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How do I build a flip-flop for the RT424F24 bistable relay?

Banan87 1968 6
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Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
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  • #1 17247477
    Banan87
    Level 12  
    Hello,
    I am in the process of implementing an installation in my own house.
    During the planning, I came to the conclusion that I will base the lighting control on short-circuit switches and bistable relays (it will be possible to control the lighting independently of the PLC even during a failure).
    I connected only a twisted-pair cable to all switches (assuming 24V control).
    I purchased the relays together with the bases:
    RT424F24 TE Conectivity
    and GZM80 bases
    However, I have encountered a problem - this relay has two coils and to change the coil position it needs a change of polarity which is difficult to do when the control is done with a single short-circuit button.
    Do you have any idea how a cheap and small flip-flop could be built to change the polarity on the coil?
    At this time the only sensible solution seems to be to replace the relays with ones whose coil is AC powered e.g. FINDER 40.52.6.024.0000 . However, this is a large cost (about 25PLN/pc with 30 relays).
    Maybe building a circuit would be cheaper?
    Has anyone solved a similar problem in their installation?
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  • #2 17247489
    daro31ie
    Automation specialist  
    Mate what coil polarity?
    What's the idea of two relay coils?
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  • #3 17247506
    Zbigniew 400
    Level 38  
    Single-coil and double-coil bistable relay. Both exist.
  • #4 17247711
    Banan87
    Level 12  
    Single-coil bistable relays also need a change of polarity to change the state of the contacts.
    An example of the Polish Relpol RMB961 - the manual says
    Quote:
    it is equipped with a single
    coil, so in order to achieve a change of position of the contacts
    its supply poles must be reversed
    .

    Does anyone know of a model of bistable relay that has a DC powered coil and does not require polarity reversal?
    I'm not hiding the fact that it would ideally fit the socket I wrote about the 5mm raster.

    Regards
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  • #5 17248059
    Zbigniew 400
    Level 38  
    Use a single coil relay and an additional 3 track relay. There can be problems when holding the button for a long time..A 555 can be used.
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  • #6 17248966
    Krzysztof Reszka
    Moderator of Electrical engineering  
    Banan87 wrote:
    Single-coil bistable relays also need a change of polarity to change the contact state.
    .
    Not true. Quote from F$F .
    Operation
    The load is switched on following a current pulse caused by
    pressing of any momentary (bell) button,
    connected to the relay. After the next pulse
    the receiver is switched off.
    The relay has no contact position "memory", i.e. in case of
    power supply outage and its return, the relay contact will be set into the off state.
    will be set in the off state. This prevents
    automatic switching on of controlled consumers without supervision
    after a long-term power failure.
  • #7 17256160
    pafciowaw
    Automation specialist  
    Col. Christopher - you are writing about an INSTALLED bistable relay (in itself it has some "executive circuit" in the form of a relay/bistable relay and a state formation/memory circuit). However, the 'executive' component, i.e. a single or dual coil bistable relay, must have an external state formation circuit....
    The proposed Finder relay (40.52.6.024.0000) will not solve the problem by itself either - it needs separate set/reset contacts. Example from the instructions:
    How do I build a flip-flop for the RT424F24 bistable relay? .
    The best solution is to forgo the "cheap" solution and use branded solutions, e.g. https://www.fif.com.pl/przekazniki-bistabilne/719-przekaznik-bistabilny-bis-411-2z-24-v.html.
    Where you would use one pair of contacts to power the device/light and the other pair of contacts for PLC input for on/off detection.

    Added after 1 [hour] 3 [minutes]: .

    I found a similar topic: https://www.elektroda.pl/rtvforum/topic2503929.html#11960290
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Topic summary

The discussion addresses the challenge of controlling RT424F24 TE Connectivity bistable relays, which have two coils requiring polarity reversal to switch states, using a single short-circuit pushbutton and a twisted-pair 24V control line. It is clarified that both single-coil and double-coil bistable relays exist, but single-coil types also require polarity change to toggle states. The user seeks a bistable relay with a DC coil that does not require polarity reversal and fits a 5mm raster socket. Suggested solutions include using a single-coil relay combined with an additional 3-pole relay or employing a 555 timer circuit to create a flip-flop for polarity switching. The proposed FINDER 40.52.6.024.0000 relay, which is AC coil powered, still requires separate set/reset contacts and does not inherently solve the problem. A recommended approach is to use branded bistable relays with integrated state memory and dual contact pairs, such as the BIS-411-2Z 24V relay from F&F, allowing independent control and PLC feedback. The discussion highlights the complexity of implementing a cheap, compact polarity-reversing flip-flop and suggests that investing in specialized bistable relays may be more practical.
Summary generated by the language model.
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