two rows of components with dimensions 34x35.
    .

    Diagram of connections on an electrical panel with label A.
    .

    Circuit board trace schematic on a white background.
    .

    PCB design for an electronic circuit with components and traces.
    .

    For those who may be interested - the drawings of the paths are suitable for the production by thermal transfer of the boards enabling the assembly of such a module as in the following pictures. Simply print them in their original size and transfer such a print to the laminate.

    One could talk a lot, but since "one picture is worth more than a thousand words", I will present my work on making the prototype below in the form of a photo report.

    Applying the laminate cut to size to the print (Kapton adhesive film):

    A paper with text on a wooden table and a metal object.
    .

    After 'ironing' and removing the paper (I use pages from women's monthly magazines - already read, of course, and with my Wife's permission, made available to me for this purpose):

    The image shows a kitchen mat with drawn circles, a jar labeled Ogórki kwaszone, a lid, and two printed circuit boards.


    A thermal transfer made in this way is already suitable for etching (available etch at any electronics shop):

    Two printed circuit boards on an orange background with white circles.
    .

    Two yellow PCB pieces on an orange mat with concentric circles.
    .

    Once the superfluous copper has been completely removed, the toner needs to be washed off, in my case with f-brand "Dragon" all-purpose solvent. Unfortunately it has one disadvantage - each successive batch has a slightly different composition and sometimes it dissolves the toner completely and without any problem from the plate, and sometimes (different batch) it only "softens" it and it takes a little longer to remove it:

    Items for PCB creation on an orange silicone mat.
    .

    Printed circuit boards before assembly process.
    .

    After removing the toner, it would be a good idea to coat the plates with a rosin solution in IPA. One, this will make it easier to solder the components later, and two, it will protect the tracks from oxidation.

    Printed circuit boards, brush, and jar on an orange mat.
    .

    The rosin coating needs to be COMPLETELY dried before the next step - in my case I put the tiles on a hot electric cooker (induction is not suitable) for about 45 seconds. As soon as you start to see a slight vapour rising from the tile - I turn off the power and leave it until the cooker cools down.

    Thus protected it is ready for drilling and soldering - the rosin coating will effectively protect the copper for decades against airborne contaminants (sulphides, oxides, etc.).
    For a high-speed drill with a precision drill chuck, insert a WIDIA drill bit (I usually use a 0.8mm diameter for most of the through-hole components).

    CNC milling machine with a drill bit above a wooden surface.
    .

    And we drill. If we have the option, it is a good idea to set the speed to max. - A widia drill performs best at at least 10,000 rpm.

    CNC machine milling a pattern on a printed circuit board.
    .

    Holes drilled in this way retain their ideal shape and the pitchfork drills ensure that, thanks to the long life of the pitchfork, the copper around the hole, the 'pad', is not damaged, facilitating correct soldering of components.

    Three printed circuit boards on an orange mat with white circles.
    .

    We have the boards ready to assemble the components. However, before we switch on the soldering iron, it is a good idea to clip a few critical components and check the order in which they should be soldered. In this particular case, this caution applies especially to the board with the LED posts.

    Soldering it with the LM3915 and LM741 (or a similar circuit with a single operational amplifier structure) should always be started by soldering the least stand-off components on the board.

    Prototype board with resistors and diodes on an orange background.
    .
    A printed circuit board with solder points on an orange mat.
    .

    It is a good idea to supply your soldering iron with a tip that is as precise as possible - with a sharp, thin tip.

    After soldering the lowest components, it will be the turn of the higher and higher components - this will make the assembly and the soldering itself easier, especially if you do not use a solder holder for the board to be soldered.

    Close-up of electronic components on an orange cutting mat.
    .

    Printed circuit board with electronic components on an orange background with curved white lines and numbers.
    .

    Circuit board showing copper traces and soldering.
    .

    It's time for some fitting. The LED display board attaches to the controls using angled goldpin strips. Depending on what is available (although the ones in the prototype are the easiest to find) you will sometimes need to shorten the pins going into the display board. The goldpins I've used allow the pins to be left without cutting their length - the protruding ends fit perfectly under the displays.

    Electronic components on an orange mat with markings.
    .

    LED display on a PCB on an orange work mat.
    .

    After soldering, the whole thing looks like the following:

    Electronic board with seven-segment displays on an orange mat.
    .

    Printed circuit board with electronic components on an orange background.
    .

    Two yellow electronic modules with USB connectors on an orange background with white circles.
    .

    Close-up of a circuit board with electronic components on an orange background.
    .

    You can think about mounting the module to the faceplate. My suggestion requires two M3 mounting studs in "girl and boy" design, i.e. with female threads and a threaded pin. For a perfect fit with the faceplate on the inside of the case, 8mm long dowels will fit.

    Printed circuit board with a Hudy tool next to it.
    .

    Circuit board with electronic components on an orange background.
    .

    Electronic circuit board on an orange mat with small components.
    .

    Electronic circuit board with protruding components on an orange surface.
    .

    A printed circuit board placed on an orange mat with white circles.
    .

    Close-up of a printed circuit board with conductive tracks and soldered components, placed on an orange surface with white circles.
    .

    Two segment LED displays on a circuit board on an orange background.
    .

    The size of the stereo indicator module made in this way is, looking at the display panel - 38mm wide, 35mm high, and the depth (from the front of the indicator to the end of the control boards (not including the power and input signal connectors)) is about 55mm. Note!6cbb22087 Since the distance between the driver boards is small (approx.. 12mm), capacitors should be selected as "low" as possible so that there is no possibility of their housings short-circuiting with the pads of the adjacent board.

    The module is powered from 12V (if different, changes must be made to the application components - see the LM3915 chip data sheet for more. For example here: http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/).

    In my case, I chose the 3915 from the LM391* family, as this chip works best as an amplifier drive indicator. If someone wanted to use such an indicator, e.g. for a tape recorder, it would be appropriate to use the 3916, which has a "stretched" section of sensitivity around 0dB. This will allow a more precise setting of the recording sensitivity without the danger of overdriving the signal.

    Now about the sensitivity adjustment of the indicators themselves. In a design like the one in the diagram, the signal sensitivity will be around 0dB (0.775V), and to some extent this value can be varied by selecting resistor R13 (according to the markings in the diagram). However, in a situation where we would like, for example, to connect this indicator to loudspeaker outputs, we cannot do without a voltage divider selected according to the maximum voltage at the amplifier output adjusted to +3dB. In such a case, the indications of the indicator (leaving R13 as in the diagram) will accurately show the amplifier's state of drive, taking into account momentary "peaks" for the loudest moments of the recording.

    And how does it work in real life?
    Well, more or less as follows.

    The value of the input resistance is approximately equal to R13, so you can in many cases ignore the influence of such a large one when connecting the input.

    As you can see below, full drive is possible 'from the finger':


    .

    The rise and fall times of the indications are adapted to the applicable standards. The bar reaches its maximum indication in about 1/10 of the time it takes for all LEDs to go out. This ensures that we do not "miss" momentary "pins" in the signal and, in turn, the slow descent enables a non-fatiguing observation of the indicator. If it reacted faster, instead of a fully-fledged indicator, we would rather have a flicker whose flashing for the observer did not change depending on the signal value enough to notice the difference, for example, between musical signals of -10 and 0dB. This is, unfortunately, a common mistake among the "Young Talented", for whom the flashing itself is the most fun, while it is difficult to call such an arrangement useful as an actual level indicator.

    A few words about the LM741 application. This circuit acts here as a signal rectifier; it converts the variable music signal into real-time DC voltage fluctuations. In addition, the diode chip (1N4148 or any low-power silicon diode) provides a QUASI-IDEAL rectifier circuit. That is, it includes both halves of the signal - above and below zero - in the output voltage value.

    Finally, the method of connecting the power supply.
    In the prototype, I used two separate power and input signal sockets for each channel (of each board). Of course, the power supply can be shared between the two control boards, so there is nothing stopping you from connecting the respective solder fields to each other (ground and plus of the power supply) using silver wire. However, there are, after all, power amplifiers with a bridge output for which neither speaker output is connected to ground. In this case, the two boards must be electrically separated - if the ground or power supply were shared, this could lead to damage to the amplifiers connected to the indicator, or to the indicator boards themselves. Separate supply voltages are required for this type of power amplifier. In typical amplifiers with the loudspeaker output ground connected to the amplifier supply ground, the supply points of both indicator boards can be combined, as I described above.

    To conclude the topic, I attach videos of the indicator connected to a tuned generator - the sensitivity drop for 1Hz is about -3dB, increasing as the frequency increases. Above 10Hz the sensitivity is already constant, up to about 60kHz:



    .

    As I've already written, the LM391* family of circuits includes three models - the 3915, with a change in active diode every 3 dB, the 3916, with a stretched indication area for 0 dB, and the 3914, whose diodes light up linearly as the input voltage increases. For each of these, the applications are different, allowing a suitable implementation to be selected according to need. The 3914, for example, can replace a voltage meter with a resolution of 1/10th (e.g. for 1V only the first diode is lit, for 4V four (or the fourth - it can be switched to light only the diode for the maximum currently measured voltage, or a series of diodes are lit from min to max of the specified voltage), and for 10V the last (or all). There are also many additional applications to be found in the DS of the circuit - e.g. allowing one to get an indicator from two LM3915s consisting of 20 LEDs with an increased dynamic range displayed. Or a circuit where exceeding a certain measured voltage value causes an alarm in the form of flashing of all LEDs. Thus - a simple circuit with enormous possibilities depending only on the imagination or requirements of the designer. I encourage you to familiarise yourself with these circuits and I hope that this topic will contribute to the interest in this family of LM.

    Best regards.

    Cool? Ranking DIY
    About Author
    398216 Usunięty
    Level 43  
    Offline 
    398216 Usunięty wrote 33132 posts with rating 8584, helped 3856 times. Been with us since 2015 year.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #2 21544304
    TechEkspert
    Editor
    Nice workmanship, I used to catch a 'phase' with modular designs where designs were based around a power supply/power control/signal board to which the expansion boards were connected. Looking at the design I still like this approach.

    I've encountered LM391x circuits a long time ago and they have something about them, they are well thought out and multifunctional, for example I once came across a spot display of mains voltage with 5V or 10V resolution.
  • #3 21544319
    398216 Usunięty
    Level 43  
    As far as the LM 391* is concerned, they are (apart from what you have written) suitable for really many applications. They can be connected "in series" to obtain, for example, a 20-point indicator rather than a 10-point one, they can be set freely (by changing a few values of the elements - the DS provides formulae), and the brightness can be adjusted (also by changing a few values). The only drawback is the current consumed by the circuit - the more LEDs are lit at the same time, the higher the current consumption. However, there is one indisputable (in my opinion) advantage - simple application. Try to build such an indicator on foot using operational amplifiers, resistors (comparator dividers) etc...
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #4 21544634
    DJ_KLIMA
    Level 24  
    Well, and still 5£, at one time when they appeared I quietly thought they would make a peak hold, they didn't.
  • #5 21544829
    MikeC
    Level 32  
    DJ_KLIMA wrote:
    No and still 5£
    on ali I bought 10pcs LM3915 for 11,80£ with shipping .
  • #6 21545016
    398216 Usunięty
    Level 43  
    MikeC - I've written about this several times before; You can get a lower price on Aliexpress and very often and sometimes much lower. Unfortunately- you also have to be careful because you can get nicked for a scrap. Once, tempted by a low price in this way, I too got nicked; I bought 5 LM3886 units and it turned out that all of them had a manufacturing defect (internal short circuit).
    Therefore, I remind and warn you: check the comments (number of stars), and the number of pieces sold. If someone has a small number of sales, it may turn out that he or she has set up a "shop" just to get rid of scrap.
    If you are going to buy a larger quantity of something, look for wholesalers - that is, listings where at least a few hundred/thousand pieces have been sold.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #7 21545379
    MikeC
    Level 32  
    398216 Usunięty wrote:
    MikeC - I have written about this several times already; On Aliexpress you can get a lower price and very often and sometimes much lower. Unfortunately- you also have to be careful because you can get nicked for a scrap. Once, tempted by the low price in this way, I also got cut; I bought 5 LM3886 and it turned out that all of them had a manufacturing defect (internal short circuit).
    Of course , you have to be careful . Power components at suspiciously low prices are mostly duds . I had the same with the LM338 they were not cheap but all turned out to be fake and burned at about 1.5A inside a miniature structure compared to the original .Recently I bought Dram 4464 memories at 13PLN for 10pcs all were refurbished old (paint job) but functional , just like the GAL16V8 or Z80 - ridiculously cheap and ok .
  • #8 21545578
    acctr
    Level 38  
    Therefore, once you have received a consignment from China, you need to quickly test the goods you have ordered and, if necessary, request a refund and there is usually no problem with this.
    Helpful post? Buy me a coffee.
  • #9 21545716
    efi222
    Level 19  
    398216 Usunięty wrote:
    The pole reaches maximum indication in about 1/10 of the time it takes for all the LEDs to go out
    .
    Interesting information. I've always wondered with my designs what the delay should be when the bar falls and averages (response to rising audio levels).

    The PCB has some gouged paths. Maybe too strong a solution?
    Everyone has their own patent for making PCBs. I do half the concentration recommended for B327, as I had similar effects with a stronger one.

    Very detailed description of the construction a plus.
  • #10 21545748
    acctr
    Level 38  
    398216 Usunięty wrote:
    There is one indisputable (in my opinion ) advantage - simple application. Try to build such an indicator on "foot" using operational amplifiers resistors (comparator dividers) etc...
    .
    It can be done even more simply, "on foot", but by writing a program for a microcontroller.
    Helpful post? Buy me a coffee.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #11 21545797
    efi222
    Level 19  
    acctr wrote:
    You can do even simpler, "on foot", but writing a program for a microcontroller.
    .
    And implement in addition the peak hold mentioned by @DJ_KLIMA.
  • #12 21545802
    Mastertech
    Level 27  
    Some sort of peer would be useful, even bought in one order will have a scattering of parameters, plus bear in mind that the colour of the LEDs used will also affect the indication.

    There are plenty of ready-made such modules on LM3915 to buy for pennies.
    There is also a large selection of others, ranging from those based on transistors to 10-band microcontroller-based analysers.

    As for immortal circuits, I've noticed 'rejuvenated' ICL7107 voltmeters on Ali. They are a lot more expensive than those on CPUs , but the "ICL" itself is in a DIP30 case so not a true analogue of the original. The kit costs 30£ so my curiosity did not overcome the greed of the seller.
  • #13 21545820
    efi222
    Level 19  
    Mastertech wrote:
    remember that the colour of the LEDs used will also affect the indication.
    .
    Would you explain this phenomenon in more detail when using the LM3915?

    Mastertech wrote:
    There are plenty of off-the-shelf such modules on the LM3915 to buy for pennies.
    There is also a large selection of others, ranging from those on transistors to 10-band analysers on microcontrollers

    Are you that serious? :)
  • #14 21545840
    ArturAVS
    Moderator
    @398216 Usunięty the most interesting thing is that despite the popularity of these circuits, in most professional equipment this is done 'on foot' using op-amps as comparators. It's probably a matter of setting the right thresholds.
  • #15 21545871
    398216 Usunięty
    Level 43  
    efi222 wrote:
    PCB has a bit of a stoked pathway. Maybe too strong a solution?
    .
    No, it is the fault of too short a "pressing" time. Normally (worked out by experience) the ironing time with me should be 4 minutes, here by mistake the ironing t6took a minute less.
    acctr wrote:
    It could be done even more simply, "on foot", but by writing a program for the microcontroller.
    .
    One can... but after several experiences with "audio spectrum analysers" implemented in this way ()descriptions I posted in earlier topics) I have become discouraged with such a solution. Probably better results could be obtained - especially if one were limited to one (possibly two) posts, but ... the distaste remained.
    It's something like listening to a black disc and comparing it to a CD of mediocre quality: Seemingly the same, but the details are irritating.
    efi222 wrote:
    And implement additionally the peak hold mentioned by @DJ_KLIMA.
    This was already thought about by the designers quite a few years ago. In fact, there are integrated circuits implementing such an option. I can't remember the name, but I have seen them in operation. Unfortunately, compared to the LM 391* they are hardly available (I don't know why, anyway).
    I haven't written about this before, but while the original LM 391*s stopped being produced a nice few years ago, Chinese equivalents are still being produced (as it turns out they work quite well - like those used in the "microproject").
    Mastertech wrote:
    Some peer would be useful, even bought in one order will have a spread of parameters
    .
    I've thought about this too, but as long as you use resistors with a small deviation in value - it's not needed. Besides, 3 dB (that's the "jump" on the next LED) is enough that small sensitivity deviations are unnoticeable. And besides - who needs an output indicator with greater accuracy?
    I'm not saying that if you like/want to, you can put a 500k PR instead of a 430k resistor - and play around with precise sensitivity scaling. I am not saying that if you like/favour it, you can put a PR'ek 500k resistor instead of a 430k one and play with precise sensitivity scaling. A fixed resistor (as the name suggests) would certainly work better in such an application.
    Mastertech wrote:
    Additionally, remember that the colour of the LEDs used will also affect the indication.
    Well, my colleague has gone over the edge.... Please take a look at the internal schematic of the LM 391* and consider what the Colleague has written. DS available at the link provided in the article...
    Mastertech wrote:
    There are plenty of ready-made such modules on the LM3915 to buy for pennies.
    .
    Please - compare these circuits first and then punch yourself in the breast and correct these revelations. Yes there are "off-the-shelf" but truncated from the "real" rectifier circuit - in this "microproject" realised on WO.
    Believe me - the difference in performance is huge.
    ArturAVS wrote:
    @398216 Usunięty the most interesting thing is that despite the popularity of these circuits, in most professional equipment this is done "on foot" using op-amps as comparators. It's probably a matter of setting the right thresholds.
    Yes, I think so too. In addition, you have to take into account that a 10-point indicator as for PRO equipment is a bit low... Apparently, you can use a "series" connection obtaining a 20 degrees, but the cost compared to production on operational amplifiers (for high-volume production) comes out much lower.
  • #16 21546021
    Janusz_kk
    Level 39  
    398216 Usunięty wrote:
    A few words about the LM741 application. This circuit acts here as a signal rectifier; it converts a variable music signal into a real-time DC voltage swing. In addition, the diode chip (1N4148 or any low-power silicon diode) provides a QUASI-IDEAL rectifier circuit. That is, it includes both halves of the signal - above and below zero - in the output voltage value.

    This is not true, this is a single-voltage rectifier, it only rectifies the negative input half-wave, for the positive one the diode d12 is conducting at the input which gives -0.65v at the output relative to the input and the diode d11 is in reverse.
  • #17 21546133
    acctr
    Level 38  
    Janusz_kk wrote:
    for positive, diode d12 is conducting at the input which gives -0.65v at the output relative to the input
    .
    Wrong, the output is then about -0.65v but relative to the REFA.
    Helpful post? Buy me a coffee.
  • #18 21546143
    ArturAVS
    Moderator
    398216 Usunięty wrote:
    you have to take into account that a 10-point indicator for PRO equipment is a bit low...
    .
    I just happen to have something from the Behringer stable to replace switches and here the indicators are 12-point. I don't have the nerve at the moment, but once I've opened it up I'll post pics.

    Screenshot from the SM twin model;


    Schematic diagram of an audio level meter circuit with operational amplifiers and 12-step LED indicators.
    .

    The only major difference is the fully symmetrical +/- 15V supply.
  • #19 21546198
    Janusz_kk
    Level 39  
    acctr wrote:
    Wrong, the output is then about -0.65 V but relative to the REFA.
    .
    Not at all, it comes out to the same thing with the accuracy of the unbalance voltage.
    Janusz_kk wrote:
    output relative to input

    because it was about the input of the amplifier and not the circuit which was obvious to me but as you can see not everyone caught that.
  • #20 21546499
    acctr
    Level 38  
    Janusz_kk wrote:
    Not at all, it comes out to the same thing with the accuracy of the non-equilibrium voltage.
    .
    Note the use of the word 'about' with the key meaning there.
    Janusz_kk wrote:
    because it was about the input of the amplifier and not the circuit which was obvious to me but as you can see not everyone caught that
    .
    This circuit is an amplifier so you still can't write precisely what you want to convey and if you have taken to lecturing then it would be appropriate.
    When describing in detail the operation of a circuit based on an operational amplifier you do not write "input" but "inputs" or "non-inverting input" or "inverting input".
    Helpful post? Buy me a coffee.
  • #21 21546874
    Janusz_kk
    Level 39  
    acctr wrote:
    This circuit is an amplifier so you still can't write precisely what you want to convey and if you've already taken to lecturing it would be appropriate.
    I have written precisely what you want to convey.
    I wrote precisely
    Janusz_kk wrote:
    that is not true, it is a single-voltage rectifier,

    and not a full-period rectifier as suggested by the author.
  • #22 21546878
    efi222
    Level 19  
    398216 Usunięty wrote:
    listening to a black disc and comparing it to a CD
    .
    I'm going to deviate from the subject, but I was reminded of a situation.
    A younger colleague, who had never listened to vinyl, borrowed a turntable for a comparison of the sound with CD.
    After listening to it, he found (an interesting comparison) that the sound from the black disc was like a painted picture - i.e. "artistic" and from the audio CD like a photo from a digital camera, i.e. "qualitatively" better but lacking that something....
  • #23 21546973
    398216 Usunięty
    Level 43  
    Janusz_kk wrote:
    Janusz_kk wrote:
    this is not true, it is a single-voltage rectifier,
    .
    and not a full-period rectifier as suggested by the author.

    Since you're quoting my statement I'm surprised you didn't notice the word QUASI ideal rectifier. It didn't say a word about a full-period rectifier:
    "
    398216 Usunięty wrote:
    takes into account both halves of the signal in the output voltage
    .
    I have written it takes into account and yet there is a difference.
    If you had noticed this you probably wouldn't need to write several unnecessary posts.
  • #24 21547755
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    efi222 wrote:
    .
    After listening, he concluded (an interesting comparison) that the sound from a black disc is like a painted picture - i.e. "artistic" and from CD audio like a photo from a digital camera, i.e. "qualitatively" better but lacking that something...
    .
    Because it's true - once a long time ago, when CD was born, someone wrote wisely that the difference is in how vinyl and CD audio is recorded and reproduced.
    CD is digital recording, the decoder creates an audio track from it (in the DA converter from the data stream it creates L+P channels), while vinyl is analogue and there the ambience is given by the harmonics of the sound, which are clipped before recording to CD because they would take up too much on the disc.

    Ordinary CDs have a theoretical frequency response of 0-22kHz (at a typical sampling rate of 44.1kHz).

    Interesting article https://blog.salonydenon.pl/winyl-czy-cd-co-brzmi-lepiej/.
    Summary:

    (...) vinyl will always be a completely lossless format, meaning that you hear exactly what the artist intended. Ultimately, it's up to the listener to analyse the various nuances and decide what is most important to ensure listening pleasure(...)

    It is worth reading and forming your own opinion. I fully agree with the content - the CD is more mechanical and probably a lot depends on the quality of the CA converter, and in the turntable a lot was given by the needle and the quality of the amplifier.
  • #25 21547770
    Mastertech
    Level 27  
    Vinyl is lossless for the first few plays.
    After that, the quality decreases because the needle destroys the embossed grooves.
    The same goes for cassette tape.
    CD Audio also died along the way because it was too good, replaced by MP3.
  • #26 21547792
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    Mastertech wrote:
    .
    CD Audio also died along the way because it was too good, it was replaced by MP3.

    MP3 is no good either - personally I only listen to 320kbps because the lower ones annoy me with the sand instead of the sound of the drum cymbals (and other high pitched parts).
    FLAC supposedly better and some kind of DSD format.

    SACD uses a sampling rate of 2.8224 MHz - a value 64 times higher than that used on CD (44.1 kHz). Here the bandwidth was said to be 192kHz - I have such a CD + DVD + DVD Audio disc and there is a significant difference in listening already on the home cinema (much more detail in the background). I haven't listened to this hybrid on anything else and don't know what it would sound like on decent audio equipment.
  • #27 21547852
    acctr
    Level 38  
    sq3evp wrote:
    Interesting article https://blog.salonydenon.pl/winyl-czy-cd-co-brzmi-lepiej/.
    Summary:

    (...) vinyl will always be a completely lossless format, which means you hear exactly what the artist intended.
    .
    Provided the disc is made of diamond :) .
    Just because someone has written something to themselves on the internet does not mean that this is actually the case.
    Helpful post? Buy me a coffee.
  • #28 21547884
    398216 Usunięty
    Level 43  
    Mastertech wrote:
    CD Audio also died along the way because it was too good, replaced by MP3.

    And supposedly MP3 has better quality than CD???? I dare to doubt it.
    CD took hold for several reasons that black disc could not offer:
    1. lack of finger sensitivity. A CD can even be scratched (as long as in moderation) and as long as the laser itself is ok, there is no problem with playback quality; no stuttering, no crackling.
    2 One of the first CD players was a portable player. Admittedly it was still large and required a lot of batteries, but it offered clear sound even when walking around with it (I had the opportunity to play with such a Sony CD in the early 1980s).
    3 The ability to stop playback at any time without worrying about the CD. As well as quick access to any track on the disc, creating your own playlist etc.
    In these respects (despite several attempts) the black disc could not keep up.
    sq3evp wrote:
    CD is more mechanical
    .

    Surely? You'll forgive my colleague, but from my observations over several decades of working in audio services, the opposite is true. It is much more difficult to make good mechanics for a conventional turntable than for a CD. There (in a CD player) the electronics are responsible for practically everything, and these are practically eternal.
    sq3evp wrote:
    there the atmosphere is given by the harmonics of the sound, which are clipped before being recorded on the CD
    I wonder how. Can a colleague elaborate?
  • #29 21547959
    efi222
    Level 19  
    398216 Usunięty wrote:
    sq3evp wrote:
    CD is more mechanical
    .

    Are you sure??
    .
    I perceived the term as the sound of sound. That is to say, more clear - synthetic.
    But maybe I'm wrong.
  • #30 21548117
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    efi222 wrote:
    .
    I perceived the term as the sound of sound. That is to say, more clear - synthetic.
    But maybe I am wrong.
    .
    Mechanical in the sense of artificial, too accurate for the real world.
    Vinyl introduces what CD doesn't.
    The sound is not so sterile - that's what the mechanicality of CD sound is all about. I don't know how I would listen with players and pickups at the price of a city car then maybe I would change my mind :) .
📢 Listen (AI):

Topic summary

The discussion centers on a microproject involving a simple stereo bar-LED driving indicator using a specific set of LEDs (five green, three yellow, two red) sourced from AliExpress. The design is based on the LM391x series integrated circuits, particularly the LM3914 and LM3915, known for their multifunctional LED bar/dot display capabilities. The LM391x ICs allow for adjustable brightness, scalable LED points (e.g., chaining for 20-point indicators), and linear or logarithmic response characteristics. The main advantages highlighted include simplicity and ease of implementation compared to discrete op-amp comparator circuits, though current consumption increases with more LEDs lit simultaneously.

The project includes PCB design considerations, with debate over single-sided versus double-sided boards, emphasizing the practicality and accessibility of single-sided PCBs for hobbyists despite the complexity of routing. The discussion also touches on the importance of verifying component authenticity when purchasing from AliExpress, as counterfeit or defective parts (e.g., LM3886, LM338) can be common.

Additional technical points include the use of quasi-ideal rectifiers in the input stage, the challenge of peak hold functionality (not inherently supported by LM391x), and the possibility of microcontroller-based implementations for simpler or more feature-rich solutions. The conversation briefly diverges into audio quality debates comparing vinyl and CD formats, highlighting dynamic range, sound characteristics, and recording techniques, but this is ancillary to the main electronics topic.

Overall, the project is a practical example of adapting a classic LED bar indicator IC to a custom LED configuration, with emphasis on learning through PCB design and component selection, while acknowledging the limitations and trade-offs of the LM391x approach.
Summary generated by the language model.
ADVERTISEMENT