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Lightweight CNC e-cross QS165, ND72360.

hetm4n 5688 31

TL;DR

  • Handmade lightweight e-cross built completely from scratch with a MIDDRIVE motor and geometry similar to a Sur-Ron.
  • The frame was drawn in Corel and milled from 7075 aerospace aluminium on a CNC router, with a 10mm body and 20mm swingarm.
  • A Fardriver ND72360 controller is used, rated at 190A/360A and 13kW max, currently set to 120A/240A.
  • The drivetrain uses a QS165 motor with 47Nm, a Sur-Ron gear, and a 58T rear sprocket.
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  • Lightweight CNC e-cross QS165, ND72360.
    Welcome, I present my construction made completely from scratch. It is an electric cross with MIDDRIVE motor. The geometry is similar to the surron. Frame drawn in Corel and milled from 7075 aerospace aluminium on CNC router (10mm body, 20mm swingarm).

    Fardriver ND72360 controller (190A/360A-13kWmax) currently set to 120A/240A
    Motor QS165 47Nm + gear from surron + rear sprocket 58T.

    Cool? Ranking DIY
    About Author
    hetm4n
    Level 20  
    Offline 
    hetm4n wrote 812 posts with rating 525, helped 5 times. Live in city Ruda Śląska. Been with us since 2007 year.
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  • #2 21033775
    ArturAVS
    Moderator  
    Posts: 26064
    Help: 2295
    Rate: 7731
    Registered?
  • #3 21033790
    gulson
    System Administrator  
    Posts: 29269
    Help: 148
    Rate: 5991
    And that's DIY! Plus eco-friendly :)
    Thanks for the presentation. Text me the parcel number and I'll send a small gift.
  • #4 21033818
    szeryf3
    Level 30  
    Posts: 2046
    Help: 12
    Rate: 672
    Looks awesome
    This is DIY.
  • #5 21033930
    hetm4n
    Level 20  
    Posts: 812
    Help: 5
    Rate: 525
    ArturAVS wrote:
    Registered?

    From information from people who have already tried to register a single project of their own design, it comes out that this is practically impossible. Unless someone has better knowledge on the subject :) and by the way, I only drive it to the forest, tributes, pits etc. on public roads.
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  • #6 21033938
    ArturAVS
    Moderator  
    Posts: 26064
    Help: 2295
    Rate: 7731
    hetm4n wrote:
    From information from people who have already tried to register a single project of their own design, it comes out that it is practically impossible to realise.
    It is realisable but costs a lot of pennies.
    hetm4n wrote:
    I only drive it to the forest, tributes, pits etc. on public roads with it.
    So formally, have you taken out any insurance? For your own peace of mind. And why do I ask? I once had a situation where I had a collision with a passenger car in a closed area (company). I was driving heavy/construction equipment (the licences were there, of course), the equipment had no third party liability and I had a lot of pulling because of it (the company too). After the incident I took out OC for my bike even, you never know what can happen.
  • #7 21033984
    hetm4n
    Level 20  
    Posts: 812
    Help: 5
    Rate: 525
    @ArturAVS I have a mortgage oc for the whole family, whereas even problems can be caused by walking and damaging someone. Itp.
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  • #8 21034071
    E8600
    Level 41  
    Posts: 8873
    Help: 525
    Rate: 2475
    Why is it not possible to enlarge the photos?

    What diameter is the control arm axle because it looks very delicate in the pictures?
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  • #9 21034275
    hetm4n
    Level 20  
    Posts: 812
    Help: 5
    Rate: 525
    @E8600 corrected. Control arm axle 10mm. Standard dimension on this type of factory motorbike. (Surron, talaria, e-ride etc).
  • #10 21034324
    E8600
    Level 41  
    Posts: 8873
    Help: 525
    Rate: 2475
    hetm4n wrote:
    second battery under construction on NMC LG Chem E61v 60Ah cells.
    Will power be increased on new battery? The motor will withstand the max of this controller?
  • #11 21034347
    hetm4n
    Level 20  
    Posts: 812
    Help: 5
    Rate: 525
    @E8600 this instantaneous motor will take 18kW, it is protected by a temperature sensor. With 8kW in the field the maximum temperature it has reached is 60°C. The second battery is being set up for quiet longer trips in the larger woodland and mountain trails in the Silesian Beskid. I have no intention of drawing more than 120A. For me, this power is sufficient.
  • #12 21034543
    maciex1993
    Level 15  
    Posts: 135
    Help: 8
    Rate: 81
    A colleague from Ruda Śląska? Then I invite you to contact me!
    Great project, respect for making the frame yourself, I only converted the spalian.
    Red off-road motorcycle parked outside near a row of garages. .
  • #13 21034660
    E8600
    Level 41  
    Posts: 8873
    Help: 525
    Rate: 2475
    I wonder if, in the case of registering a converted diesel, wouldn't it be easier because here only the type of drive is changed?
  • #14 21034862
    szymon122
    Level 38  
    Posts: 4085
    Help: 302
    Rate: 754
    ArturAVS wrote:
    So formally, any insurance you have taken out?


    The insurance would be for what vehicle? I have an e-bike with a power output of about 2200W and taking out insurance on the bike then in the event of an accident the first thing the insurer will do is verify that my vehicle is a bike.
  • #15 21034928
    hetm4n
    Level 20  
    Posts: 812
    Help: 5
    Rate: 525
    @maciex1993 what did you put in there that was interesting? What parameters? With the dragracer app you can check the performance by gps:)
  • #16 21035050
    satanistik
    Level 27  
    Posts: 1931
    Help: 61
    Rate: 760
    With these OCs what do you give them on the form, what VIN, frame number? You know such a vehicle I built ;-) . Insurance companies are not looking for problems just cash.

    A cool project, too bad there are no videos from the field. How long does such a battery - rechargeable?
  • #17 21035380
    maciex1993
    Level 15  
    Posts: 135
    Help: 8
    Rate: 81
    >>21034928
    Motor QS138 70H V3, battery 21S15P samsung 40T 4.5kWh, driver 120A from battery ( votol em 150) (max 180A from battery but I do not need that much, can handle any hill as for my modest skills ) phase current unknown :) theoretically 600Nm on the wheel.
    Weight 108kg, range at 50km/h ~~ 100km, top speed 80-90 but also limited to 50/70 because there is no need for more off-road.
    We can agree on PW for some meeting, I have 2 compatriots from the area on surrrons or other custom.
  • #18 21035430
    pawlik118
    Level 33  
    Posts: 2410
    Help: 201
    Rate: 596
    Upload a video from the site :) .
  • #19 21035597
    ArturAVS
    Moderator  
    Posts: 26064
    Help: 2295
    Rate: 7731
    szymon122 wrote:
    I have an e-bike with a power output of about 2200W and taking out insurance on my bike then in the event of an accident the first thing the insurer will do is verify that my vehicle is a bike.
    By law it is not. I was not referring to motor insurance.

    Text excerpt about third-party liability insurance in private life.
  • #20 21037280
    ^ToM^
    Level 42  
    Posts: 9048
    Help: 495
    Rate: 2930
    To ride on the street you need a category A or B licence, For a bicycle card will not pass. :) .
  • #21 21037426
    kiss39
    Level 39  
    Posts: 5334
    Help: 397
    Rate: 636
    Hello

    We have Made in Poland another cool project and product. Create some team, group and register, register guys - because the Chinese will take advantage.
  • #22 21041800
    rademenes787
    Level 6  
    Posts: 103
    Help: 1
    Rate: 25
    Great and congratulations, you're the guy! My only concern would be the sharp edges, especially at the top.... Is it not possible to soften it somehow? Maybe an overlay?
  • #23 21042151
    hetm4n
    Level 20  
    Posts: 812
    Help: 5
    Rate: 525
    The edges are gently chamfered, no harm done. It is possible to combine them with some protective casings etc, but I like them as they are. In general, the idea was to make them very round during machining, but my amateur CNC milling skills and lack of knowledge of cad programs, I opted for simplicity and ease of execution.
  • #24 21042378
    AlexTT
    Level 1  
    Posts: 1
    We can introduce this design and make it cheaper to implement without sacrificing quality.
  • #25 21052548
    gradek83
    Level 43  
    Posts: 9057
    Help: 925
    Rate: 2078
    The Polish military should have such motors for rapid movement on the battlefield.
  • #26 21055528
    szeryf3
    Level 30  
    Posts: 2046
    Help: 12
    Rate: 672
    Now they need a lot of things and are trying to make ends meet. But privately he would be too.
  • #27 21066520
    Strumien swiadomosci swia
    Level 43  
    Posts: 27415
    Help: 1403
    Rate: 6384
    Immediately some businessman connected with the Polish board of directors will see a business opportunity and will be looking for students to copy the baika.
  • #28 21066576
    bolek
    Level 35  
    Posts: 4098
    Help: 86
    Rate: 298
    E8600 wrote:
    I wonder if it wouldn't be easier in the case of registering a converted combustion engine, because here only the type of drive is changed?
    The only way to register such a DIY is to buy something with a lightweight frame and documents.
  • #29 21070029
    ziboalle
    Level 2  
    Posts: 2
    Super project.
    What diameter are the wheels? What is the total weight ?
  • #30 21071271
    hetm4n
    Level 20  
    Posts: 812
    Help: 5
    Rate: 525
    @ziboalle 19" wheels 70/100-19R tyres , weight 65kg
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    Topic summary

    ✨ The discussion revolves around a custom-built electric cross bike featuring a MIDDRIVE motor, specifically the QS165 model. The frame is crafted from 7075 aerospace aluminum using CNC milling techniques, with dimensions similar to the Surron bike. The setup includes a Fardriver ND72360 controller, currently configured for 120A/240A, and a rear sprocket of 58T. Participants discuss the challenges of registering such DIY projects, insurance considerations, and technical specifications like wheel size (19 inches) and total weight (65 kg). The author mentions plans for a second battery to extend range for off-road use, while others express admiration for the project and share insights on performance and safety.
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    FAQ

    TL;DR: At 65 kg, this DIY electric cross pairs a QS165 mid-drive with a Fardriver ND72360, and the builder says "this power is sufficient." This FAQ is for riders comparing custom e-cross parts, cooling limits, wheel specs, and road-legality tradeoffs before building a lightweight off-road machine. [#21071271]

    Why it matters: This thread shows what a real lightweight CNC-built electric cross can achieve, where it is limited, and which practical choices matter most before you copy the concept.

    Wariant Silnik Sterownik / ustawienie Masa / zasięg Przeznaczenie
    Opisywany build CNC QS165 47 Nm Fardriver ND72360, ustawiony na 120A/240A 65 kg lekki off-road, geometria zbliżona do Sur-Ron
    Drugi build z dyskusji QS138 70H V3 Votol EM150, 120A z baterii 108 kg, ~100 km przy 50 km/h cięższy build terenowy z dużym zasięgiem

    Key insight: The strongest takeaway is not peak power. It is the balance of low weight, conservative 120A/240A settings, and thermal control, which makes the bike usable off-road without chasing the controller’s full paper rating.

    Quick Facts

    • The frame was drawn in Corel and CNC-machined from 7075 aluminum: 10 mm main structure and 20 mm swingarm sections. [#21033619]
    • The drivetrain uses a QS165 47 Nm mid-drive motor, a Sur-Ron gearbox, and a 58T rear sprocket. [#21033619]
    • The controller is a Fardriver ND72360 rated 190A/360A, 13 kW max, but this bike currently runs 120A/240A. [#21033619]
    • The builder reported 60°C max motor temperature at 8 kW in the field, with a temperature sensor protecting the motor. [#21034347]
    • The bike runs 19-inch wheels with 70/100-19R tires and a total weight of 65 kg. [#21071271]

    How was the frame of this lightweight CNC electric cross designed and machined from 7075 aluminum on a CNC router?

    The frame was designed in Corel and then machined from 7075 aerospace aluminum on a CNC router. The builder used 10 mm aluminum for the main body and 20 mm for the swingarm, aiming for Sur-Ron-like geometry with a fully custom layout. He also chose simpler shapes because of limited CAD and CNC experience, which kept the project buildable from scratch. [#21033619]

    What is a mid-drive motor, and why use it in a DIY electric cross bike instead of a hub motor?

    "Mid-drive motor" is an electric drive unit that powers the bike through the drivetrain, centralizing mass and allowing external gearing, which suits off-road bikes that need torque multiplication and better suspension response than a heavy wheel-mounted motor. This build uses a QS165 mid-drive with a Sur-Ron gear and 58T rear sprocket, so the motor sits inboard rather than in the wheel. [#21033619]

    How do the QS165 motor and Fardriver ND72360 controller work together in this build?

    They work as a matched power system where the Fardriver ND72360 feeds controlled current to the QS165 motor. In this bike, the QS165 is paired with a Sur-Ron gearbox and a 58T rear sprocket, while the ND72360 is configured below its headline limit for practical off-road use. That combination prioritizes usable torque and thermal headroom over maximum current. [#21033619]

    Which controller settings were used on the Fardriver ND72360, and why was it limited to 120A/240A instead of the full 190A/360A?

    The bike runs the Fardriver ND72360 at 120A battery current and 240A phase current. The builder did not chase the controller’s full 190A/360A rating because he said he had no intention of drawing more than 120A and found the present power level sufficient for his riding. That is a deliberate reliability and control choice, not a hardware limit. [#21034347]

    What does the QS165 motor actually tolerate in practice, and how does the temperature sensor protect it at higher power levels?

    In practice, the builder said the QS165 can take 18 kW instantaneously, and he observed only 60°C at 8 kW in field riding. He also said the motor is protected by a temperature sensor, so rising heat acts as the main safeguard when power climbs. The clear limit case is heat, not just current on paper. [#21034347]

    How long does the battery last in off-road riding, and how long does it take to recharge it?

    The thread does not give a measured off-road runtime or any recharge time for this specific bike. The only firm battery detail is that a second pack was being built from LG Chem E61v 60Ah NMC cells for longer forest and mountain rides, while the current setup stayed limited to 120A because the builder considered that enough. [#21034347]

    Why is registering a one-off self-built electric cross bike so difficult, and what makes the process expensive?

    It is difficult because a one-off self-built bike has no standard vehicle identity, and forum users described registration as either practically impossible or possible only with high cost. The builder said people who had tried to register a single custom design reported that it was nearly impossible, which is why he used it off-road in forests and pits instead of public roads. [#21033930]

    In terms of registration and paperwork, is converting a combustion motorcycle to electric easier than building a fully custom frame from scratch?

    Yes, the thread suggests a conversion is easier on paperwork because only the drive type changes, while a fully custom frame starts with no existing vehicle documents. One user explicitly wondered whether a converted combustion bike would be easier to register for that reason. The discussion does not prove the process is easy, only easier than a ground-up custom chassis. [#21034660]

    What is OC insurance in this context, and how does family liability insurance differ from vehicle insurance for a DIY electric bike or cross?

    "OC insurance" is liability insurance that covers damage you cause to others, but its scope depends on the policy type, insured object, and legal classification of the vehicle involved. In this thread, the builder relied on family liability cover, while other users warned that vehicle-related claims can become problematic if the machine has no clear registration class or policy match. [#21033984]

    What license category would be needed to ride a powerful electric cross like this on public roads?

    A forum participant said riding a machine like this on public roads would require category A or B, not a bicycle card. That fits the thread’s overall view that this build sits far beyond ordinary e-bike territory, especially with a QS165 motor and controller settings up to 120A/240A. In practice, the project was discussed as an off-road machine, not a street-legal bicycle. [#21037280]

    How strong is a 10 mm swingarm axle for this type of bike, and why is that dimension also used in Surron, Talaria, and E-Ride models?

    The builder said a 10 mm swingarm axle is standard for this class of bike and used the same dimension here. He specifically pointed to Sur-Ron, Talaria, and E-Ride as factory examples, which suggests the dimension is considered adequate when the rest of the chassis is designed around it. The concern raised in the thread was visual delicacy, not a reported failure. [#21034275]

    What wheel size and tire size were used on this build, and how does 19-inch 70/100-19 rubber affect off-road handling?

    This bike uses 19-inch wheels with 70/100-19R tires. The thread gives no formal handling test, but that size places it in the common lightweight dirt-bike range and supports the project’s off-road intent. The hard data here are clear: 19-inch wheels, 70/100-19R rubber, and a complete bike weight of 65 kg. [#21071271]

    Where can I buy 19-inch aluminum rims like these for a DIY electric cross, and how do you lace the wheels yourself?

    The builder bought aluminum rims on Allegro, specifically rims sold for older models like Romet and WSK, and then laced them himself. A practical thread-based path is: 1. buy 19-inch aluminum rims from Allegro, 2. choose motorcycle-style sizes like 70/100-19, 3. lace the wheel yourself if you have the hub and spoke setup ready. The thread names the source, but not the spoke pattern or tool list. [#21092615]

    QS165 vs QS138 70H V3 — which motor is a better choice for a lightweight off-road electric build?

    QS165 looks better for the lightest build in this thread, while QS138 70H V3 suits a heavier, range-focused setup. The QS165 bike weighs 65 kg and uses a mid-drive plus gearing, whereas the QS138 70H V3 example weighed 108 kg with a 21S15P Samsung 40T battery, about 4.5 kWh, and roughly 100 km range at 50 km/h. Choose QS165 for minimum mass, QS138 for a bigger battery package and touring-style trail use. [#21035380]

    What is the Fardriver ND72360, and what do ratings like 190A/360A and 13 kW max actually mean in real-world use?

    The Fardriver ND72360 is the motor controller in this build, and its 190A/360A and 13 kW max figures are headline electrical limits, not the settings the rider must use. Here, the builder set it to 120A battery and 240A phase current instead, then reported that the available power was already sufficient. Real-world use depends on tuning, heat, and traction more than the biggest printed number. [#21033619]
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