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Best Cabling Options for Smart Home Automation in a Flat with Home Assistant

cantorre 3687 18
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Can I run extra low-voltage cabling in a star layout from a control panel in my flat for future smart-home sensors and actuators, and what cable type should I choose?

Yes, you can run spare low-voltage cables in star form to boxes and later connect extensions there, and with normal apartment distances this should work if the splices are done well [#19509454] Reed switches themselves need only 2 wires, so for windows and similar contacts a 2-core line is enough; if you want future reserve, it is better to run a thicker cable such as YTDY 4x0.5, 6x0.5 or even 8x0.5 than only 2x0.5 [#19508875][#19509598][#19509295] For general low-voltage automation the replies recommend YTDY or YTKSY with the needed number of conductors, and twisted pair only where the communication/control method actually requires it [#19508850][#19509454] If any part is 230 V, then use proper mains wiring instead of telephone or twisted-pair cable [#19508850][#19508875] For the bathroom, one answer notes that there are fans with built-in humidity sensors, so you may not need a separate humidity sensor, and the fan supply should use a minimum of 4x1.5 mm² [#19508875] Air-conditioning control depends entirely on the model and its interface, so the cable choice there must follow the installer’s/control method requirements [#19508850][#19509454]
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  • #1 19508836
    cantorre
    Level 9  
    Posts: 10
    Rate: 5
    Hi,
    I don't have any experience with automation.
    As for the software, I will use Home Assistant.

    The flat is from the secondary market. I am planning a SMALL renovation in it, mainly to distribute ethernet from the control panel to each room. (In other words, I will NOT be extending the electrical installation). I would additionally like to add some cable that I can use in the future for potential automation solutions. In other words, such a cable would be distributed in a star system together with the ethernet cables. On a day-to-day basis, I would like to connect to such an installation:

    1) Window reed switches (one switch per window, these are roof windows and the main idea is not to leave the windows open in case of rain) - from what I have read I need 4 cables for this
    2) A "glass breakage" detector - I have read that 3 cables
    3) Air conditioning control - I haven't looked into the subject yet, but I'd like to be able to turn it on/off/increase/reduce it
    4) POTENTIALLY some kind of motion sensor in the corridor and some kind of front door opening sensor - I'm just stating this so that it's known in the context of cable selection, if it matters.
    5) For the bathroom - a humidity sensor and a fan on/off - also not sure how many cables, I assume sensor 3 and fan 2.

    The way I imagine it is that when I enter the room, I install a box where I separate the cables.
    Part goes to the air conditioner "left". Part goes "right" to the other box under the windows. I'm connecting the reed switches in series because I don't care which exact window is open, I'm content to know which room the signal is coming from. I'd also like to connect the detectors in series, but I don't know yet if it will work that way?

    In the future, if I wanted to attach something, it would be from the box. I would like to run twice as many cables as I will use for the solution described.
    And finally, two questions

    1) Will this work as I described above? In particular, will I be able to trickle cables in these cans?
    2) What cabling should I use? I should add that the distances are not great, as they are in a flat. From a central point 40m max. Can I use twisted pair? Telephone cable? Something else? Shielded?

    Thank you in advance for your answers.
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    #2 19508850
    adwlodar
    Level 28  
    Posts: 1067
    Help: 111
    Rate: 245
    As I understand it, there is no mention of an alarm system.
    cantorre wrote:
    1) Window reed switches
    .
    These usually require 2 wires. Unless you use some miracle smarts that require power and have a function contact separately. Here YTDY 4 or 6x0.5mm
    cantorre wrote:
    2) "Window break" detector. - I read that 3 cables
    .
    Again, divining from the foo. What kind of detector is it? Typically, those dedicated to alarm systems require min. 2 wires of power, 2 per alarm contact, to which other connections may also occur.
    cantorre wrote:
    3) Air-conditioning control

    Fusy.... What kind of climate control? What control options does it have? It will be different over HTTP, different over 230V signals, and different over voltage-free signals. In the dark I would say twisted pair + 5x1.5mm^2
    cantorre wrote:
    4) POTENTIALLY some kind of motion sensor in the corridor and some kind of front door detector
    .
    Detector on 12V or 230V? If 12V, again power supply and function contact, ie min. 4. The door opening detector is also a reed switch, so point 1)
    cantorre wrote:
    5) For the bathroom - humidity sensor and fan on/off - also not sure how many cables, I assume sensor 3 and fan 2
    .
    Here it's not even the fusies will help anymore.... Anything else? What kind of fan, with time control? Well, then fixed phase required, etc. etc.
    cantorre wrote:
    What cabling to use?

    Twisted pair or YTDY or YTKSY with the appropriate number of conductors.
    Of course, where 230V is the voltage, then also the appropriate wires.
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    #3 19508875
    kokapetyl
    Level 43  
    Posts: 13444
    Help: 1787
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    cantorre wrote:
    1) Window reed switches (one reed switch per window, these are roof windows and it's mainly about not leaving the windows open in case of rain) - from what I've read it needs 4 wires for this
    .
    The reed switch itself only has two points, why four wires, two is enough. Especially as you don't care which window is open (all connected in series) Or two for each window if you wanted to know which one.
    cantorre wrote:
    For the bathroom - humidity sensor and fan on/off
    .
    There are bathroom fans with humidity sensor, no additional sensors needed, For power supply you need a minimum of 4x1.5mm (no twisted pair or telephone)
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    #4 19509295
    gkwiatkowski
    CCTV and Stationary Alarms specialist  
    Posts: 4630
    Help: 646
    Rate: 1210
    kokapetyl wrote:
    cantorre wrote:
    1) Window reed switches (one reed switch per window, these are roof windows and the idea is mainly to keep the windows open in case of rain) - from what I've read it needs 4 wires for this

    The reed switch itself only has two points, why do you need four wires, two is enough. Especially as you don't care which window is open (all connected in series) Or two for each window if you wanted to know which.


    Always give 2 wires in reserve as the cable can get damaged, especially at the finishing stage of the house.
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  • #5 19509418
    cantorre
    Level 9  
    Posts: 10
    Rate: 5
    Thank you for your replies
    440dd1dbb .
    These usually require 2 wires. Unless you use some miracle smarts that require power and have a function contact separately. Here YTDY 4 or 6x0.5mm
    .
    As I do not understand the nomenclature, I would like to clarify. Since you write that reed switches require 2 conductors, why do you suggest 4 or 6x0.5 and not 2x0.5? By "conductor" do we mean "pair" of wires?
    440dd1dbb What kind of detector is this? What kind of clipper?
    .
    I have neither detector nor air conditioning selected. The air conditioning is going to be supplied with power anyway, so there is potentially somewhere to take the current from.

    As I understand it, I should be looking at YTDY cables, which come in any number of conductors, so I can choose one that suits me.

    The most important, as yet unanswered question. If I hide such a YTDY cable in a box and, when the time comes, attach an "extension" to it, will this work? Can such cables be manufactured in this way without loss?
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    #6 19509454
    adwlodar
    Level 28  
    Posts: 1067
    Help: 111
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    cantorre wrote:
    Whether by "conductor" we mean a "pair" of cables?
    .
    A strand, is one cable. A pair of cables, is two wires.
    cantorre wrote:
    Since you write that reed switches require 2 wires, why do you suggest 4 or 6x0.5
    .
    A standard mechanical reed switch is designed to close a circuit, i.e. make a short between two wires. But if you take a 2x0.5mm wire (not square!), you will see that you only need to squeeze it tighter to damage it. This is why, among other things, spare conductors are used in case of a 'w'.
    cantorre wrote:
    I have neither the detectors nor the clima selected. The power will be going to the air conditioning unit anyway, so there is potentially a power source.
    .
    It's not about where the power will come from, it's about being able to control the indoor or outdoor units. So in this respect, I recommend asking your air conditioning installer.
    cantorre wrote:
    As I understand it, I should be looking at YTDY cables
    .
    To what you have written yes. Where you need some sophisticated transmission then you need twisted pair, but here again, you need more data. So in theory twisted pair will be more versatile if we are talking about the need for up to 8 wires. Above that, either two twisted pairs or add YTDY.
    cantorre wrote:
    If I hide such a YTDY cable in a box, and when the time comes, add an "extension" to it, will it work like that? Can such cables be artificially made lossless in this way?
    .
    It will be. If we are talking about normal distances and not 300 metres of 12V power on 0.5mm diameter wire.
    The quality of the soldering also matters.
  • #7 19509598
    bhtom
    Level 39  
    Posts: 4480
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    Rate: 600
    Welcome,

    cantorre wrote:
    Because I don't understand the nomenclature, I would like to clarify. Since you write that reed switches require 2 wires, why do you suggest 4 or 6x0.5 and not 2x0.5?
    .

    See for yourself the price difference between a typical YTDY 2 x 0.5 and 8 x 0.5 alarm cable (about 50p per 100m) and consider whether it is worth the combination.... The supply of conductors in the cable won't evaporate, and may come in handy in the future. You're making for yourself, do it properly. Even for the reed switches, give YTDY 8 x 0.5 (even if they only require 2 conductors). Of course, if the reed switches are close to each other, you can group them together and run one wire.

    Regards.
  • #8 19510756
    arsu
    Level 8  
    Posts: 12
    @cantorre
    You have a concept and are looking for confirmation on the forum of the validity of your ideas but as you write:
    You have no experience with automation.
    You will NOT be extending the electrical installation so why do you need a star control line?
    You do not envisage a traditional alarm installation in which case why do you want to install window contacts and glass break detectors and a motion sensor?
    You wrote that you are going to use Home Assistant as the software, so to sum up the contradictions contained in your post, in order to achieve the described functionality, bet on wireless control, without grooves and cables. The whole thing will cost you approx. PLN 1200 and will take you max. It will take you max. 2 hours of configuration alone.
    There are, of course, many other solutions.
  • #9 19511362
    cantorre
    Level 9  
    Posts: 10
    Rate: 5
    arsu wrote:
    You won't be extending the electrical system so why do you need a control line in star form?
    .
    As I wrote, I'm distributing Ethernet throughout the flat from the control panel (i.e. in star form) and I'd like to lay the automation cable "by the way" using the same route
    arsu wrote:
    You are not envisaging a traditional alarm installation
    .
    I don't know what is traditional and what is non-traditional. I wrote that it would be a pseudo alarm installation because it would include the things I mentioned
    arsu wrote:
    why do you want to install window contacts
    .
    Mainly so I don't forget to close the windows when I go out
    arsu wrote:
    Break glass detectors

    Since I'm going to be installing reed switches anyway, I may as well get these detectors right away
    arsu wrote:
    motion sensor?
    .
    It's just for turning on the light in the hallway when someone walks by
    arsu wrote:
    Pose for wireless control
    .
    I know from experience that wireless devices will arrive on their own and in the future this expansion will certainly happen. And while I can lay some cable, I will, at most I won't use it, but I think I'll still be glad I did.
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  • #10 19511740
    adwlodar
    Level 28  
    Posts: 1067
    Help: 111
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    cantorre wrote:
    As long as I can lay some cable, I'll lay some cable, at most I won't use it, but I think I'll still be glad I did.

    Exactly right.
  • #11 19511991
    arsu
    Level 8  
    Posts: 12
    cantorre wrote:
    Quote:
    A while I can lay some cable
    .
    If you decide on a wired system, I can see another contradiction, because in the case of a star-shaped bus, there must not be any cable but only a decent control cable, e.g. BUS EIB 2x2x0.8 KNX, and it is best to run it in the area of electrical boxes, switches and actuators, which involves reworking the electrical installation, which you do not want to extend.
    In my opinion, and not only in my opinion, the alarm system should be independent of the automation elements, protected in the event of power failure and often duplicated in operation and at most integrated with the automation for visualization or confirmation of states.
    This is just some information according to generally accepted principles. Of course, rules are made to be broken so I see unlimited possibilities in front of you. I wanted to help you choose and avoid unnecessary costs but learning from your mistakes also provides a lot of excitement.
  • #12 19512532
    adwlodar
    Level 28  
    Posts: 1067
    Help: 111
    Rate: 245
    arsu wrote:
    control cable e.g. BUS type EIB 2x2x0.8 KNX
    .
    Nonsense.
    Come down to earth.
    The author is asking about buying some cheap sedan and you are pushing a Tesla on him.
  • #13 19512646
    sosarek

    Level 43  
    Posts: 83875
    Help: 9318
    Rate: 15431
    arsu wrote:
    If you decide on a wired system, then I see another contradiction, because with a star bus there must not be any cable but a decent control cable, e.g. BUS EIB 2x2x0.8 KNX type, and it should preferably be routed in the vicinity of electrical boxes, switches, actuators
    .
    Rubbish.
    arsu wrote:
    My opinion and not only mine is that the alarm system should be independent of automation components, protected in case of power failure and often duplicated in operation
    .
    Well then I guess you don't know that automation can be built on top of an alarm system. That batteries and buffer power supplies are used to back up the power supply, and seemingly for what purpose and how duplicated?
    arsu wrote:
    This is just some information according to generally accepted principles

    By WHOM?
    Company Account:
    Z
    Pka, Poznań, 60-850
    Helpful post? Buy me a coffee.
  • #14 19512648
    arsu
    Level 8  
    Posts: 12
    @adwlodar
    No self-respecting installer is going to lay you a control bus on inferior wire than I gave in the example.
    That you want to use barbed wire is your business. More than a hundred of my installations working smoothly have confirmed this in practice.
  • #15 19512654
    adwlodar
    Level 28  
    Posts: 1067
    Help: 111
    Rate: 245
    arsu wrote:
    No self-respecting installer would lay you a control bus on wires with inferior parameters than I have given in the example.
    .
    You're the one who is totally disconnected from everything I see....
    Someone says the word "bus" and you like an automaton:
    arsu wrote:
    BUS EIB 2x2x0.8 KNX
    .
    Start with the context, what the Author wants, what he doesn't want, what he has in mind at all.
    I'm leaving aside the fact that you must be terribly limited when it comes to the services you provide, if you only lay such wires.
    And those texts about alarm systems....
    And that bragging about installations.... 🤔
  • #16 19512656
    sosarek

    Level 43  
    Posts: 83875
    Help: 9318
    Rate: 15431
    arsu wrote:
    No self-respecting installer would lay you a control bus on wires with inferior parameters than I have given in the example.
    .
    Interesting, on twisted pair cables it is even laid. And oh horror, people are connecting alarm systems to Fibaro, Grenton, Domoticz....
    Company Account:
    Z
    Pka, Poznań, 60-850
    Helpful post? Buy me a coffee.
  • #17 19513321
    arsu
    Level 8  
    Posts: 12
    adwlodar wrote:
    Quote:
    Begin with the context, what the Author wants, what he doesn't want, what he has in mind at all.
    .
    Precisely as you suggest I started with the context of what the Author wants and tried to persuade him of a wireless solution especially as with his declaration of using the HA software simple and cheaply this can be done. Note that the author mentioned in passing that he has
    a control panel of some kind, but without details, and assumed the possibility of using wireless devices in the future. However, he chose a wired solution for today, perhaps with a view to future expansion and he has the right to do so, but I know what problems can be caused by "saving" a few zlotys on the quality of trunk cables in the case of later expansion and I would like to warn him about this. Most calls to the service concerned the improvement of installations made by other teams and "handymen", sometimes including various types of surges induced on low-voltage lines interfering with the operation of home automation regardless of the system used.
    PS Spare me the personal excursions because I am not judging you but the technical solution and I am discussing on this level. If there is a fire and you have to show the certificates of the materials used, you will look at the subject differently.
  • #18 19513619
    adwlodar
    Level 28  
    Posts: 1067
    Help: 111
    Rate: 245
    Dear Colleague @arsu ,
    I am unable to agree with you, and it is impossible to talk down to the likes of you.

    You know better and that is fine.
    Use certificates everywhere, KNX systems, LSOH bus cables, whatever pleases you and your investors.

    The problem is different: you don't listen. You are not able to adapt to what the customer wants.
    Kind regards.
  • #19 19590559
    cantorre
    Level 9  
    Posts: 10
    Rate: 5
    Hi,
    Thank you for your replies.
    I have decided to go with YTDY wiring, the cables have already been bricked in and plastered.
    I have connected under them:
    1) Contactors
    2) Glass-break detectors
    3) Motion detectors
    4) Fans
    5) Infrared

    The whole thing hasn't been set up yet because the renovation is still going on. I will try to come back here and write if everything works as I wanted once I have configured it.
    Greetings
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    Topic summary

    ✨ The discussion revolves around the best cabling options for smart home automation in a flat using Home Assistant. The user seeks advice on distributing Ethernet and additional automation cables during a renovation. Key components include window reed switches, glass break detectors, air conditioning control, and potential future devices. Various responses suggest using YTDY cables, with recommendations for spare conductors to accommodate future needs. The importance of choosing appropriate wire types, such as twisted pair for data transmission and alarm systems, is emphasized. Some participants advocate for wireless solutions instead of wired systems, citing ease of installation and configuration. Ultimately, the user decides on YTDY wiring for their automation needs.
    Generated by the language model.
    Today's popular

    FAQ

    TL;DR: In flats, YTDY/UTP star-runs are fine; "The quality of the soldering also matters." Keep 12 V on 0.5 mm far under 300 m. Use extra cores, splice in junction boxes, and 1.5 mm² for 230 V loads. [Elektroda, adwlodar, post #19509454]

    Quick Facts

    What cable should I run for window reed switches in a flat?

    Use YTDY 4–6×0.5 mm to each window zone. A basic reed switch needs only 2 conductors, but extra cores give redundancy or tamper lines. If you later need individual window identification, dedicate two conductors per window to separate inputs. This keeps options open without reopening walls. [Elektroda, adwlodar, post #19508850]

    Can I wire multiple window contacts in series and still detect an open window?

    Yes. Series wiring of normally‑closed reeds gives zone‑level detection: any open window breaks the loop. You won’t know which window without separate loops. For per‑window insight, home‑run each contact or at least bring spare cores to the box for later separation. [Elektroda, kokapetyl, post #19508875]

    How many spare cores should I pull for reliability?

    Pull extra conductors to every point. "Always give 2 wires in reserve" to cover damage during finishing or future needs. Spare cores save full re‑cabling and enable added features like tampers or LEDs later. [Elektroda, gkwiatkowski, post #19509295]

    Can I splice or extend YTDY cables in junction boxes without signal loss?

    Yes, for typical flat distances. Terminate cleanly and protect joints. "The quality of the soldering also matters." Avoid long 12 V power feeds over tiny conductors; as an edge case, don’t attempt 300 m on 0.5 mm. [Elektroda, adwlodar, post #19509454]

    What do glass‑break detectors and PIR motion sensors typically need?

    Most low‑voltage detectors need four conductors: two for 12 V power and two for a dry alarm contact. Plan YTDY with at least 4 cores to each device. Door opening sensors are just reed switches and use 2 conductors. [Elektroda, adwlodar, post #19508850]

    How should I wire the bathroom fan and humidity control?

    Choose a fan with a built‑in humidity sensor to simplify wiring. Provide a minimum of 4×1.5 mm² for supply and control. Do not use UTP or telephone cable for 230 V connections. [Elektroda, kokapetyl, post #19508875]

    What cabling should I allow for air‑conditioner control with Home Assistant?

    Control methods vary: HTTP modules, 230 V signals, or dry‑contact inputs. To stay flexible, pull one twisted pair to the unit plus a 5×1.5 mm² cable for mains‑level control options. Confirm specifics with your HVAC installer. [Elektroda, adwlodar, post #19508850]

    Do I need KNX/EIB bus cable, or will YTDY/UTP do for Home Assistant?

    You do not need KNX cable unless you’re deploying KNX. Twisted pair and alarm cable are commonly used, and many systems integrate alarm panels with platforms like Fibaro or Domoticz over low‑voltage wiring. [Elektroda, sosarek, post #19512656]

    Is a star topology okay alongside Ethernet, with junction boxes feeding rooms?

    Yes. Home‑run low‑voltage cables to a central panel and branch in room boxes as needed. Splicing and extending YTDY is acceptable at residential distances when joints are well made and protected. [Elektroda, adwlodar, post #19509454]

    Should I consider wireless sensors instead of wiring during a small renovation?

    If you want minimal disruption, wireless works well with Home Assistant. One pro suggested about PLN 1200 total and roughly 2 hours of configuration for a basic setup. You can still add wires where practical. [Elektroda, arsu, post #19510756]

    Can I build automations on top of an alarm system and keep backup power?

    Yes. Automation can be built on an alarm panel’s zones and outputs. Use batteries and a buffer power supply to maintain operation during outages for resilience. [Elektroda, sosarek, post #19512656]

    Can I reuse spare pairs in CAT5e/CAT6 for low‑power sensors?

    Yes, for low‑current contacts and data where needed. UTP has 8 conductors and helps when devices require twisted pairs. Do not mix mains voltage in the same sheath. Combine UTP with YTDY when you need more than 8 conductors. [Elektroda, adwlodar, post #19509454]

    How do I wire this during a small renovation without overthinking it?

    1. Plan devices per room. Pull YTDY 6–8×0.5 to boxes, CAT for data, and 3×–5×1.5 mm² for 230 V loads.
    2. Home‑run all low‑voltage to a central panel. Label both ends and note spare cores.
    3. Splice/extend neatly in boxes. Solder or use quality terminals, then test before plastering. [Elektroda, adwlodar, post #19509454]

    What did someone with the same scenario actually install?

    One user bricked‑in YTDY and later connected contacts, glass‑break sensors, motion detectors, fans, and IR receivers. They planned to configure everything in Home Assistant after renovation. [Elektroda, cantorre, post #19590559]
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