Building a DIY Smart Home: Comparing Grenton, ABB Free@Home for Wired Systems & Essential Controls

Hello!
I am at the stage of building a house and I want to make a smart home. I am looking for a wired system and most importantly so that I can program it myself. I am interested in controlling roller shutters, water underfloor heating, entrance and garage gates, lighting and a videophone. I want to do the installations so that I can temporarily turn everything on traditionally and only then retrofit it with the appropriate drivers. The price is also important, but if I can add modules one at a time, there will be a larger budget. So far I have read about Grenton and ABB free @ home. Abb has the advantage of having its own room thermostats and the ability to connect a videophone.
You have some experience with these companies and what else can you recommend.

If you want everything-everything (mainly the integrated alarm alarm and video intercom) I recommend Nexo. The function of the thermostats is in the touch buttons. Grenton is also nice, only a little "poorer". But it is also constantly evolving, so new functionalities will be available soon. You will program both systems yourself with a little "mathematical" wisdom.

I have to read about this company. We are not planning an alarm. When it comes to programming, I had some automation when I finished the electrical technical school.

I have read a bit about the Nexo system and one thing that scares me is the large number of modules in the switchboard. But I found the Loxone company - can someone comment on it?

You still have Fibaro.

Fibaro is wireless if I'm not mistaken? I am looking for something on the wires because I will only be doing the installation.

Yes, it is wireless, each subsequent device acts as a repeater.

sosarek wrote:

Yes, it is wireless, each subsequent device acts as a repeater.

From what I remember, Fibaro uses Z-Wave and full-mesh connections / topology. Retransmissions (in Fibaro) can be made either by switchboards (they probably had 2 types) or by any device powered from the mains, but certainly not battery powered.

After all, I am not interested in the radio station. Now houses have more steel than concrete, so don't use wireless towers.

I have installed Fibaro several times and I had no problems.

However, I'm still looking for a wired system. I also found Loxone - it has a lot of data transmission possibilities, but probably no buttons. I am tempted by KNX but I'm afraid that 20 devices from the demo version may not be enough for me.

Were you looking at Zamel?

ronuch wrote:

I have read a bit about the Nexo system and one thing that scares me is the large number of modules in the switchboard. But I found the Loxone company - can someone comment on it?

Number of modules = constant - if you use a different system, the number of modules in the switchgear will be the same or similar - minimal differences in the design of the modules - its dimensions and number of supported inputs / outputs.
Perhaps you thought about flush-mounted modules - then the number of devices in the switchgear will be reduced by those in flush-mounted boxes located throughout the apartment (the Nexo system also has them), but if you have the possibility, build a centralized system, in one cabinet you have everything, possibilities and comfort of work , possible repairs, extensions, much better than box-packed modules with wires, connecting cubes, etc.
As for programming - so far I have not come across a system that would be simpler than Nexo, everything is also a matter of practice and practice.

Kol Kasprzyk, of course, I want to have everything in the switchboard (I do not want to hear every now and then clicking on the wall. In the description you say that you deal with intelligent buildings - what systems do you install?
I initially want to use traditional switches and only gradually buy an ID. All lamps and blinds will be led to the switching station.

This is a complicated process. If you want to prepare the installation in this way, you have to take into account additional costs, space for the initial connection of wires, a lot of time devoted to reworking the target installation, it may be associated with a mess in the switchgear.
The great thing about IB are programmable circuit breakers - that's why it's very complicated when you want to use traditional ones at the beginning.
You would have to start by identifying each detail that interests you, drawing a project with the exact location of each electrical point, control, detector, etc.
Knowing the amount of resources, the number and type of modules in the switchgear will be selected, I have never prepared the installation like this, but I imagine it so that I draw each target module on the TH bus in the switchboard with a place to connect PE, N, L, in module site temporary relays - later there will be less work and more order after using the target system.

I just want to pull all the receivers, i.e. lamps, blinds, and cables from the distributor heads to the switchboard, and the same switches from these receivers. In IB, I want to make only the ground floor (I do not have an attic, but an attic, but the basement will be clean in a traditional installation.
I am afraid that the cost of the switches and modules for the switchgear will be so high that at the beginning I will not have enough money for the whole thing. That's why I thought to give the traditional cable plus the main one. But this is where the problem begins, because almost every system has different bus requirements.

Welcome to the forum, the smart home system (3 pcs. Plc Sterbox controllers) and additional modules with relays, 2 pcs. Per sterbox. Programming, connection and electrical installation made by me. Lighting control in the house (each room) and outside (house, garden, access). Controlling watering the garden, controlling the home theater (i.e. lowering the projector and the screen hidden in the suspended ceiling), underfloor heating (8 rooms in each of them, the temperature sensor activates the appropriate solenoid valves on the manifolds, pumps and gas stove - each room turns on independently that is, it does not heat up all at once, only where the temperature drops below the set temperature - excellent savings in heating). Control of roller shutters and gates (entrance and garage) as well as several sockets inside and outside.
In addition, a Zamel rs485 translator is installed for wireless control - use in the future when it is necessary to control additional devices. At present, he uses it to control light scenes in the living room
(RGB LED strip) and kitchen furniture lighting (RGB LED strip) - 2 Zamel RGB LED wireless receivers.
You can also control it manually using a tablet, smartphone or computer in a web browser. All information about the operation of sterboxes appear on the website that was created by me.

Link to the old version of control panels:
https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic3222726-30.html post microtomi

link to the manufacturer's website the latest driver and expansion module full pasture plc drivers for smart home: https://sterbox.eu/index.php/sklep/product/view/1/152, https://sterbox.eu/index.php / shop / product / view / 1/153

Connection diagrams for sterboxes:







The new look of the control panels and a few changes compared to the previous panels that can be found in the link above:







Switchgear:

Even this Sterbox is nice, but a terrible amount of cables (each button with a separate cable) I will rather look for something on the bus.

How about AMPIO?

At the bus, you have the risk of damaging it, short-circuiting it, opening it or even breaking it up to 230V. Not many systems can cope with it, and you usually have to break down the walls and look for problems anyway.

I have eHouse LAN with Ethernet room controllers. With a lot of points per room, it is definitely worth it. Can be purchased for self-assembly with or without relays (they are separate).
The controllers are galvanically separated from each other, so there are no such threats as in the case of the main bus.

They have several dozen smart points (relay outputs, on / off inputs, measuring inputs, infrared receiver / transmitter, 12VDC PWM dimmers).
The firmware provides definitions of light scenes, heating programs, schedule-calendar, infrared code databases, infrared broadcasting (control of a / v equipment) and control from a sony infrared remote control.

Low-voltage installations are made with IDC flat tapes, so it comes out much easier than bundles of cables.

Applications for configuration, communication and sample communication source codes are provided (e.g. for raspberrypi, java, delphi).
Room controllers are autonomous and, after being configured, work independently. you can also add an application to run control commands to execute dedicated algorithms.

you can also create a standalone visualization in corelDraw
Functions can be extended with WiFi controllers where it is not worth pulling cables


here are the drivers:
Building Automation Ethernet

Information Do it yourself, self-assembly, design:
eHouse Ethernet DIY

Hello
However, I find Sterbox much easier to program. It is enough to deepen a little knowledge about it, the installation is less complicated as a colleague wrote about the bus. The latest sterbox plus expansion modules have many control options. I am not writing this because I would like to recommend it, but I already have an earlier version of the sterbox for over 3 years and everything works fine.



This is what the cabinet looks like after the modifications (i.e. the 3 power supplies have been removed and replaced with 1 more powerful 12 volt 7.5 amps, and a Wi-Fi router has been added to increase the range outside the building). As you can see in the photo above, the newest sterbox will be added to the free space, which will control other sterboxes and rel. for its speed, a website for controlling and reading messages will be created on it.
I greet everyone
https://sterbox.eu/index.php/sklep/product/view/1/152, https://sterbox.eu/index.php/sklep/product/view/1/153

The use of installations for a central switchgear as in a sterbox has advantages and disadvantages (the advantages are obvious), however, the expenditure on cables and installations is several times greater - it takes kilometers in the building. The service and assembly of the switchgear is also not so simple as you need to replace something.

I had eHouse since 2004, the version on the RS-485 serial bus - broken into rooms (12 mini-switchboards in the rooms or next to it), cables automatically go 3-5 times less. The drivers are separated from the relays so when the relay falls, you don't have to fire everything, only the relay itself.

In 2008 I upgraded the eHouse system (even though it still worked) to newer Ethernet ones - They work another 9 years and so far.
Recently, I expanded the system with eHouse PRO to the central switchboard (but only for alarm detectors and roller shutters), other things, in my opinion, there is nothing to complicate and reduce to the central switchboard.

In the case of, say, 128 output points and 128 input points, the central switching stations are monstrously large and these cables have to be stuffed somehow (1m * 1.2m, excluding any fuses).
When someone makes a smart home "ala 'block" and 10 lighting circuits, it may not hurt that much, but with larger quantities we go into costs and complicate the installation, and it is worth remembering about possible simple service.

You can and Yes :
Intelligent house. For a central switchgear
Everything runs on a Linux server and you can program and integrate yourself

Hello
Maybe you're right, but sterbox has its firmware not on debian or other linux .. but not everyone knows linux. The sterbox can also be integrated and programmed on its own and of course it also has an rs485 bus port so it can be used as I did for wireless control, so it does not have to be expensive in cabling.



You can also use separate relays:

[img] http: //obrazki.elektroda .pl / 3560752100_1498257258_thumb.jpg [/ img]

eHouse is not cheaper than a sterbox, the price for the server itself is too high compared to the latest sterbox + expansion module:

Do you take a picture of the switchboard and put it in here? The main thing for me is not to pull the cable from each switch to the switchboard, in addition, I want to have a temperature measurement in each room. For example, the knx system (reluctantly expensive) works on the bus and no one mentions that such a system is difficult to find faults on the bus.

I don't have any access right now, I'm on a long vacation, here's a DIY link:
installation of a room switchboard with measurements, regulations, relays with din / th rail sockets, 3 PWM dimmers, 12V / 100W power supply, switch inputs.
I have a separate one in each room or next to it (+ kitchens, bathrooms). There are much fewer cables (about 5 times less) than for the central one, the segments are galvanically separated:
Smart House eHouse LAN DIY room controllers.

For the central switchboard you can:
building automation to central switchboards

There is no serial bus in LAN mini-switchboards.
- Here, when one segment is damaged (room - no matter how seriously), others work independently, each has an autonomous room controller
- ethernet is on the transformer (galvanic isolation)
- the power supply is galvanically isolated
- installation is limited to single rooms (5+ times less 230V cables
- low voltage switch cables are much cheaper than electric ones (Flat tapes)
- natural division of the system into rooms
- 35/49 intelligent points included in the price of the switchboard (on / off outputs, on / off inputs, measuring inputs, infrared inputs + outputs, dimmers) in one word full grazing not to be used
- lighting scenes for each room (24)
- regulation and measurement programs for each room (12)
- infrared codes database for switchgear control (248)
- infrared codes database for controlling external a / v equipment (248)
- planner calendar in the controller (128 items)
- windows software for driver configuration (free)
- java software for visualization and graphic control from a PC (free)
- Android software for visualization and graphic control tablets, smartphones, smarttv (free)
- the server also allows you to access the website

The system is integrated with eHouse controllers WiFi home automation
Although I personally think that it is pure stupidity to plan wireless solutions at the unfinished stage.
Solutions for switchgear are long-lived, not aging compared to modules stuffed in electrical boxes (I have a system for over a dozen years and nothing happens). The relays are for a din rail with sockets - you can replace one, not the whole controller.
Isolation between electronics and 230V over 40mm - in 15mm cans is a miracle (the standards provide for 7.5mm).
The radio will sooner or later lose its parameters (2-3 years), it will start to overheat, capacitors will fail, etc. due to miniaturization. In addition, the electronics are at small distances between 230V and not much needs to be done to cause serious problems, including fire.
Sometimes you need wireless, but this is the last resort when the house is already painted, finished and we are looking for "B plans".

As I wrote, I had the eHouse RS-485 system on the serial bus and it worked for many years. Despite this, as an electronics engineer, I realized that the damage to the bus (interruption, short circuit, breakdown to 230V, lightning, etc.) would create great problems with the finishing of all drivers, including. That's why I switched to Ethernet when it was the first promotion.

Hello, after a long break. Home installation almost ready, but unfortunately without "intelligence". One thing I did was to prepare the blinds for central control from the switchboard. If I would like to make everything controllable, I would make kilometers of cables. Thank you to everyone for your interest and sharing your knowledge.

And you've wondered about this:
http://www.fhome.pl/pl/system-pociągowy.html

Well, an interesting system, just as interesting as the price - I have to look.

Quote:

And you've wondered about this:
http://www.fhome.pl/pl/system-pociągowy.html

I used ~ 60 controllable circuits in the new F & Radio building, overall I am satisfied, the configuration options are basically not limited. I just don't know if it's the same when configuring a wired system.

Question to col @microtomi
How is the temperature measurement in the rooms organized?
Does the sterbox have problems with the capacity of the "program"?
How many circuits in total can be handled by one sterbox in the maximum expansion option and how much does it take on the din rail because it can be divided only once from what I can see.
It is possible to integrate the sterbox somehow via ethernet, i.e. is it open to this communication channel, how would you want to pass some signal from the script on the router that will trigger an event inside the sterbox without interfering with the web interface? Because it would probably be possible to pass something through GET parameters, how to figure it out, but there is a huge amount of these interface pages?


What are the elements on the contacts of the sterbox, external sparking protection?

These input encoders are definitely a nice feature. On the other hand, the question whether the long lines of the twisted pair and the coexistence of different signals there on different pairs of different signals cause some distortions of the signals, for example, is there a disco?