Best Cabling Options for Smart Home Automation in a Flat with Home Assistant

Question

Hi, I don't have any experience with automation. As for the software, I will use Home Assistant. The flat is from the secondary market. I am planning a SMALL renovation in it, mainly to distribute ethernet from the control panel to each room. (In other words, I will NOT be extending the...

adwlodar · Accepted Answer

As I understand it, there is no mention of an alarm system.

cantorre wrote:
1) Window reed switches

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These usually require 2 wires. Unless you use some miracle smarts that require power and have a function contact separately. Here YTDY 4 or 6x0.5mm

cantorre wrote:
2) "Window break" detector. - I read that 3 cables

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Again, divining from the foo. What kind of detector is it? Typically, those dedicated to alarm systems require min. 2 wires of power, 2 per alarm contact, to which other connections may also occur.

cantorre wrote:
3) Air-conditioning control

Fusy.... What kind of climate control? What control options does it have? It will be different over HTTP, different over 230V signals, and different over voltage-free signals. In the dark I would say twisted pair + 5x1.5mm^2

cantorre wrote:
4) POTENTIALLY some kind of motion sensor in the corridor and some kind of front door detector

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Detector on 12V or 230V? If 12V, again power supply and function contact, ie min. 4. The door opening detector is also a reed switch, so point 1)

cantorre wrote:
5) For the bathroom - humidity sensor and fan on/off - also not sure how many cables, I assume sensor 3 and fan 2

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Here it's not even the fusies will help anymore.... Anything else? What kind of fan, with time control? Well, then fixed phase required, etc. etc.

cantorre wrote:
What cabling to use?

Twisted pair or YTDY or YTKSY with the appropriate number of conductors.
Of course, where 230V is the voltage, then also the appropriate wires.

kokapetyl · Accepted Answer

. The reed switch itself only has two points, why four wires, two is enough. Especially as you don't care which window is open (all connected in series) Or two for each window if you wanted to know which one. . There are bathroom fans with humidity sensor, no additional sensors needed, For power supply you need a minimum of 4x1.5mm (no twisted pair or telephone)

gkwiatkowski · Accepted Answer

Always give 2 wires in reserve as the cable can get damaged, especially at the finishing stage of the house.

adwlodar · Accepted Answer

. A strand, is one cable. A pair of cables, is two wires. . A standard mechanical reed switch is designed to close a circuit, i.e. make a short between two wires. But if you take a 2x0.5mm wire (not square!), you will see that you only need to squeeze it tighter to damage it. This is why, among other things, spare conductors are used in case of a 'w'. . It's not about where the power will come from, it's about being able to control the indoor or outdoor units. So in this respect, I recommend asking your air conditioning installer. . To what you have written yes. Where you need some sophisticated transmission then you need twisted pair, but here again, you need more data. So in theory twisted pair will be more versatile if we are talking about the need for up to 8 wires. Above that, either two twisted pairs or add YTDY. . It will be. If we are talking about normal distances and not 300 metres of 12V power on 0.5mm diameter wire. The quality of the soldering also matters.

cantorre · Answer

Thank you for your replies 440dd1dbb . These usually require 2 wires. Unless you use some miracle smarts that require power and have a function contact separately. Here YTDY 4 or 6x0.5mm . As I do not understand the nomenclature, I would like to clarify. Since you write that reed switches require 2 conductors, why do you suggest 4 or 6x0.5 and not 2x0.5? By conductor do we mean pair of wires? 440dd1dbb What kind of detector is this? What kind of clipper? . I have neither detector nor air conditioning selected. The air conditioning is going to be supplied with power anyway, so there is potentially somewhere to take the current from. As I understand it, I should be looking at YTDY cables, which come in any number of conductors, so I can choose one that suits me. The most important, as yet unanswered question. If I hide such a YTDY cable in a box and, when the time comes, attach an extension to it, will this work? Can such cables be manufactured in this way without loss?

bhtom · Answer

Welcome, . See for yourself the price difference between a typical YTDY 2 x 0.5 and 8 x 0.5 alarm cable (about 50p per 100m) and consider whether it is worth the combination.... The supply of conductors in the cable won't evaporate, and may come in handy in the future. You're making for yourself, do it properly. Even for the reed switches, give YTDY 8 x 0.5 (even if they only require 2 conductors). Of course, if the reed switches are close to each other, you can group them together and run one wire. Regards.

arsu · Answer

@cantorre
You have a concept and are looking for confirmation on the forum of the validity of your ideas but as you write:
You have no experience with automation.
You will NOT be extending the electrical installation so why do you need a star control line?
You do not envisage a traditional alarm installation in which case why do you want to install window contacts and glass break detectors and a motion sensor?
You wrote that you are going to use Home Assistant as the software, so to sum up the contradictions contained in your post, in order to achieve the described functionality, bet on wireless control, without grooves and cables. The whole thing will cost you approx. PLN 1200 and will take you max. It will take you max. 2 hours of configuration alone.
There are, of course, many other solutions.

cantorre · Answer

.As I wrote, I'm distributing Ethernet throughout the flat from the control panel (i.e. in star form) and I'd like to lay the automation cable by the way using the same route .I don't know what is traditional and what is non-traditional. I wrote that it would be a pseudo alarm installation because it would include the things I mentioned .Mainly so I don't forget to close the windows when I go out Since I'm going to be installing reed switches anyway, I may as well get these detectors right away .It's just for turning on the light in the hallway when someone walks by .I know from experience that wireless devices will arrive on their own and in the future this expansion will certainly happen. And while I can lay some cable, I will, at most I won't use it, but I think I'll still be glad I did.

adwlodar · Answer

Exactly right.

arsu · Answer

cantorre wrote: . If you decide on a wired system, I can see another contradiction, because in the case of a star-shaped bus, there must not be any cable but only a decent control cable, e.g. BUS EIB 2x2x0.8 KNX, and it is best to run it in the area of electrical boxes, switches and actuators, which involves reworking the electrical installation, which you do not want to extend. In my opinion, and not only in my opinion, the alarm system should be independent of the automation elements, protected in the event of power failure and often duplicated in operation and at most integrated with the automation for visualization or confirmation of states. This is just some information according to generally accepted principles. Of course, rules are made to be broken so I see unlimited possibilities in front of you. I wanted to help you choose and avoid unnecessary costs but learning from your mistakes also provides a lot of excitement.

adwlodar · Answer

. Nonsense. Come down to earth. The author is asking about buying some cheap sedan and you are pushing a Tesla on him.

sosarek · Answer

. Rubbish. . Well then I guess you don't know that automation can be built on top of an alarm system. That batteries and buffer power supplies are used to back up the power supply, and seemingly for what purpose and how duplicated? By WHOM?

arsu · Answer

@adwlodarNo self-respecting installer is going to lay you a control bus on inferior wire than I gave in the example.That you want to use barbed wire is your business. More than a hundred of my installations working smoothly have confirmed this in practice.

adwlodar · Answer

. You're the one who is totally disconnected from everything I see.... Someone says the word bus and you like an automaton: . Start with the context, what the Author wants, what he doesn't want, what he has in mind at all. I'm leaving aside the fact that you must be terribly limited when it comes to the services you provide, if you only lay such wires. And those texts about alarm systems.... And that bragging about installations.... 🤔

sosarek · Answer

. Interesting, on twisted pair cables it is even laid. And oh horror, people are connecting alarm systems to Fibaro, Grenton, Domoticz....

arsu · Answer

adwlodar wrote: . Precisely as you suggest I started with the context of what the Author wants and tried to persuade him of a wireless solution especially as with his declaration of using the HA software simple and cheaply this can be done. Note that the author mentioned in passing that he has a control panel of some kind, but without details, and assumed the possibility of using wireless devices in the future. However, he chose a wired solution for today, perhaps with a view to future expansion and he has the right to do so, but I know what problems can be caused by saving a few zlotys on the quality of trunk cables in the case of later expansion and I would like to warn him about this. Most calls to the service concerned the improvement of installations made by other teams and handymen, sometimes including various types of surges induced on low-voltage lines interfering with the operation of home automation regardless of the system used. PS Spare me the personal excursions because I am not judging you but the technical solution and I am discussing on this level. If there is a fire and you have to show the certificates of the materials used, you will look at the subject differently.

adwlodar · Answer

Dear Colleague @arsu , I am unable to agree with you, and it is impossible to talk down to the likes of you. You know better and that is fine. Use certificates everywhere, KNX systems, LSOH bus cables, whatever pleases you and your investors. The problem is different: you don't listen. You are not able to adapt to what the customer wants. Kind regards.

cantorre · Answer

Hi,
Thank you for your replies.
I have decided to go with YTDY wiring, the cables have already been bricked in and plastered.
I have connected under them:
1) Contactors
2) Glass-break detectors
3) Motion detectors
4) Fans
5) Infrared

The whole thing hasn't been set up yet because the renovation is still going on. I will try to come back here and write if everything works as I wanted once I have configured it.
Greetings

Best Cabling Options for Smart Home Automation in a Flat with Home Assistant

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