Home automation on ESP/Adriono/Sonoff/Shelly - planning and execution of switchgear

Question

I am renovating the house, electrics completely from scratch. I will add automation on ESP/Adriono/Sonoff/Shelly. The automation will control lighting and maybe heating, recuperation, maybe etc.... broad plans. Right now I'm doing the switchgear and I want to make it work the old way and then...

sk1977 · Accepted Answer

Personally, I would not go for such solutions - i.e. star installation and switchgear/control cabinet. All the more so in homemade automation (my attempt consumed an enormous amount of time, and after replacing the first device with a wireless one, I noticed that I was not even a small part of the ready-made solutions). After a similar concept (I had no star installation) I was left with hundreds of metres of unused cables in the walls - slowly everything went to wireless control. Reasons: installation and equipment costs, modifications and extensions, new equipment. The final decision was to drill the cable and replace the first device with a wireless one. After that, I was already replacing others. What I would recommend in such installations, based on my own mistakes, is to think carefully about everything, even the seemingly unimportant details. Pulse control of bistable relays - it is worth thinking about how to check the status of the relay. I wouldn't combine systems - assume an optimum power supply for your system and leave a separate one for cameras, alarms etc.

e-sparks · Accepted Answer

On the page you yourself provided you can find the Datasheet: On its first page like a bull the information: .

GanzConrad · Accepted Answer

IMO you are making the mistake of assuming that control via on/off is 'actually control': Take, for example, the sockets at the TV: - TV you switch on with remote control, set the source - receiver (some) via telnet commands, then you set the source, volume level, etc.etc. - satellite TV decoder: same thing: ETH etc. - NAS server or a dumb kettle: - just turning on the power does nothing to boil water for coffee or coffee machine: - you have to have one with an app to 'hack' it, but you still end up having to walk over to set the cup down.... Air conditioning: - IR remote thermostat/pilot managed via z-wave or ETH washing machine: same thing For me, for example, controlling the switching of lights without adjusting the brightness level is medieval and a waste of time, so I would skip even that (maybe only in justified cases) What I'm getting at is that you don't need on/off capability for everything, because you won't need it to realise even a simple control that will give you satisfaction. What good is turning on the power of a washing machine if you have to walk up and set the programme (not to mention the load)? You are more likely to need a measurement of the power consumed at the load, because then you can take some action (drop in power on the washing machine = no more washing, etc.).

sk1977 · Accepted Answer

. Along the way mandatory - as night lighting (I've already written about this), but in the bathroom itself - why? Going into the bathroom at night and fiddling with the light intensity control? Two or 3 light sources of different wattage, one (e.g. the weakest one) can be triggered by a motion detector at preset times (depending on the brightness in the bathroom) and you have comfortable use. Or a led strip near the floor triggered by a motion sensor. I have Hue at home and I can't remember the last time I used the brightness control (in any room) other than a switch programmed for several states.

Ryszard49 · Answer

marcingebus so you don't go too far wrong with this smart home. I did something like that once too, I went on holiday and the system turned off what it thought were unnecessary socket circuits. Everything I had in the fridge to be thrown away. Such good advice, power circuit for the fridge off the 'smart' system. As for the Wago system it's good and I'll even say very good but I still use zugi.

sk1977 · Answer

A star installation has a number of advantages, but it also has disadvantages - e.g. the number of cables, a large switchboard and modifying or unwinding the installation after completion can be difficult (compared to wireless solutions) - it is worth planning everything carefully so that there is no lack of space in the switchboard or cables in the walls.

xury · Answer

or walls for cables. E.g. I would go a slightly different route. Instead of pulling every circuit breaker to the switchgear I would prefer to just bring N to the boxes and use for example a Sonoff TX. All the boxes deep to possibly accommodate shelly or sonoff mini. Of course, the most sensitive and vital ones should be wired. In addition, an automation server such as Home Assistant, Domoticz, OpenHAB, etc. will become indispensable with an extensive system. Software on wireless ESPs should be standardised on Tasmot, the rest should be supplemented with zigbee devices etc. if something new is required. Use gateways like zigbee2mqtt milight hub etc.

marcingebus · Answer

However, I am making a scheme because I can still add a second switchgear over the current one if space were to run out. . Once I've done it, I'll share, maybe someone will benefit. It will be in DWG. . The version above is line 2003, this line has room for one bridge (you can half bridge), but maybe it's better to go straight to line 2005, because it has both on N and on phase room for two bridges.... Is this line 2005, some kind of total departure already?

sk1977 · Answer

A question of budget and convenience of use. Assess it yourself. Ideally you will have a diagram - it will be easier to assess the situation. Remember the space for automation.

GanzConrad · Answer

. What cables will go to the switches? Twisted pair is used for automation, and conventionally 3x1.5mm.kw, so you'll need to reconcile the transition option somehow. Do a search on the forum there was a thread about things you need to anticipate when laying such an installation and a list of devices you can control in the future.

bhtom · Answer

Welcome, Myself, doing a smart home for myself, I would not mount the switchboard on the wall, but would put a normal control cabinet.... Regards.

marcingebus · Answer

I need to adopt some sort of relay control standard for lighting. Now from switches and in the future from some automation rather mine on ESP/Shelly etc... what would you guys adopt 12V DC, 24V DC or otherwise? Someday I'll put a small gym on 48V DC for the cameras, then maybe 48V? Do I not mess around and find it easier to embrace 12V from my own automation? Do I totally unmix and not combine systems because a different screw is better for each hole anyway?

marcingebus · Answer

I attach the project. It shows the switchgear that will serve the Ground Floor. I still have a main switchboard on the property which via C25 feeds this switchboard, a switchboard in the utility room/garage and there will be a switchboard on the first floor which will serve the heat pump, PV and sockets and lighting on the first floor as well as one external circuit. In this scheme I still need to give the outside sockets under the relay and a selected socket/s in the house under which the iron will be likely to be plugged. The whole thing can work autonomously independently of the automation, and I will connect the automation, which will be able to act like a bell switch by supplying 12V and test the state of the relay contacts. All the outputs to the top (purple) are to the automation, which I will probably do in a different place, because that's where the reed switches from the doors will come down, maybe from the motion sensors.... etc.. The diagram doesn't show the power supply, which of course has to be there. I'm unlikely to use a circuit breaker on the input, as it's better to de-energise the power cables as well, and I can do that in the main switchboard where I have 3x c25 and maybe add some Type1+Typ2 300mA/voltage surge. .

sk1977 · Answer

Schematic as described in the first post, may be useful for selection of some components - e.g. switchgear. What is missing is the most important thing - automation. It is it that will determine the satisfaction or not of the whole. Do you have a concept (algorithm) of operation? The vision in the first post is also more about execution than concept of action. It is important what and how you want to control (this you have shown on the diagrams), what kind of information you want to collect (reed switches, switches, motion detectors - and, for example, control by app, by voice). What additional elements are you planning? Air-conditioning, heating, humidifiers, purifiers, automatic hoovers, some audio, roller shutters, alarm, carbon monoxide/gas sensors, flooding, some electro-valves, etc., etc.?

marcingebus · Answer

I see that the diagram has an error: - relays P1..P15 (also lier small) will be bistable, like for lighting, to control bell switches. One end of the coil permanently to minus the other controlled by a pulse from a switch, or automation. - Contact 11 of the relay gives state to the automation, when off it is ground and when on it was supposed to give PLUSA. But I connected a control pulse. Instead, a plus should be applied to terminal 14.

marcingebus · Answer

I still have a question for experts on the subject of relays. Instead of a relay dedicated to lighting, can such relays for example be used via a TH35 base: I don't care if they have an available socket and sufficient current-carrying capacity. I assume that a diode would be useful, but something more ? A 12v single coil control (to reduce the number of control wires from the automation). Do you need to change polarity there ? to change state ?

marcingebus · Answer

On the page you have provided yourself you can find the Datasheet: On its first page like a bull the information: . MeaCupa, sorry.

marcingebus · Answer

. You've inspired me and I googled to look for dimmers and use dimmers instead of relays. Controlled by monostable/bell buttons they can also be controlled from my automation. There's the F&F, there's the zamel DIM-20 and the DIM-30. There's also some Finder from the 15 series, but it requires a master module and the price kills enthusiasm. The DIM-30 for £200 is still acceptable. Now you can control the bells, and then you can work 0-10V from your automation. In general, I want something that is reasonably open, inexpensive and energy-efficient. I will certainly buy the bulbs all new, so I can choose LEDs that will work with dimmers. My automation, this will be: - in terms of local lighting and remote switching, switching at preset times and the ideal would be switching with motion sensors/contactors. There could be a soft start. Brightening/dimming, not necessarily everywhere, but some living room, bedroom/room, maybe terrace. - in terms of heating - I'll add something there, but it's beyond the scope of this switchboard, - I don't want KNX and similar solutions because I think I'd rather spend a fortune I don't have in a different way. I don't want to control a washing machine, kettle etc. I want to do some sort of installation that, in its simplicity, will work and allow me to connect with something more intelligent one day. Perhaps some kind of single socket (series connected under one fuse) switchable as I wrote earlier.

sk1977 · Answer

- star installation alone is not a cheap solution. Building your own systems may not be cheaper than off-the-shelf solutions either. Automation alone does not have a significant impact on energy consumption, it depends mainly on the consumers and the way you control them - running time. There is a lot to be gained from heating. - KNX is expensive, but there are also much cheaper systems. Perhaps cheaper than a star installation . Think beforehand how you want to control the brightness - a bell switch is not convenient - how do you want to control the brightness with it? Other solutions may require additional cables, for example. A lot depends on the planned automation. This is probably the most important element. The rest may depend on it.

marcingebus · Answer

I came across a DimmerBox solution, similar to Zamel, but with Wifi and an interent app. It seems, for use with bell switches, what do you think?

sk1977 · Answer

It's a good solution as an aftermarket dimmer - and that's its purpose - for so-called new type installations. To use it via WiFi, you must provide it with a suitable signal level - in a metal cabinet there will be a problem. To control it, you can use a double bell switch and therefore a suitable cable (min. 3 wires). This already makes sense, but the ergonomics of use are still a bit limited. When it comes to brightness control - for me the benchmark of ergonomics is, for example, the Philips HUE wireless dimmer - 4 buttons: off, 2 from brightness, the third on and programmable in the brightness app (e.g. one click last brightness, 2 max, 3 medium, 4 night light). In addition, it can be removed from the wall and taken away. You can control one bulb or several, or have several remote controls for one bulb.

marcingebus · Answer

. Looks cool, inexpensive. But the catch as I noted is in the bulbs 200£/pc, 1500£/lamp.... The fall out. I know Philips has to make money on something. My solution is to be independent of the manufacturer. Today there will be such a bulb and tomorrow an LED strip etc.... . Maybe I'll buy one for myself as a trial, some relay to try. I won't have dimming everywhere. I'll print out on a printer mozing on TH35, or come up with something else. I still have a few days to think about it. The circuit needs to be able to be controlled by something I do (e.g. turning off a light when I trigger an alarm (I'll put out the right signal from the alarm system and my automation will handle that. Maybe flickering all the lights when the alarm goes off? These are the sorts of ideas I have. Door contacts... Lower brightness glow at night from the motion detector. You wake up at night and want to go to the kitchen, the toilet, the phone. Normal strong light will dazzle, you need some. Maybe a system has something like this, but it has to be open to signals from other sources. If anyone has any ideas, throw them around, or any other suggestions.

xury · Answer

If you want to use the sensors from the alarm to automate your home, then as I wrote before, use the Satel ETHM-1 integration with one of the systems mentioned in my previous post. Then you don't need to do any wireframing. A difficult topic at first, but will allow you to spread your wings over time. In my opinion.

sk1977 · Answer

- this was just an example of functionality - if you will be doing automation - you can use the principle. I have not yet added that all light changes are soft. This system is wireless by design - and you are doing the opposite, so it is unlikely to be of any use. - so you have to design it yourself - we don't know what you'll do, or on what hardware. A lot can be done on a control panel for example - for example here's an example of a project: - you can get ideas too. - this is where floor lighting works well - e.g. an LED strip near the floor or low level lights. - here you go: smoke/fire gas detectors, flooding + solenoid valves to close if flooding or gas/carbon monoxide is detected. If you have roller shutters, these can also be controlled. As for light, it's a good idea to be able to change the warm/cold colour in some rooms. Flashing lights with an alarm is hardly useful - a good siren (or several) will draw attention better and be immediately associated with the alarm. I'm not writing about automation or control - that's a matter of automation.

GanzConrad · Answer

. Consider how many traditional 230V incandescent bulbs you'll have, or how much patience you'll have to test LED bulbs that only have dimmable in their name, but are really just wasting our time and money. I quickly got tired of investigating which LEd bulb is really dimmable and which has nothing to do with it at all, and again which works smoothly across the whole range (I haven't found one...). To conclude the long-winded argument: think about controlling LEDs (e.g. strips) 12/24V via all kinds of LED dimmers of the type : I have experience with Fibaro RGB controller, in which instead of RGB you can set the control of 4 separate white tapes, but for you there is a huge variety of solutions based on WiFi (ESP) and considering the variety of ready-made products on the market it is worth considering whether to switch to this type of lighting, even using lamps made of wide profiles:

marcingebus · Answer

Your suggestion is to go for 12V LEDs: strips, incandescent bulbs. Tapes are somehow available, but a first glance at incandescent bulbs - in the sense of light sources, then some traditional fixture, for this to have power in the equivalent of 50-100W, is poor..... Have you replaced everything in the house with 12V LEDs ?

GanzConrad · Answer

. No, I make my own lights - I don't recommend , so now with the last few years in mind I would consider whether it is worth standardising all the lighting to at least 12/24V strips (I didn't mention 12V bulbs, but they may exist), or using 12V panels like the following: Of course, I'm only talking about cases where you want dimming - because where it will be on/off it doesn't matter. Tapes can be selected in terms of wattage and, above all, the quality of light is no longer an issue - you can easily find those with high CRI and those on MCPCB substrate - a matter of budget. With panels it is worse because the CRI is random or you have to search. The Dimmerbox you mention is a triac dimmer and is only suitable in practice for traditional incandescent bulbs - if someone can show me an LED bulb that really works with it, not just pretends to and still doesn't cost a fortune, I'd be happy to use it.

sk1977 · Answer

LED strips are not suitable everywhere - it is a question of the specific room and its purpose and preferences. Then there is the individual question of the aesthetics of the interior - but that is another story altogether. Dimmable light isn't needed everywhere either - for example, with 2 different light sources you already have 3 levels of lighting. If you plan it right, this should be enough for comfortable use in many rooms. Do you need infinitely variable control in e.g. the kitchen, bathroom, hallway? Led strips or adjustable brightness work well as supplementary light - especially if it has the possibility of adjusting the hue (warm) or colour. 12/24V leds require a power supply (they are also available for 230V) and a controller for which space must be provided. There is also the issue of controlling the LEDs. Depending on the room (size, purpose), you can use ordinary main lighting + adjustable supplementary lighting, e.g. to light up a wall or make strips at the floor. Of the cheaper ones than Philips HUE, you can look at Ikea Tradfre - when used in several places, the cost will not be overwhelming - but it is also a wireless solution.

GanzConrad · Answer

mandatory - evening/night trips by household members .

Home automation on ESP/Adriono/Sonoff/Shelly - planning and execution of switchgear

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