Home automation - Deimic One vs Sonoff, which to choose?

I am about to build a house - for the time being, just the paperwork. I thought that already at this stage (adapting the design) I could think about some kind of amenities, such as temperature management, roller shutters, lights or informing about open doors or gates. It's not meant to be some super advanced system for managing everything (even the toilet flush). Just the basics.
As there is a Deimic company in my area, I took a closer look at their solution (Deimic One). I can't hide the fact that it meets all my expectations both as a system and in terms of simplicity of construction and configuration and operation. I would add that, as terminal equipment, there is no need to buy special switches etc specifically for the control system. Regular switches are sufficient. The same applies to the sockets.
Communication is via YDY and UTP 5e cables. The only thing that makes everything perfect is the price. The price for the master module plus 10 sensors is almost 9,000 EUR.... Quite a lot.

I also thought about Sonoff switches but that's a bit too little. On top of that, the control goes through a system that is somewhere in the cloud and I would prefer to avoid that.

I've reviewed the Z-Wave solution but from what I've read it requires dedicated switches at a cosmic price (over £200 per switch). Probably not just switches....

I am a computer scientist with an electrical qualification. I've had a bit of contact with automation so wiring and installation is not a problem. Just which system to choose...

The cheapest way out would be the Raspberry Pi from Domoticz -> Link and possibly the MySensors gateway and receivers -> Link

If you have an it/electronics jam, see projects like OpenHab, Supla - you can handle the aforementioned Sonoff modules from their level, but with your own firmware (not connecting to the cloud). Also think about whether you will want to integrate such a system with, for example, an alarm control panel.

With both the Raspberry Pi/Arduino, do you have to create a separate installation for the control as with the Deimic (based on UTP cables) or can you use the wiring of the electrical installation?

Hi, also check out hager or zamela solutions.

Sickboy wrote:

Whether or not with the Raspberry Pi/Arduino you need to create a separate installation for control as with the Deimic

Yes, you do need to. Unless you're going to control wirelessly, but that's pointless, because if you're putting up a new house, it's better to lay some wires than rely on wireless communication, which can be unreliable. A simple twisted pair cable is enough to have communication and power for the modules. And Arduino and RPi is a pretty good combination, but it takes some playing around.

OpenSource systems can work over cable and wirelessly.
I, for example, have OpenHab integrated with everything over IP - alarm, sonoff modules and some proprietary ones (e.g. raspberry connected to the boiler). Historically, I still have wireless mysensors (measuring current, temperature, humidity, LED dimmers) and one 1wire bus (a 6-strand straight cable from the alarm unit).
As for Zamel - it's worth waiting, as they have moves taking place that may have influenced their approach to home automation - they have started working with the supla project.

Okay, to recap - I still have some time. I'll test different solutions - I'll buy a raspberry and a few modules from different manufacturers and see what works for me.
For now, I'll start planning the installation. Just in case, I will lay both 3-wire and UTP cables in a star topology. If I don't find a good solution, I'll do a good old electrical installation and it will work too.

Does the UTP cable have to be special? Deimic advises that the cable should be unshielded copper.

Unshielded is ok. However, think about separate cables for the alarm system - Satel, for example, does not recommend twisted pair.

I myself use and recommend Openhab.
The main advantage - OH can be integrated with a huge number of devices, I have integrated:
- Satel integra 128 (via ETH)
- 3 x Sonos
- roller shutters (z-wave)
- lights, sockets (z-wave)
- intercom (doorbird)
- weather (online data)
- 2x air-conditioning (samsung model with WIFI)
- UPS (via USB)

OH is running on a DELL server at my place, but due to noise, I plan to switch to RPI in the near future

There is terrible interference at my place too just, could it be to do with the server?

I recommend the Polish project nettemp.pl
There are many interesting solutions, many things supported.

Hello,
In my case, the control of roller shutters and several light points in the house via the Satel 128 WRL control panel and expanders did not work. Flash memory errors are occurring more and more frequently.

pcxelja wrote:

Hello,
In my case the control of roller shutters and several light points in the house via the Satel 128 WRL control panel and expanders has failed. Flash memory errors are becoming more frequent.

can you elaborate on this? i thought this was a fairly reliable solution.

kuch_arc wrote:

can you elaborate on that? i thought it was a fairly reliable solution.

At my house I have 12 roller shutters and 5 circuits in the living room for control. For control I would have to use a module from Satel which did not suit me (I did a survey in 2015).
Initially I controlled the blinds with a regular bell switch and the lights with a remote control. I was in the process of finishing the house so I was cutting costs.
In between, the control panel crashed (known memory module error of one series). The control unit was repaired under guarantee. I wanted to be able to control the roller shutters from my phone. Satel supplied an application which presented a keypad which I could use to control them. A bit of a flimsy solution. I haven't checked how it looks now, maybe something has changed.

Hello colleagues, far be it from me to litter the forum so let me ask a similar question in this thread. I, too, am in the process of building a small single-storey house (about 100m) and, unfortunately, have somewhat temporarily missed the moment of deeper thinking about how to add some automation to the new dwelling and now I have to make a decision a little at a time. And I don't want to make a bad decision

I'm keen to control the roller shutters (6 of them), lights in the house and garden lights, the entrance gate and CCTV. The directions are two: Fibaro (or something on a wave) or building on wires. The electrician scares me a bit with the cost and complexity of a twisted-pair system. I could easily handle the software for a Tiny and e.g. domoticz, but I'm completely in the dark when it comes to electrics and electronics, so what if the modules cost about 50PLN, when someone will have to connect them together every time so that I don't let the house go up in smoke.

Help with advice

Primo - give deep tins everywhere to accommodate modules.

You can control roller shutters with one system, e.g. FF, ZAMEL or any other.
Heating control - another system, using radio programmers with a GSM gateway.
Monitoring - separately.

If you want to have it all in one, together with the alarm, I use ROPAM. The biggest problem is that there are very few inputs and outputs on the control panel, and up to 5 thermostats

It is safe to run a 6x05 cable to each control point of the roller shutters, light switch, temperature regulator, then you are protected.

twisted-pair cable is cheap - pull a twisted-pair cable to the cameras and you don't have to think about what you put on it.

kuch_arc wrote:

Primo - give deep tins everywhere to fit modules.

the deep boxes are already planned - the bigger problem for me is taking the direction of cable or the hated wireless and inventions like Fibaro. Then there's the size of the UTP cupboard. The boiler room is tiny, but the cupboard for the automation system is big enough. Initially, I thought it would be possible to separate the electrical system in the boiler room and the automation system in the attic, which is not used, but as it turns out, it's not that simple.

Snooping around the forum, one user very wisely wrote quote.
"I have an extensive system (something over 100 terminal devices). A couple of life events have given me some thoughts on the matter - well, no one but me can service it. No one in the house or any service technician, even though all the components come from the same manufacturer.
I also have some homemade solutions - e.g. integration with the gate or intercom.
Messing around with all this is fun - but for me, not for others. It's important to keep that in mind."

Running the cables is still a drop in the cost of the whole investment, it's just a question of whether this isn't form over substance for someone without eletric-electronic skills.

Erbit wrote:

I was going to write this too

well that's what I thought might have been yours - should have that paragraph pinned somewhere. Returning to the topic for a moment (I hope the author doesn't report me) aside from the fact that I've clearly overslept with the home intelligence (electrician coming in 3-4 weeks) I'd like to make the best decision possible. Nowadays it's hard to justify fibaro reasonably if you read "building a new smart home without UTP is stupid" in every other comment. If the house was big... but at my place there is 97m of living space, 4 rooms, 7 windows, 6 roller shutters to handle. Initially, the expensive Fibaro would cost me 5 - 6 thou (control unit + a dozen or so modules). The electrician estimated that the labour alone to connect the system to UTP would amount to PLN 1,500 - 2 thousand

@Erbit
and can you roughly cite (because I somehow couldn't find it anywhere in the posts) why the higher percentage is wireless though? I continue to look for an argument for cabling and somehow for the average "Janus" I cannot find one. And to the statement "cable is cable after all" I rather smile

Erbit wrote:

Generalizing: the radio is not immune to interference and this is the reason you hear: cable, cable, cable.

well yes, and that's the reason :/ except that as you mentioned - when something goes wrong you sit and cry.... at Fibari you sit and pay Generalizing after all, would you recommend a cable at the SSO stage to a person who is not very good with electrics and electronics?

Erbit wrote:

I don't know to what extent you want to do this home automation so it's difficult for me to comment.

nothing more than what is considered here on the forum as automation basics:
- roller shutter management (mainly opening, closing schedules),
- lighting management (similar to blinds schedules),
- sensors: movement, smoke, temp
- opening/closing of gates.

and that's pretty much it... of all the intelligence. Fibaro is so easy to use that I won't need an installer to do it, I may just need to fit modules in sockets while laying the electrics. The cable system is a completely different story as far as the level of sophistication is concerned, because a layman without electrical knowledge has nothing to look for.

Erbit wrote:

As I see it you have already made up your mind

sadly mistaken impression, simply by entering the discussion I had to take a point - and whether it was the right one I am just trying to establish, or convince myself. You know how it is with forum "Joes" the best way is for someone to tell them YES is the best solution or NO is a poor solution. At this point I even envy a bit those who for some reason have been condemned in advance to one or the other solution - a few less grey hairs on the chin

Erbit wrote:

you are an excellent example of the fact that sometimes aspects other than e.g. the "betterness or worseness" of a transmission type are important.

actually, I don't know whether this is a compliment or a kind of sarcasm