Hunter PGV solenoid valve control in the Integra system - how to set it up?

Hello
For automatic watering of the garden there will be (in my opinion) installed:
Hunter 1 PGV 100GB solenoid valves - 6 pieces.
RM85 relay modules with 12VDC coil - 6 pieces.
To control the Integra.
I can drive this with a low current output? I understand that without having a rain or humidity sensor I can base the switching of valves on the logic of the product of valve actuation and timers. How do I set this up so that the sections switch on sequentially? Let's say every ten minutes.
I want to make it fairly simple, without any major embellishments. Unfortunately I'm not very strong at this.
In your opinion does this make sense, or does it generally suck?

It will work, as for the logic, if you describe specifically what and how it should work, we will help you set it up.
Personally, instead of relays connected to the outputs, I would use INT-ORS in this case.

f1

masgar wrote:

I understand that by not having a rain or humidity sensor I can base valve switching on the logic of the product of valve actuation and timers.

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You can rely on Timers alone, you set the output the valve is connected to as a Timer and program the rest in Timer times.
For example Timer 1 07:00 to 07:10, Timer 2 07:10 to 07:20, Timer 3 07:20 to 07:30 etc.
You would have to do the logic if you had a rain sensor, or you still wanted to control it manually from buttons, for example.

I've had such a system in place for a couple of years now, it's worth adding a rain sensor, Hunter's Rain Cick is simple, reliable, requires no power and you can connect it directly to the integra input, or plug it into the valve supply.

I will say this. I have an Integra but for watering the garden I bought a Rain Bird controller.
I don't know the specifications of the Hunter valves.
I think if you used the Rain Bird valves I know, what the previous writers suggest would definitely not work.
My advice. Buy a watering controller for £200-300 and save yourself the trouble.
I don't even want to write about calculating the capacity of the water source and the demand of sprinklers or drippers....

Jan_Werbinski wrote:

I think if you used the Rain Bird valves I know, what the pre-writers are suggesting would definitely not work.

Can you elaborate on this statement, some description of this valve, model type, type of control?
I've had my irrigation control done on an Integra for a few years now and I don't see any negatives to this solution.

Added after 1 [minute]: .

Jan_Werbinski wrote:

My advice. Buy a watering controller for £200-300 and save yourself the trouble.
I don't even want to write about calculating the capacity of the water source and the need for sprinklers or drippers....

I understand that buying a dedicated controller will solve the capacity and water demand problem.

kood wrote:

Personally, instead of relays connected to the outputs, I would use INT-ORS in this case.

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This module has 8 relay outputs so would be ideal. Well I hadn't thought of it.

alster1 wrote:

This arrangement has worked for me for a couple of years now, it's worth adding a rain sensor, Hunter's Rain Cick is simple, reliable, requires no power and you can connect it directly to the integra input, or plug it into the valve supply.

Yes the sensor I will apply, but later. At the moment it would not be used.

kood wrote:

It will work, as for the logic, if you specifically describe what and how it is supposed to work then we will help set it up.

Ok, thanks.
The plot of land is 100 km from my current residence. The garden needs to be watered and daily attendance is not possible at the moment. Building a watering system would take care of the issue of watering the garden remotely. The way I see it. I check the weather and if there has been no rain then I start the watering system remotely. Here, I need to figure it out so that the sections run in sequence with timers.
The timers would work if there was no interference from me (non-rainy weather). Let's say they would be set for early morning hours. The integra would have the task of starting the watering sections one by one.
However, I would also like to be able to decide myself when to start the irrigation. Either pause the timers or start the system at another time not based on timers. Ultimately, I would still like to see this on the cameras.
I mixed up what. The way I see it. I feel bad for the garden, and it's probably doable.

Added after 4 [minutes]: .

Jan_Werbinski wrote:

My advice. Buy a watering controller for £200-300 and save yourself the trouble.
I don't even want to write about calculating the capacity of the water source and the need for sprinklers or drippers...

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Water source - from a deep well. Will work. The control is to be at a distance and having an Integra this is reasonable.

This can be done without any problems.
You must have Timers.
An output to lock the sprinklers (bistable switch).
Outputs (bistable switch) to manually switch on the sprinklers.
For this you need to add logic.
What kind of integration do you have? Some virtual outputs will be needed.

masgar wrote:

Here I need to figure it out so that the sections in turn run timed.
The timers would work if there was no interference from me (non-rainy weather). Let's say they would be set for early morning hours. The integra would run the watering sections one by one.

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The way I see it:
to output 20 you have the first section connected, you set it as a mono switch with an operating time of 10 minutes
output 21 second section, type output end of output signalling time 10 minutes control output 20
output 22 third section, type end of outputs signalling, duration 10 minutes control output 21
etc.

you activate output 20 by timer/sms/application/manual button etc. to this you add logic so that output 20 is not activated when any of the sections is working.

How do you implement stopping or shortening irrigation if it has rained in recent days? A £200 controller has such functions.
What about correcting for minus if the soil is wet or for plus if it is sunny and windy? A microwave soil moisture sensor is + about £700.
How about reducing the amount of water because the forecast predicts rainfall or you want to control from your phone? +£300.
What do you power the solenoid valves with? This is built into a £150 controller.

Jan_Werbinski wrote:

How do you implement stopping or shortening irrigation if it has rained in recent days? Such functions have a controller for 200 zł.
What about correcting for minus if the soil is wet or for plus if it is sunny and windy? A microwave soil moisture sensor is + about £700.
How about reducing the amount of water because the forecast predicts rainfall or you want to control from your phone? +£300.
What do you power the solenoid valves with? That's built into a £150 controller.

Fellow author was asking about something else:

masgar wrote:

I want to make it fairly simple, without any major embellishments.

Probably it will be enough for him if there is timer control + possibility of manual on/off remotely, which is as much as possible to be realised on the Integra.

kood wrote:

I see it like this:

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I already have a lot to analyse. Thanks. I'll sleep on it.
Let me hear from you, colleagues, if in doubt.
Greetings.
PS. Thanks for your help.

Jan_Werbinski wrote:

How do you implement stopping or shortening irrigation if it has rained in recent days?

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This is done for me by the rain sensor.

Jan_Werbinski wrote:

What about adjusting for minus if the soil is wet or for plus if it is sunny and windy

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I can edit Timers or turn off, turn on individual sprinklers from the app or TSI manipulator.

Jan_Werbinski wrote:

What do you power the solenoid valves with?

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From the free tapping of the control panel transformer.

Because of the large area and the limitation in the capacity of the water source I have 12 sections at my place, @Jan_Werbinski very please show me a controller that can handle 12 sections, has control from the phone and locally from two places costs 500 zł and has the possibility of any configuration of times and the possibility of expansion.
I am still waiting for a description of the Rainbird valves, I am extremely curious as to why they cannot be controlled from the Integra control panel.

Are you using the same transformer to power the control panel and solenoid valves?
12 sections is already over £1,000.

kood wrote:

you activate output 20 with a timer/sms/app/manipulator/hand button etc. for this, make up the logic so that output 20 is not switched on when any of the sections are working.

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I've analysed this and I think I've figured out what's going on (or it just seems that way to me). The first section - mono reaction starts working and after a certain amount of time after completion, the second section comes on as reaction 83. The next sections are also reaction type 83. The last section has watered itself down and the issue is over. Until the next start-up, peace and quiet. From what I understand the timer only needs one, daily, because the rest of the sections react when the previous one finishes.
This way I can water the garden every morning without interference from me - the timer.
Now on with that logic you mentioned for the first section. For what purpose is it to be created. If the first section is not activated then subsequent sections should not be activated. Each subsequent one depends on the previous one. Please explain this to me, but in a way that I can understand.
And how to set up the logic so that the first section activates (because it starts the whole operation) from the timer or from my command at different times or does not activate from the timer when I know that watering is not necessary (it rained during the night).
I'm happy to poke around on my own (unless it's too clever for me), but I need guidance and some persistence from you.
Regards

Jan_Werbinski wrote:

Are you using the same transformer to power the control panel and solenoid valves?

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Yes, exactly the transformer that powers the CA64PP module located in the garage.
Trafo 80VA, supplying the sprinklers from the free tapping of the transformer, protected by a 2A fuse.
The starting current of the valve is 280mA, during operation it stabilises at 180-190mA.

You continue to avoid answering about Rainbird valves.

alster1 wrote:

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Yes, exactly the transformer supplying the CA64PP module located in the garage.
Trafo 80VA, powering the sprinklers from the free tapping of the transformer, protected by a 2A fuse.
The starting current of the valve is 280mA, during operation it stabilises at 180-190mA.

You continue to avoid answering about Rainbird valves.

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Rain Bird require 24V AC.
Voltage and combining alarm system power with watering does not match.

alster1 wrote:

Because of the large area and the limitation in the capacity of the water source I have 12 sections at my place

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I understand the reason you have 12 sections is to spread the low pressure over smaller sections. A richer section might not be able to cope. What company do you have the fittings from. I for one would like to do everything on a Hunter. Maybe another company would be better, cheaper....
If you don't mind me knowing, how do you have the Integra configured with the system. Similar to how I have presented it? I'd like to get it into a logical whole.

Added after 6 [minutes]: .

Jan_Werbinski wrote:

Rain Bird require 24V AC.
It doesn't fit the voltage and the combination of powering the alarm system and watering.

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I don't really understand what doesn't fit here. The Hunter valve also runs on 24V AC. A relay with a 12v coil gets the job done. Also INT-ORS.

Jan_Werbinski wrote:

Rain Bird require 24V AC.
Voltage and combining power for alarm system and watering is not suitable.

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I don't really know what you don't like here, the Hunter valves also have a 24V AC supply voltage, I have 20V AC on the free tapping of the transformer with plenty of current, the valves work without problems.
I don't really see the difference between controlling irrigation from an integra and controlling gates, lighting or roller shutters.
If you don't like the idea of powering valves from the system's trafo, you can always add another 230/24V 1-2A and it will still be cheaper than a dedicated controller.
I can see that you are looking for arguments by force, just like in the topic of cameras.

masgar wrote:

I understand you have 12 sections therefore to spread the small pressure into smaller sections. A richer section might not be able to cope. What company do you have the fittings from. I for one would like to do everything on a Hunter. Maybe another company would be better, cheaper....
If you don't mind me knowing, how do you have the Integra configured with the system. Similar to how I have presented it? I'd like to get it into a logical whole.

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I have so many sections because I have too small a section of water pipe leading outside the building, in the past I didn't think about irrigation and it was simpler for me to make more sections than to redo the water system.
All the equipment I have is made by Hunter, it has been working without any problems for about 5-6 years, the only failure during this time required cleaning the valve, because it did not close and water gently dripped from the sections.

As for the software of the Integra, as I wrote earlier, I relied on separate Timers for each section and logic with bistable switches. In addition to automatic operation (Timers) I have the ability to switch each section on and off independently from the app, the TSI keypad in the house and physical buttons in the garage.

Colleague kood's suggestion would also work, but with automatic operation, in my case if I switched on one section manually then switching it off would cause the next section to start.

masgar wrote:

If the first section is not activated then subsequent sections should not be activated. Each subsequent one is dependent on the previous one. Please explain this to me, but in such a way that I can understand.

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It may happen, for example, that the third section is working, and you e.g. press a button to switch on watering without knowing that the third section is working, in this situation the first and the third section will be working, which is rather undesirable, hence it is necessary to secure it somehow, unless there is no contraindication to 2 sections working at the same time.

masgar wrote:

Well, how to set the logic so that the first section will switch on (because it starts the whole operation) from the timer or from my command at different times

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the mono switch can be switched on by timers or by input violations or from an application or by text message or from keypads, so e.g. timer 1 switches on automatically at a certain time and in addition you have a whole range of possibilities for manual switching, e.g. you connect a bell button to input 10, in the mono switch you indicate that input 10 is to control this mono switch and you have manual control from the button.

masgar wrote:

or did not switch on from the timer when I know watering is not necessary (it rained at night).

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You make e.g. a BI switch called auto operation and connect it to the timer with a logical product, let this logical product turn on the first section, you set the BI switch to "ON" watering will go on automatically from the timer, you set it to "OFF" timers will not turn on watering.

It all depends on what you need and what free resources you have in the control panel, because with more complicated dependencies the virtual outputs and inputs quickly run out, but in Integra the same problem can be solved in several ways, in this topic you have 2 solutions and surely other ways leading to the same thing would be found.

kood wrote:

It all depends on what you need and what resources you have free in the control panel, because with more complicated dependencies the virtual outputs and inputs quickly run out, but in Integra the same problem can be solved in several ways, in this topic you have 2 solutions and surely other ways leading to the same thing would be found.

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Thank you very much for the clear explanation. I queried because I am aware of the limitation of the virtual. Not only watering will be based on logic, but also other media.
I, for the moment, have no further questions or doubts. For my part, the topic is closed.
Greetings.

kood wrote:

with more complex dependencies the virtual outputs and inputs quickly run out

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The very truth, at my place I started with Integra 64, ended up with 256+.
I am aware that some things could be optimised, but "the shoemaker walks without shoes", never has time to dig around at home.