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SSDs lose data with prolonged power outages

Natsuki Kuga 52488 28
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  • SSDs lose data with prolonged power outages

    As is well known, SSDs are the successors of traditional hard drives that operate using magnetic media. The new generation exceeds the old one with various parameters, e.g. faster reading and writing or no need to defragment. After all, Zack Whittaker in his article proves that data stored on flash drives is vulnerable to corruption just by ... just not supplying power to this device for some time.

    The problem mainly concerns rooms that are not properly adapted to provide conditions suitable for storing such disks. We are talking mainly about the prevailing ambient temperature, because it turns out to be the main harmful factor. Depending on the temperature, files can last for several months, weeks, or at worst - just a few days.

    To illustrate the problem, Alvin Cox, the drive developer for Seagate, made a demo. It shows that the lifetime of stored data is reduced by half for each 5 ° C increase in ambient temperature. This means that at around 25 ° C the data will last approximately two years. In 30 degrees, this time will be reduced to only one year.

    However, the problem does not affect all disks in the same way - it depends on what quality shelf the medium is on. High-end computers can boast of high quality (laptops of all kinds - for example, Apple MacBooks), which offer a data retention time of about two years at an appropriate temperature. The situation is different with budget products - these are more sensitive to temperature than the high-end models, and here the problem is felt completely (an increase by 5 ° C reduces the average data storage time from 20 weeks to just 10). However, it should be remembered that if we use a given disk quite often, nothing should threaten us.

    Therefore, it is worth paying attention to the environment in which the SSD drive is located (nowadays this type of devices is more widespread in the consumer sector than in the professional sector - a thorough replacement of drives is an additional cost for the enterprise, and often these have special rooms for computers to they worked in optimal conditions) - for the security of their own data, and then not to worry where our family photos or films "escaped" to us.

    Source:

    http://www.zdnet.com/article/solid-state-disk...ta-if-left-without-power-for-just-a-few-days/

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    About Author
    Natsuki Kuga
    Level 13  
    Offline 
    Natsuki Kuga wrote 75 posts with rating 41, helped 8 times. Been with us since 2013 year.
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  • #2 14915437
    strikexp
    Level 27  
    Very helpful information, and I was so delighted with these disks ...
  • #3 14915448
    lemgo
    Level 15  
    "As is commonly known ..."
    Such mega-manipulation at the very beginning disqualifies the article immediately.
    Neither is "known" - because it is not so obvious, not subject to discussion, nor "universally".
  • #4 14915827
    teofil111
    Level 13  
    So this is another confirmation that SDD disks are good as a system disk, but the hard disk remains invariably for archiving terabytes of data.
  • #5 14915853
    Spid88
    Level 11  
    @lemgo
    Only that SSDs are the successors of HDDs. It is common knowledge, and "ordinary" people are aware of it. Yes, the technology requires improvement, it is commercially young, which does not change the fact that fast, roomy, durable, energy-saving, cool drives without moving parts are a destination.
  • #6 14916694
    timo66
    Level 23  
    So is the same thing for USB mass storage devices?
  • #7 14916714
    leonow32
    Level 30  
    timo66 wrote:
    So is the same thing for USB mass storage devices?

    After all, an SSD is roughly the same as a flash drive.
  • #8 14916780
    mkpl
    Level 37  
    I will ask otherwise ... I have a pendrive that is old and the data is as it was, I have an old mp3 somewhere that plays the music stored on it for a long time without any problems.

    Powering the memory itself does absolutely nothing! The memory would have to refresh (rewrite) for anything to do ...
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  • #9 14916893
    timo66
    Level 23  
    That's why I asked so stupidly. Because either I have a super stick that still has data after 5 years without electricity, or it is something else.


    Spreading panic?
  • #10 14917203
    ostrytomasz
    Level 24  
    timo66 wrote:
    That's why I asked so stupidly. Because either I have a super stick that still has data after 5 years without electricity, or it is something else.
    Spreading panic?


    Larger technological dimension than "modern" chips, MLC or SLC memory (once, even without ECC, the memory content was intact for years) and few erase / write cycles (retention time decreases with the number of cycles).
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  • #11 14917246
    lemgo
    Level 15  
    With these reports of the superiority of A over d B, or B over A - it depends a bit on what is going to come out. Somewhere I saw (unfortunately I do not remember the sources) a counter-report that it is not that bad, that the description covers a few specific technologies that SSD manufacturers know and have obtained remarkable improvements long ago.

    HDDs have their advantages, SSDs have their advantages. it is not that some are absolutely better (or at least not worse) than the other in all respects. The appetite for data storage is huge, cymbal manufacturers will give some of this cake to semiconductors, enough for everyone with at least a very decent profit.

    @ Spid88
    e-books were to be the successors of books, television was to be the successor of cinema, and there are countless examples. Both technologies are constantly developing and are complementary at best.
  • #12 14917857
    Setel
    Level 25  
    "e-books were to be the successors of books, television was to be the successor of cinema, there are countless examples. Both technologies are constantly evolving and are, at best, complementary."

    And with this statement, I would propose to end this topic.
  • #13 14917938
    Kużdo
    Level 20  
    teofil111 wrote:
    So this is another confirmation that SDD disks are good as a system disk, but the hard disk remains invariably for archiving terabytes of data.

    But it has long been known. Data archives have media that enable the longest possible storage time. We use SSDs where we need many fast operations, HDDs where we do something once in a while and are ideal as data archives.

    Added after 5 [minutes]:

    strikexp wrote:
    Very helpful information, and I was so delighted with these disks ...

    Information practically useless. SSD disks were not created for data archiving, they are to work in places where we need high speeds, many I / O operations and high bandwidth. The information is just as insignificant as the rumors that SSDs continue to break down quickly or that their place will eventually end. And in practice, that would mean writing> 50GB per day for 5 years . I will change the disk sooner, because it will be cheaper, with a better controller and more memory, and more memory means a longer service life.
  • #14 14917988
    SQLmaster
    Level 24  
    Natsuki Kuga wrote:
    Depending on the temperature, files can last for several months, weeks, or at worst - just a few days.

    Wait a minute .... how many millions of SSDs have already been sold? Hundreds of millions ... billions? And now someone is trying to tell us that these drives are losing data because someone has not turned on the computer for a week? And nobody noticed it before him? The system did not crash to anyone because, for example, one of the tens of thousands of * .dll files broke? After all, the internet would be noisy with 'grunts' that SSDs are useless ...

    Looks like this article is a stretch. But let me tell you why:

    He wrote it
    Quote:
    Alvin Cox, who creates drives at Seagate
    And what Seagate does:
    - Classic drives
    - And SSD disks, but either SATA for a few thousand zlotys or SAS for a few thousand zlotys.

    Hence, I am not surprised that Alvin Cox uses a marketing gimmick in style
    Quote:
    However, the problem does not affect all disks in the same way - it depends on what quality shelf the medium is on. High-end computers can boast of high quality (all kinds of laptops, for example, Apple MacBook), which they offer
    let me guess ... Seagate SSDs.

    So much for it gibberish Seagate marketing.

    Added after 10 [minutes]:

    Setel wrote:
    "e-books were to be the successors of books, television was to be the successor of cinema, there are countless examples. Both technologies are constantly evolving and are, at best, complementary."

    And with this statement, I would propose to end this topic.

    You know ... the car was supposed to be the successor to the horse stagecoach. And what, have you seen any other horse stagecoaches?
    The knife was to be the successor to the flint fist. And what? Have you ever seen a lady of the house elsewhere slicing tomatoes with a fist?
    So be careful with these comparisons because you can always find others :D
  • #15 14918384
    strikexp
    Level 27  
    Kużdo wrote:


    strikexp wrote:
    Very helpful information, and I was so delighted with these disks ...

    Information practically useless. SSD disks were not created for data archiving, they are to work in places where we need high speeds, many I / O operations and high bandwidth. The information is just as insignificant as the rumors that SSDs continue to break down quickly or that their place will eventually end. And in practice it would mean writing> 50GB per day for 5 years . I will change the disk sooner, because it will be cheaper, with a better controller and more memory, and more memory means a longer service life.


    If you are not using the drive as storage in a USB bay. If you're not carrying your laptop in a hot car. Unless you have several laptops and some are not used for several months. If you do not walk with your computer equipment in hot industrial halls. This is how this information is useless for you.
    For me, it is very important that the temperature has such a significant effect on the data storage time without power supply.
  • #16 14918424
    Kużdo
    Level 20  
    1. A USB flash drive is a portable drive and I use it to move data from one place to another. SSD disk is not a flash drive, HDD is used for archiving.
    2. Of course, this laptop has not been fired for 20 years - you cannot forget about it.
    3. Apparently they are not needed. In a corporation, laptops lying around are reinstalled before they are released - no problem. I do not see an example where a laptop lying in a warehouse for 2 years would suddenly be needed with its contents - a pointless argument.
    4. Of course, this room is 50 *, and I'm carrying a laptop that hasn't been fired for 2 years. Standard, everyday life ...

    The arguments are pointless as well as what I wrote earlier about the capacity of the disks and the number of possible writes.
  • #17 14918919
    Setel
    Level 25  
    SQLMaster: You write crap. None of your statements are true. I would recommend caution in reviewing endeavors ...
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  • #18 14918959
    SQLmaster
    Level 24  
    Setel wrote:
    SQLMaster: You write crap. None of your statements are true. I would recommend caution in reviewing endeavors ...

    Oh. You presented great arguments to support your thesis :)
  • #19 14919550
    VaM VampirE
    Level 22  
    The SSD disk in the Asus EEE900 netbook was lying in the drawer for three years, without the battery, because in these netbooks the battery fell after a year, he had no problem when I fired windows 7 that I installed there for fun, I do not remember the password, but the system boots.

    Dell's 32GB SSD disk in my nas, which I couldn't finish for a year or so, also worked, Debian took off.
    Maybe how to heat them, something would change, but when I was over 30 degrees in my apartment in the summer, somehow the discs did not bother.

    In general, I have been using ssd drives from the very beginning of their existence on the market, from Adata to Intel.
    I have never encountered data from them disappearing.
    In laptops, pre-installed systems on SSDs start without problems, despite the fact that laptops are in stocks and are bought on sales as last year's models, with the battery discharged to zero. I doubt if the warehouses are air-conditioned halls with 20 degrees Celsius in the summer.

    How scared I was some time ago of these rumors, I did not find any confirmation of their truthfulness by stinging on my equipment.
  • #20 14919701
    Setel
    Level 25  
    Out of personal curiosity and to cite a specific example on this forum, I found the SunDisk card I wrote down in 2000 and put aside. All data remained intact, even though the card had been in the box for more than 14 years.
  • #21 14919852
    SQLmaster
    Level 24  
    Setel wrote:
    Out of personal curiosity and to cite a specific example on this forum, I found the SunDisk card I wrote down in 2000 and put aside. All data remained intact, despite the fact that the card had been in the box for more than 14 years.


    The problem is that 14 years ago they were made in a much 'coarse' technology. So what was solid and certain in the technology, e.g. 300nm, is not necessarily so certain in today's 15nm technology. In addition, older flash drives / memory cards most often use SLC cells (1 bit per transistor), which are 10 times more durable. SSD and newer memory cards use MLC cells (multiple bits / floating gates per transistor). Fast, more densely packed, but less durable.

    Going to the details (because I was interested in the problem), Samsung, Intel and Seagate for their SSDs guarantee no less than a 3-month period of data maintenance without power
    http://www.samsung.com/us/pdf/memory-storage/840PRO_25_SATA_III_Spec.pdf
    http://www.seagate.com/www-content/product-co...ssd-fam/600-pro-ssd/en-us/docs/100727924b.pdf
    http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/u.../product-specifications/ssd-dc-s3700-spec.pdf
    (Intel emphasizes that this applies to an extremely pessimistic case, i.e. a disk at the limit of wear and held at 40 ° C, so I think we can normally expect much better performance here).

    So, losing data in a few days is more like fairy tales. The problem of losing not earlier than after 3 months is basically negligible, because buying an expensive SSD drive in order not to use it later is as likely as the fact that someone will voluntarily throw PLN 400 into the toilet, flush and smile. And it makes a similar sense.

    In addition, valuable data should be kept in several copies anyway. Each disk can break down, and if it does not break, the data will be accidentally destroyed by the user or a virus (99% of cases). The backup technologies that I use are, for example, the LTO tape has a life of 30 years and almost 100% of the cases when I had to use it to recover data, it was the user's fault and not a failure of a disk (several hundred restores due to the user's fault and one (!) Case when the RAID array has crashed).
  • #22 14920032
    Setel
    Level 25  
    SQLmaster: full agreement this time. :-)
    I also checked the hard disk used in 1995 and some floppy disks from that period. Everything was easy to read. I still have a few old, large floppy disks, but I don't have anything to recreate them on ...
  • #23 14920511
    11111olo
    Level 42  
    I couldn't actually read the flash drives that I didn't use for a long time (only the format).
    With SSD it's not as bad as they say. Maybe they lose data after a year or two if they are not used at all. However, this is against logic. Why buy an SSD that will stay on the shelf for a year or two?
    The second thing is SSD durability. After two years of intensive use, the disc must be replaced.
  • #24 14920596
    Kużdo
    Level 20  
    11111olo wrote:
    After two years of intensive use, the disk should be replaced.

    What does the word "intense" mean? The current SSDs for private customers (not for server applications) have a manufacturer's warranty for about 5 years of data storage and that is 40GB of data daily all year round, for 5 years. So I don't know what intensity of use you are talking about.
  • #25 14920694
    11111olo
    Level 42  
    Kużdo wrote:
    The current SSDs for private customers have a manufacturer's warranty for about 5 years of data storage, with the size of 40 GB of data daily all year round, for 5 years.


    I don't know what producer you are writing about.
    I do not understand what's going on. Is it for a year or 5 years? Decide.

    40GB of data a day is not an astronomical amount. What if I save 100GB a day?
  • #26 14920805
    Kużdo
    Level 20  
    You did not answer my question.

    This applies to almost every manufacturer. He writes almost because I am not familiar with the offer of every producer. I will give an example of two manufacturers:
    The first is Crucial. I have a BX100 250GB drive myself. Link to the specification .
    SSDs lose data with prolonged power outages

    And the other is the Samsung EVO 850. Link to the specification .
    SSDs lose data with prolonged power outages

    I hope you can understand how it counts after the screenshots. You have a guarantee, for example, for saving 72TB of data, i.e. to save so much data, you would have to save 40GB of data daily for a whole year for a period of 5 years (40 * 465 * 5). And let me remind you, this is a WARRANTY, not how long the drive will work. It can run over those 72TB of write. If you save 100GB a day, 72TB will run out after about 2 years, but no private user will be saving 100GB a day, every day, for 2 years ... And then you can buy e.g. MX200 1TB and you have a 320TB guarantee, or 175GB a day for 5 years.
  • #27 14921292
    SQLmaster
    Level 24  
    Kużdo wrote:
    You have a guarantee, for example, for saving 72TB of data, i.e. to save so much data, you would have to save 40GB of data daily (...) for a period of 5 years (40 * 465 * 5). (...) If you save 100GB a day, you will run out of 72TB after about 2 years


    It should be mentioned here that according to Google research from 10 years ago, for classic HDDs the situation looks like this:
    - 1.7% of classic drives breaks down in the first year after the launch
    - but in the third year this parameter jumps up to 8.5%
    Link

    Much newer research ( Link ) thousands of drives showed that the results are similar to those obtained by Google. 22% of them broke down within 4 years.

    In this light, SSD wear is a lesser evil anyway.
  • #28 14921318
    Kużdo
    Level 20  
    That is why RAIDs and backups have always been used. There is no substitute for a backup copy.
  • #29 14921327
    11111olo
    Level 42  
    I have had RAID10 for several years and all disks were new and from the same series from the beginning. After about 8 thousand. one hours I had to replace. The others are still in operation today.

    In fact, even the manufacturer does not know why the disks fail, even if they are used "as the book writes".
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Topic summary

SSDs, while faster and more efficient than traditional HDDs, face data retention issues during prolonged power outages, particularly influenced by ambient temperature. Alvin Cox from Seagate demonstrated that data lifespan decreases significantly with rising temperatures, halving for every 5 °C increase. Users noted that SSDs are suitable for system operations but not ideal for long-term data archiving, where HDDs remain preferable. Concerns were raised about the reliability of SSDs compared to older flash memory technologies, with some users sharing personal experiences of data retention over extended periods. The discussion highlighted the importance of proper storage conditions and the need for backups, regardless of the storage medium used.
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