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PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

mako122 27177 91
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  • #1
    mako122
    Level 11  
    In this topic I will put all the information and photos related to the repair of the AdBlue tank in the PEUGEOT BOXER III.
    I hope that someone from my colleagues will find this material helpful in a similar repair.

    ATTENTION VERY IMPORTANT INFORMATION:
    I put this information here so that colleagues who will try to repair the tank do not make such a mistake as me.
    After repairing the tank, I found the errors I had (these were text messages on the dashboard:
    1) check the AdBlue system, see manual
    2) check the engine
    3) 300 km to stop the engine
    4) orange engine light is on permanently)
    They will disappear by themselves !!!! Unfortunately, I was wrong because despite the fixed AdBlue system, messages were still displayed. Clearing all the errors via the service computer has made the AdBlue system no longer reporting any errors and I have now driven 500 km since the repair and everything seems to be OK.


    Update after the next month and the next 2,000 km.
    Everything is great!! no errors. Gentlemen, do not be afraid of repair, if only someone has a little patience and can unscrew a few screws, it is worth trying. The description below is detailed and it's hard to make any mistakes. There is also no problem with accessing someone who will delete the errors. If someone is from the vicinity of Krosno (Podkarpackie Province), I can provide you with information on a really good specialist who can erase mistakes and help you understand the topic from this side !! There is a large selection of used tanks on the Allegro and with a high degree of probability it will be possible to "two make one good". I bought a damaged one for PLN 400 which was the donor of parts for my tank.



    Not all information that I will post is 100% certain, so please correct me if someone has proven knowledge on this subject.
    I am looking for service information and a diagram of the electronic board controlling the AdBlue pump.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER
    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER
    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER
    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER



    He is also looking for information about the tank venting procedure.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Before repairing the tank, it's worth watching this video: https://youtu.be/UmnpfIcHvlU

    Removing the tank from the car
    ==========================
    In order to repair the tank, it is necessary to remove the tank from the car. First, disconnect the battery and disconnect the cube supplying the tank marked as A.
    See pictures below:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Then we need to drain the AdBlue fluid from the tank. To do this, unscrew the screw securing the plug.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Turn the cap to the position shown in the photo below:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    and slightly swinging movements remove the plug from its seat.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    If we want to speed up the flow of fluid, please unscrew the blue filler cap AdBlue !!!!!
    Then we put something under the tank so that it does not fall too much and unscrew the 4 screws securing the tank with a 13 key

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Now disconnect two tubes, one for the infusion and the other for venting (they are next to each other). You do not need any tools for this, the tubes are quick-release couplings. Just press with your fingers in the right place and the tube will pop out.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    We lower the tank with one side lower to have better access to the tube and connector on the other side of the tank. Disconnect the tube and connector and take out the tank. The car can be driven, but after some time an AdBlue system failure message will appear and the countdown to immobilize the car will start. We still have the possibility to travel 400 km.

    Below is a view of the chassis after removing the tank:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The tank is screwed to the black frame finished with four pins (red points) with 4 screws.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    A - quick coupler on the conduit which supplies urea under pressure to the injector. Next to it, there is a cube for powering the heating circuit.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    B - The urea filler tube with the end extends upward for the urea filler.
    E - tube quick coupler B.
    C - quick coupler of the tank venting tube.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER
    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    D - tank supply cable with a plug.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER





    Description of the electronic board:

    The electronics located on the board manage the operation of the tank and send information on the status of the tank via the CAN bus to the car's central computer. It reads data from two temperature sensors, one pressure sensor and one fluid level sensor in the tank. It controls one pump, one solenoid valve, and seven urea heating circuits.
    The board has 4 connectors for communication with the above-mentioned elements. See the photo of the board (connectors J1 and J2 and two edge connectors J3 and J4)

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER


    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Description of J1 pins in the order shown in the photo from top to bottom:

    1 - thick black - tank feed - minus
    2 - thinner black - heating of the urea tube between the tank and the urea injector - minus
    3 - thin blue CAN bus
    4 - thin white CAN bus
    5 - green - heating of the urea tube between the tank and the urea injector - plus
    6 - thick red - power supply to the tank + 12V

    A urea hose runs between the AdBlue tank (near the fuel tank) and the urea injector (near the engine) (see figure below in the appendix - item marked as 26), which is prone to freezing in winter. Urea freezes at a temperature below -11 "C and therefore the entire length of the urea tube is heated by a resistance wire fused into the tube. Pins 2 and 5 of J1 junction supply this resistance wire. It is one of the seven urea heating circuits and the only external circuit for the rest The 6 urea heating circuits are located inside the AdBlue tank.

    NOTE IMPORTANT: supplying the tank + 12 V the connector J1 (6 - red) appears after turning the key and supplies the tank. The car's central computer waits for a CAN response from the AdBlue tank. If there is no answer, the car's computer disconnects the + 12V power supply of the tank. It may be misunderstood by the car repairman that the cause of the problem is a lack of +12 power on connector J1. To sum up, if there is no communication between the tank and the car, or the tank is disconnected and removed, the voltage will appear on the J1 to 6 (+ 12V) connectors only for a few seconds and then disappear.

    J2 pinout description (see photo)

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    1) yellow-green steam (100W heater power supply) urea heating in the tank near the filter through which the pump sucks urea.
    The heater is an 8X8 cm plate with a system of resistance paths and is used to defrost the local urea in the tank near the urea intake by the pump. In severe frost, the urea in the entire tank (16l) may freeze and this heating plate locally melts the ice near the filter so that the pump can suck in urea. The heater is located in the non-removable part of the tank and it is impossible to get to it without cutting the tank open !!!!! Like a level sensor and two temperature sensors !!!!
    A plate heater is the second heating element out of seven.
    2) pair of black (minus) - green-yellow (plus) wires power supply to the pump motor.
    3) the gray-red pair is the tube heating feed between the urea-immersed filter and the pump (see photo below). This is the third heating element out of seven.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Description of the pins of connector J3, the order shown in the photo from bottom to top. Downstairs is # 1 !!!!!! (look at the picture)

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    contact No. 1 (first from the bottom !!!) black ground - solenoid valve control.
    red contact no. 2 plus red - solenoid valve control.

    the next contacts supply the four remaining out of the seven heating circuits:
    - white circuit - pair 3 and 7 (white wires)
    - blue circuit - pair 4 and 8 (blue wires)
    - green circuit - pair 5 and 9 (green wires)
    - yellow circuit - pair 6 and 10 (yellow wires)
    As can be seen from the track system, the four above-mentioned heating systems are turned on together with the same signal and always work together. If one is shorted, the other three will be short !!!!

    Four of the above-mentioned heating circuits (white, blue, green and yellow) heat the 4 urea flow points (see photos below)

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    - the white heating circuit heats urea in a tube (elbow) at the outlet from the tank.
    - the green heating circuit heats the urea pump.
    - yellow heating circuit heats up the place near the solenoid valve and pressure sensor.
    - blue heating circuitheats the urea accumulator (a small container with a glass capacity in which urea is at a pressure of about 5-6 bar)







    Description of pins of connector J4 in the order shown in the photo from bottom to top. Downstairs is # 1 !!!!!! (look at the picture)

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    contact no. 1 (first from the bottom !!!) red supply plus - urea pressure sensor.
    contact no. 2 black power supply minus - pressure sensor.
    contact no. 3 yellow signal (data) from pressure sensor.
    The sensor measures the urea pressure supplied to the injector (it should be about 5-6 bar). The pump pumps the urea into a small tank called an accumulator in which the urea is under a pressure of 5-6 bar. In the following, I will describe the principle of operation in detail.

    -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- --------
    brown contact no. 4 - the temperature sensor is located near the filter and measures the urea temperature in the tank at the point where it is taken by the pump.
    light brown contact no.5 - temperature sensor - other end (pair 4 and 5)
    Note: The temperature sensor is located at the bottom of the tank and there is no access to it !!! You have to cut open the tank to get to it !!!!
    -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ---------
    contact No. 6 yellow - the temperature sensor is located in the central part of the heating plate (described above) and measures the temperature of the heating plate itself. (measures the temperature of the heating element, not the urea temperature like the one described above !!!)
    contact No. 7 blue - temperature sensor - other end (pair 6 and 7)
    Note: as above - no access to the sensor, you have to cut the tank !!!!
    -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ---------
    contact no. 8 signal (data) - level sensor (hall effect sensor cooperates with a float in which there is a permanent magnet).
    contact No. 9 white - not used !!!
    contact no.10 black power supply to the level sensor minus (ground)
    red contact no. 11 power supply for the plus level sensor
    Note: The level sensor is located next to the heating plate at the bottom of the tank and cannot be accessed !!! You have to cut open the tank
    to get to it !!!!

    Below are photos of sensors and a heating plate. Access to these items is not available !!! You need to cut open the tank and remove a part of the housing to make the sensors visible because they are tightly closed in a plastic can.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    100W heating plate and photo of the temperature sensor placed directly on the heating plate:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER


    Temperature sensor that measures the temperature of the fluid (urea) near the filter through which the pump takes urea:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The place where the urea temperature sensor is located is marked in red. It is the outside of the sensor box that is in direct contact with the urea. The sensor measures the temperature of the urea through the wall of the box, therefore there is a bulge here for better contact with the liquid.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The photo also shows the float chamber of the urea level sensor.

    The urea level sensor consists of a chamber in which a float with a permanent magnet is placed (the chamber is in direct contact with urea and a plate with a Hall sensor which is closed in a sealed housing:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Float with a permanent magnet visible inside:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    As I wrote earlier, we cannot access the above-mentioned sensors without cutting the tank open. We can measure only 3 connection cubes at the end of the wiring harness that enters the chamber located at the top of the tank, where the electronics and the pump are located. The yellow element is the port where the pump takes AdBlue from the tank, and the filter is attached to the port on the other side.
    Look at the picture:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Photo of a bundle with 3 cubes:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    White cube - power supply to the heating plate
    Black cube - fluid level sensor
    Gray cube - two temperature sensors (yellow cables - temperature sensor on the heating plate, blue cables - AdBlue fluid temperature sensor)

    TESTING elements that are not accessible without cutting the tank open.
    ================================================== ==============
    We test on the above-mentioned white, black and gray cubes

    The white cube comes with two slightly thicker wires directly from the urea heating plate.
    Board power 100 W
    12 V power supply
    Measurement with an ohmmeter should show about 1.8 ohms both ways, of course. There are no security etc. on the way.

    Two pairs of wires enter the gray cube:
    yellow steam from the temperature sensor located in the center of the heating plate - about 11 k ohms at a temperature of about 17 degrees C.
    blue steam urea temperature sensor - about 3 kilohms in the above-mentioned temperature.

    The black cube includes three wires from the level sensor.
    black minus
    red plus
    white signal
    the fluid level sensor is a hall effect sensor. It is made of several elements. We can only test the resistance between the wires. In the direction of conduction:
    red-white - about 900 ohms
    red-black - about 900 ohms
    white - black - about 800 ohms
    high resistance in the obstructive direction.


    Photo of the chamber with sensors seen from above (sensors and heating plate are on the other side):

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    A - float chamber.
    B - fluid level sensor located on the other side.
    C - urea temperature sensor located on the underside.
    D - marked place where there is a heating plate on the bottom.

    The chamber is covered with a white plate with a spring. Inside the spring there is a filter through which urea is collected by the pump:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER


    Description of the AdBlue level sensor operation.
    ===========================================
    The tank has a capacity of about 16 liters, which allows you to drive about 6,000 km without refueling with urea.
    The level sensor is placed in the tank at about halfway up the tank and the float can move about 6 cm up and down in its chamber. For this reason, the sensor does not read the fluid level in the tank from 0 to 16 liters, but only works within a certain range.
    If there are 8 or more liters of urea in the tank, the float is always in the maximum upper position and it is not possible to read exactly how much urea is in the tank (e.g. it can be 8 or it can be 16 liters !!!). In such a case, the electronics receives a signal that the urea is more than 8 liters (how much more? He does not know it !!) He only recognizes that everything is OK for sure. No message will appear on the instrument panel until the urea level is below 8 liters !!
    When the urea level drops below 8 liters, the float begins to slowly drop and the car receives information that there is urea left in the tank for 2400 km, this causes the AdBlue indicator to light for a moment and the message that we can drive another 2400 km appears. As the float goes down, further messages appear that we can cover less kilometers. This happens until the swimmer reaches the bottom position, then a message appears that we can still run 600 km. In this case, the AdBlue light is on all the time and a message will appear every 50 km that you need to add AdBlue.
    After driving 600 km, a message will appear that the car has been blocked. You need to add at least 4 liters of fluid to unlock the car.

    Description of the operation of the hydraulic system located in the tank
    ================================================
    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The hydraulic system includes:
    1) a urea filter located in the non-removable part of the tank.
    2) Pump driven by a small DC electric motor.
    3) solenoid valve.
    4) pressure sensor.
    5) urea accumulator (a small container the size of a glass in which urea is under a pressure of about 5-6 bar, one side of which is a plunger on which pressure is applied by a pre-compressed spring). The structure of the urea accumulator resembles a syringe in which a pre-compressed spring presses the plunger. When charging the battery, the piston moves under the influence of the AdBlue fluid pumped by the pump against the pressure generated by the spring. Due to the spring, the urea in the accumulator remains under a constant pressure of 6 bar. This solution means that the electric pump is not working all the time, it is only started for a moment to replenish the urea in the battery.

    The principle of operation of the entire urea dosing system is quite simple. The urea is taken from the reservoir by the pump and pumped into the accumulator. The pump runs until it builds up a pressure of about 6 bar in the accumulator. The pressure in the accumulator is monitored by a pressure sensor. To prevent urea (which is pressurized) from flowing back into the reservoir from the battery, there is a solenoid valve between the battery and the pump.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Click on the picture.

    The gear pump is not a tight pump, I mean the state when the pump does not pump itthe liquid already pumped into the battery can easily squeeze between the gears and return to the tank.
    For this reason, a solenoid valve is required which in this case prevents the backflow of urea already pumped into the accumulator.


    The following duty cycle is performed:
    The pressure sensor constantly monitors the pressure in the accumulator. While driving, the urea under pressure is fed to the urea injector, which injects subsequent portions as needed, which causes a drop in urea pressure in the accumulator. If the pressure drops to the lower limit, the solenoid valve opens and the pump recharges the battery. After charging the battery, the pump stops and the solenoid valve closes. This state continues until the urea pressure in the accumulator drops again, and the cycle repeats.



    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Picture description:
    A + B - battery
    part A - round box contains a spring with a piston.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    part B - contains a chamber inside the size of a glass filled with urea. One side of the chamber is a plunger.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Between parts A and B there is a metal ring connecting both parts and a rubber cap is placed on the piston, which acts as a seal. It prevents urea from getting into the spring can. See pictures below:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    In the photos below, the damaged engine (it was flooded with urea for a long time and was subject to corrosion):

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER
    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The protective diode visible in the photo is TRANSIL BIDIRECTIONAL P6KE

    Wikipedia:
    Transil (Transient Voltage Suppressor, TVS) - a specialized diode that protects sensitive electronic components from the effects of overvoltages, often used to suppress overvoltages and high voltage pulses. It works like a varistor, but is much faster than it. After exceeding the threshold voltage, it begins to conduct rapidly. The main advantage of the TRANSIL is a very short reaction time - on the order of 1 picosecond. The popular 1.5KE series allows you to dissipate 1500 W of peak power for a short time. Transil can be both unidirectional and bidirectional.

    Pump:
    It is a simple gear pump. One rack is driven by the motor (shown above) and the other rack is driven directly by the first rack. See https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pompa_z%C4%99bata

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER
    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The outer wall of the pump contains a heating element (green circuit). Two visible holes secured with O-rings. With one, urea is sucked into the pump, and with the other, urea is forced through the pump gears to the accumulator.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The pump body in which the motor is located.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Pump chamber in which two gears work. Sealing - purple O-ring.

    A pressure sensor:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The socket in which the pressure sensor is placed:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The sensor has a sealing O-ring, is pushed into the socket and is secured with two screws.
    There is a problem with unscrewing these screws because they have unusual heads.

    Electrovalve:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Solenoid valve seat:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Similar assembly as the pressure sensor and the same problem with unscrewing by unusual screw heads !!!

    All the above-mentioned elements are mounted to the body made of plastic with channels through which urea flows from the pump to the accumulator. Due to the large number of hydraulic connections (O-rings and quick couplings), urea leaks may appear which causes corrosion. The disassembly of the tank is simple, no special tools are required. All screws have torx heads except the four I wrote about earlier. You have to keep the assembly very clean because there are many seals on the O-rings and even a hair that comes under the O-ring can cause leakage.




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  • #2
    melas
    Level 31  
    Hello
    I have not yet come across a description or a detailed diagram of electronic modules used in cars, only residual information in the service diagrams that, for example, voltage comes from the electronic block or from the transducer or from the relay. The rest are installation diagrams, descriptions of cubes, etc.
    It also resuscitates these adblue systems, unfortunately you have to act based on your own trials and experiences. I work mainly in the PSA group, a lot of measurements, you have to write down mainly the voltage levels from well-working sensors in order to have a comparison when looking for the damaged ones. Pump, pressure sensor, injection heater easy to check. Electronics, if it is corroded by urea fumes, it is better to give it up forever. Unfortunately, this is their disadvantage. That's probably all I can add.

    Added after 31 [seconds]:

    Added after 8 [minutes]:

    And I will add that the NOX probe is connected to the same CAN and sometimes you have a communication error with the NOX system, it applies to both the probe and the module and one is damaged, e.g.
  • #3
    mako122
    Level 11  
    melas wrote:
    Hello
    I have not yet come across a description or a detailed diagram of electronic modules used in cars, only residual information in the service diagrams that, for example, voltage comes from the electronic block or from the transducer or from the relay. The rest are installation diagrams, descriptions of cubes, etc.
    It also resuscitates these adblue systems, unfortunately you have to act based on your own trials and experiences. I work mainly in the PSA group, a lot of measurements, you have to write down mainly the voltage levels from well-working sensors in order to have a comparison when looking for the damaged ones. Pump, pressure sensor, injection heater easy to check. Electronics, if it is corroded by urea fumes, it is better to give it up forever. Unfortunately, this is their disadvantage. That's probably all I can add.

    Added after 31 [seconds]:


    Thank you for your response. Please follow what he writes and if something is wrong, please correct it, because I do not want to mislead the readers. I have been struggling with this topic for quite a long time and I have figured out the topic a bit, so maybe someone will need this knowledge.
    I have a question. If I replace the electronic board with another one from a different tank, is it necessary to adapt?
  • #4
    melas
    Level 31  
    You replace and there are no adaptations. Only NOX system reset and system refilling after assembly.
  • #5
    mako122
    Level 11  
    Here I will put all the information I was able to get about the SCR UNIT board, components used in its construction, etc.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Block diagram:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR)

    How the SCR block works
    The SCR block controls a pump that takes AdBlue from its tank and injects it with a metering valve, into the diesel exhaust gas. To optimize fuel consumption, the gas sensor is downstream of the catalytic reduction process and its information is sent to the diesel engine ECU, which links this information with the engine status and provides the SCR unit with precise information on the correct amount of AdBlue to be administered.

    1) control unit (on the block diagram) on the board marked as U300 to 16-bit Microcontrollers with R8C CPU Core marked as R5F21368WKFP

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    2) pump driver - consists of the controller and the H bridge

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    control system (marked as U320) is L99H01 - Motor Bridge Driver For Automotive Applications
    block diagram of the L99H01 controller:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    H bridge is the four MOSFETs labeled Q321, Q322, Q323 and Q 324 are STD95N4F

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    H-bridge allows you to change the direction of rotation of the engine click on the animation below:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The question is, what was the H-bridge used for? Maybe some of your colleagues know the answer?
    The engine is powered by two wires green-yellow and the second black .
    If there is a minus on the black, the pump charges the accumulator and generates the necessary pressure.
    When the poles of the supply are reversed, the pump works "backwards", that is, it lowers the pressure and pumps urea into the tank.
    It is possible that after turning off the engine it is supposed to prevent high pressure in the accumulator and the supply line of the injector and the injector itself? Maybe some of your colleagues know what's going on here?

    3) valve driver - solenoid valve driver marked as U340 this VN5E160A

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    block diagram of the VN5E160A controller:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER


    Heating up

    4) heaters driver - the heating controller - consists of two systems. One is the 100W 12V heater plate driver marked as U200 it is the arrangement VN5E010FH

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    the second is a system for heating the conduit between the tank and the injector, approx. 2 m long. The conduit runs under the chassis and is exposed to freezing, therefore it is heated along its entire length. It is the only heating circuit outside the tank. The control of this circuit is located outside the tank through the J1 pin 2 and 5 connector (see photo below)

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Three elements marked in the photo as:
    U210 - VN5E010FN - the circuit already described above and
    U211 and U212 - VND14NV04
    This circuit also includes a current shunt R220 with the value of R010, which is used to measure the current consumed by the heating cable, and more precisely to control this circuit. The voltage drop that occurs on R220 is read by the microcontroller and on this basis the processor checks back the correct operation of this heating circuit, detects a break or damage.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    5) tank pipes heaters - heating the pipes in the tank - the heating circuits are controlled by the system U230 - VND7140AJ12

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    System VND7140AJ12 is a double channel high-side driver with CurrentSense analog
    feedback for automotive applications). One channel (path marked in red) feeds the heating cable between the tank and the pump (black connection cube on gray pipes) See photo below:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The second channel (path marked in blue) supplies 4 heating circuits, previously described as white, green, blue and yellow heating circuits. See the picture below:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The yellow path is a common minus for 4 circuits.

    6) CAN bus - layout on the board with the designation U350 this TJA1057 (High-speed CAN transceiver)

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The area surrounded by red dots are elements of the CAN input track terminated with the U350 chip.
    CAN is located on J1 connector pins 3 and 4.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER


    POWER
    -------------------------------------------

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The entire electronic board is powered by 12V on pins 1 and 6 of the J1 connector. There are two main circuits:
    one high-current 12V and the other low-current 5V stabilized which supplies the microcontroller and systems directly cooperating with the microcontroller (fluid level sensor, CAN temperature sensors, etc.)
    After turning the key in the ignition switch, the microcontroller is first activated, which is supplied with + 5V. The source of this voltage is the system U120 - L4993 is a highly specialized 5V voltage stabilizer, especially recommended for powering microcontrollers due to additional functions such as reset and watchdog.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    On the PCB above the chip U120 there is a second + 5V stabilizer U130 it is an arrangement L5150 GJ

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    The 12 V high current circuit is controlled by the microcontroller through a relay RL110 - OMRON G8NB - 1 .
    It should be assumed that the relay powers the high-current circuit (pump, solenoid valve, heating circuits) only under certain circumstances and not permanently, otherwise there would be no point in placing the relay in the circuit.

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    cdn ..................

    Prepares a block diagram and tips on how to check individual parts. At the moment, I have little time for it, but if anyone has a problem, please write, I will try to help.
  • #6
    melas
    Level 31  
    Hello
    Respect for developing the topic.
    I did not delve into this electronics so deeply, in my opinion, the pump moves in one direction and the pressure is regulated by the solenoid valve (pressure regulator), which is in the system, it also makes no sense to control the pump in both directions.
    Regards Miras
  • #7
    mako122
    Level 11  
    melas wrote:
    Hello
    Respect for developing the topic.
    I did not delve into this electronics so deeply, in my opinion, the pump rather goes one way and the pressure is regulated by the solenoid valve (pressure regulator) which is in the system, so there is no point in controlling the pump in both directions.
    Regards Miras


    Thanks for your interest in the topic. All this electronics seems to me to be grossly exaggerated compared to what it is supposed to do !!
    I did not expect that the control of this engine would be so complicated. It looks like it has the ability to change direction because why this H-bridge? Or maybe I don't know something? Maybe such a bridge can perform some other function? It seems that the microprocessor can also control the number of revolutions of the motor, i.e. the efficiency of the pump, which I don't think is really needed. I am waiting for further comments, maybe we can work out the topic together. Regards.
  • #8
    mako122
    Level 11  
    melas wrote:
    You replace and there are no adaptations. Only NOX system reset and system refilling after assembly.


    I am asking for information whether the NOX system reset is necessary? If I do not reset the system, will it not "start"?
    As for bleeding, it was so for me that he showed errors while driving, but as he covered the next kilometers, everything returned to normal. I explain it as, over time, the air was removed by the injector and urea entered the air. Is it possible?
  • #9
    romano713
    Level 2  
    Hello, thank you for the information and the work done. I have a similar problem, low urea pressure error (peugeot 508). After briefly disconnecting the connector at the tank for about 30 seconds, you can test (diagbox) urea efficiency - you can hear the pump work about 5.6 bar, control of the injector relay - you can hear a ticking sound. After these 30 seconds, you hear the RL 110 disconnect and the pressure drops to 4 bar, urea temperature to 0 C. This urea control board locks up. I am asking for advice, is it possible to provide a permanent voltage to this relay or how to unlock?
    Regards.
  • #10
    mako122
    Level 11  
    romano713 wrote:
    Hello, thank you for the information and the work done. I have a similar problem, low urea pressure error (peugeot 508). After a short disconnection of the connector at the tank for about 30 seconds, you can test (diagbox) urea efficiency - you can hear the pump work about 5.6 bar, control of the injector relay - you can hear a ticking sound. After these 30 seconds, you hear the RL 110 disconnect and the pressure drops to 4 bar, urea temperature to 0 C. This urea control board locks up. I am asking for advice, is it possible to provide a permanent voltage to this relay or how to unlock?
    Regards.


    Did you take the tank apart? If not, that's where to start. At least a visual inspection of the electronics is necessary. It is very common for the tile to splash because there is some leakage. If you wait and combine, you will make a mistake like me. The plaque will be damaged by urea. You can easily give a permanent 12V to the relay, but it will not do anything. I suspect that there is a leak that, if not detected in time, will destroy the electronics. The basis is to disassemble the tank, unscrew 12 screws and look into the chamber where the pump and electronics are.
    Check under the car for urea leakage near the injector or in the pipe between the tank and the injector.
    You can see very characteristic white urea crystals.
    One more note as the pressure drops to 4 bar, the pressure is also 0 bar because it never shows below 4 bar. Even if the pump was not there, you will also have 4 !!!
    The second comment I wrote about above is that there is something wrong with the tank or the tank cannot get along with the car's central computer via CAN, the central computer cuts off the power to the tank after a fairly short time and the tank is without power. You would have to check with you if you still have voltage at connector J1 after these 30 seconds

    The RL110 relay is controlled by a microcontroller, you can cut the path and connect it permanently to 12V, but I am convinced that it will not do anything. Since the microcontroller decides to disconnect this circuit, it will probably make other decisions, for example, it will not control the pump, because why, if it deprived the pump of the power supply a moment earlier !!!
  • #11
    romano713
    Level 2  
    I disassembled the tank three times, no leaks were visible, I checked the valve, pump, pipeline patency and the injector. I emptied and filled the tank physically about 10l and the diagbox. I was pounding on Tunapa. Like you, I suggest that the urea controller cannot get along with the car's ECU. In the denox parameters 1: Estimated aging of the heat catalyst -100%. Maybe the ECU is programmed that you need to replace the tank programmatically in the service? Also, I am not sure if the battery condition matters, because it is about 60% and it quickly enters the energy saving state. In my free time, I will take the tank off again and check all parameters with the meter.
  • #12
    mako122
    Level 11  
    romano713 wrote:
    Maybe the ECU is programmed that you need to replace the tank programmatically in the service?


    In my opinion no! Even the replacement of the electronic board does not require any special actions. And have you tried to reset or perform the bleeding procedure?
    In the service, after replacing the tank, they perform the bleeding procedure. I did not, and initially there were errors, but over time, as the air through the injector was removed, all the errors disappeared by themselves. In my opinion, you do not need to do any adaptation, but it is worth removing all the errors that are stored in the ECU. Not every specialist can remove all errors stored in the ECU. I have contact with a specialist who knows it very well, but it's a long way from you. For now, I would not disassemble the tank again, but rather delete the errors properly. I bought a damaged allegro tank which had the electronics board undamaged and I replaced it and it's OK. All electronics, I think is the same in all PSA cars, but I think that you cannot replace the PCB from another car model because I am almost 100% sure that it looks the same physically but it is programmed differently, e.g. tanks have different capacity, etc. and in the software probably there are therefore other values stored.

    Have you tried to delete errors? If so, are everything back to normal, are the AdBlue lights off? Everything should return to normal after deleting it, and if there is still something damaged, the errors return, but only after driving, say, 10 km and not immediately. The AdBlue starts to work as the engine warms up.

    One more important note, do not disconnect the tank without first disconnecting the battery !!! This can generate errors and even cause a lack of communication over CAN !!! To be sure, disconnect the battery, wait a few minutes and reconnect the battery.

    Added after 36 [minutes]:

    romano713 wrote:
    I am also not sure if the battery condition matters, because it is about 60% and it quickly enters the energy saving state.


    Look at this:
    I quote:
    Start by checking the battery condition. I had the same problem. Error P20E8 low pressure in the adblue system. The error was caused by the lack of proper voltage on the pump. The problem was the weak battery. After replacing the battery with a new one, the problem was resolved. I will add that the car fired without any problems only after checking the battery with a meter, it turned out that it is already worn out. My car peugeot 508 gt 2.0 180km 2015

    https://peugeot.auto.com.pl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=283460
  • #13
    085ata13
    Level 2  
    I have such a tank with a pump and electronics
    it's good that I didn't cut him, because it made me curious how everything is solved inside
    I will check and let you know
    another car with the error P20EE 00
    and there are more and more of these cars and with runs of 60k

    Added after 15 [minutes]:

    PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER PEUGEOT BOXER III - Repair of the AdBlue tank PEUGEOT BOXER III, CITROEN JUMPER

    Added after 6 [minutes]:

    Here I have one more such set, but I don't remember what was wrong with him, I just threw it into the garage and there was no time to start it up
    The development topic of the second set is already to be explored
  • #14
    Jean_Phi
    Level 2  
    romano713 wrote:
    I disassembled the tank three times, no leaks were visible, I checked the valve, pump, pipeline patency and the injector. I emptied and filled the tank physically about 10l and the diagbox. I was pounding on Tunapa. Like you, I suggest that the urea controller cannot get along with the car's ECU. In the denox parameters 1: Estimated aging of the heat catalyst -100%. Maybe the ECU is programmed that you need to replace the tank programmatically in the service? Also, I am not sure if the battery condition matters, because it is about 60% and it quickly enters the energy saving state. In my free time, I will take the tank off again and check all parameters with the meter.


    Hello Romano.
    I have a Peugeot 308 T9 1.6 BlueHDI and I have exactly the same problem as you. After 30 seconds, the small contact of the adblue pump opens and I no longer see the temperature on the diagbox. Did you find a solution to this problem?
    Thank you !

    sorry for the quality of the French Polish translation
  • #15
    mako122
    Level 11  
    romano713 wrote:
    I disassembled the tank three times, no leaks were visible, I checked the valve, pump, pipeline patency and the injector. I emptied and filled the tank physically about 10l and the diagbox. I was pounding on Tunapa. Like you, I suggest that the urea controller cannot get along with the car's ECU. In the denox parameters 1: Estimated aging of the heat catalyst -100%. Maybe the ECU is programmed that you need to replace the tank programmatically in the service? I am also not sure if the battery condition matters, because it is about 60% and it quickly enters the energy saving state. In my free time, I will take the tank off again and check all parameters with the meter.


    Estimated aging of the heat catalyst -100%. I'm not that oriented, but this message probably has nothing to do with the AdBlue tank. This message suggests that the catalyst requires regeneration.
    You do not write what errors appear that suggest that the AdBlue tank is damaged? Maybe the tank is good.
    In my opinion, you do not need to replace the tank programmatically because I did not do anything like that for me! I didn't even vent the tank on a program. It was enough to drive a car and the tank deaerated itself, because when the pump works, the urea sucked in displaces the air from the installation and the errors disappear by themselves. As for Tunapa, in my opinion, when someone dismantled the tank and cleaned everything, adding Tunapa does not make sense, it's a pity for the money! Tunap is to prevent urea crystallization, but if everything was turned on and washed, there is no point in adding it. I also tried to repair the tank with Tunap, but it didn't help.
  • #16
    romano713
    Level 2  
    Hello again, unfortunately I haven't solved the problem. Clears errors with a diagbox or ELM as the countdown (activation prohibited) reaches about 300 km. I drove 5,000 km this way. I have disconnected the buzzer, only these messages are annoying. I have properly charged the battery, more than 85% works as before, I deleted the errors properly. There is no change. When I disconnect and turn on the J1 plug, the voltage is still 12V, but after 30 seconds the controller is blocked. I still suspect that the NOX sensor is damaged. I don't give up but I have little time. The Russian forum also has a well-described method of checking parts of this tank one by one, I'm a bit weak in these measurements. I wanted to link to this forum,
    but I can't because I don't have enough points.

    Added after 10 [minutes]:

    Only this error P20E8 pops up low pressure in the adblue system. After the engine has warmed up to about 80 degrees. I have already tried all possibilities with diagbox.
  • #17
    Jean_Phi
    Level 2  
    My car has exactly the same problems as yours.
    When she's cold. the adblue system starts up and then shuts down after 30 seconds. which causes U029D 87 problem (Denox communication lost) and thus low pressure problem.
    on the other hand, when the car is warm, if I switch off the engine and switch off the ignition for more than 30 seconds. after restart everything works. the adblue pump is working properly and all the lights are off.
    My engine ECU is EDC17C60.
    Of course, the problem is a problem with the CAN bus.
    There is a NOX sensor and ADblue on this CAN bus.
    If either of them has a problem (such as water or ice on the PCB), there may be a communication problem.

    I think the adblue board cuts off the mini relay because it did not receive the correct information from the CAN bus in 30 seconds.

    I would like to spend more time on this problem, but at the moment it is too cold for me.
    My next test will be to disconnect the NOX sensor and check if the adblue ECU disconnects .. which would mean that I have a problem with the NOX sensor ECU.
  • #18
    Kfz-Techniker
    Level 1  
    Hello,
    I have a Citroen C 4 Picasso Sapacetourer with a 2.0 HDI 150 FAP (DW10FD) Blue_HDI engine.
    The problem is a returning error code P20E8 (P20E8_00) Urea fluid pressure too low.
    I am looking for a solution to this problem.
    1. ASO I got information here that if there is no pressure in the system, the AdBlue / UREA tank should be replaced.
    2. An independent car repair shop carried out a complete diagnosis. Injector / System tightness / Leaks to the pump module etc.
    The injector is operational during the tests.
    Draining and filling the tank Physical didn't help either.
    Replacing the tank, the ASO procedure also did not help program.
    NOx aftertreatment system fault reset. It didn't help either.
    Replacing the tank with a second used one. It didn't help either.
    Cutting the tank and checking the elements inside it is impossible to identify the damaged element, everything is as new.
    Pump check runs briefly and builds up pressure.
    Probably the problem lies with the software of the Adblue pump module.
    Drilling down on the topic of updating the Adblue pump / tank software, I got information that actions were carried out
    software update at the Dealership for vehicles covered by the warranty and it helped with two types of faults:
    1. Urea fluid pressure too low as well
    2. Urea level too low
    In case of error code P20EE Efficiency of SCR / NOx catalyst below threshold, to be checked / replaced
    1. Adblue injector
    2. NOx probe with module (9821120980)
    3. SCR / NOx catalyst

    The ASO has a separate interface for updating the tank software, which connects directly to the tank, bypassing the engine controller. They have been banned from updating for some time and the feature is blocked.
    Additional information: after replacing the tank with a new one, it is necessary to update the engine controller to the latest available SW / HW version.

    That is why I am looking for a person who will be able to download the software from a brand new tank and upload it to the pump controller used.
    Regards
    Mariusz from Olsztyn
  • #19
    baczynskim6
    Level 2  
    romano713 wrote:
    The Russian forum also has a well-described method of checking parts of this tank one by one, I'm a bit weak in these measurements. I wanted to link to this forum,
    but I can't because I don't have enough points.

    Give me some tips for this Russian forum, what should I google to find them?
  • #20
    romano713
    Level 2  
    To solve the problem, please enter the search engine together
    ADBLUE ????? Niks5388, 11 ???, 2021
    I apologize in advance if it is not allowed to enter other pages.
  • #21
    mako122
    Level 11  
    romano713 wrote:
    To solve the problem, please enter the search engine together
    ADBLUE ????? Niks5388, 11 ???, 2021
    I apologize in advance if it is not allowed to enter other pages.



    https://carmasters.org/topic/45874-adblue/

    Added after 21 [minutes]:

    baczynskim6 wrote:
    romano713 wrote:
    The Russian forum also has a well-described method of checking parts of this tank one by one, I'm a bit weak in these measurements. I wanted to link to this forum,
    but I can't because I don't have enough points.

    Give me some tips for this Russian forum, what should I google to find them?


    https://carmasters.org/topic/45874-adblue/
  • #22
    lukas_sz
    Level 9  
    I am asking the author.

    As holder of a 508 bluehdi .....

    Receives P20E8 error indicating low urea pressure.

    In diagbox tests I have:
    - system efficiency test - injector malfunction,
    injector control test - no defect,
    - nox sensor heating test - no defect,
    - urea tube heating test - heating failure,
    - tank heating test - heating failure - which changed to efficiency because the tank was soaked in demineralized water for several days,
    - nox system relay control test - no defect,
    - pressure build-up control - clutch pedal depressed - [in the machine :) ]

    Another thing that catches my eye is the info in the DENOX 1 card - urea pump indicator module turned off empty - what is it ????

    Once during the system test, an error appeared - Urea pump module malfunction - it disappeared after charging the akku.

    Now the question is whether the still occurring cable heating error in the test can cause the pump to not start, as a result we have a pressure error?
    Are you sure there is a problem with the pump?
    Any tips ??
  • #23
    085ata13
    Level 2  
    Any error of any element in the urea circuit
    It will cause the pump to not start
    Here, the heating of the conductor is clearly defined
  • #24
    mako122
    Level 11  
    085ata13 wrote:
    Any error of any element in the urea circuit
    It will cause the pump to not start
    Here, the heating of the conductor is clearly defined


    You definitely need to check this heating circuit because the electronics are designed in such a way (I described it exactly above) that the controller reads whether the heating circuit is operational and decides whether the pump is to work (there is a current shunt connected to the system to measure the current flowing through the heating element)
    Please check the connection blocks at the tank. Please carefully read the description above, which pins are the power supply for this circuit.

    - tank heating test - heating failure - which has changed to efficiency because of soaking the tank in demineralized water for several days, - please write exactly what is going on, I do not know why soak the tank in demineralized water? The entire tank?




    Added after 1 [minutes]:

    lukas_sz wrote:
    I am asking the author.

    As holder of a 508 bluehdi .....

    Receives P20E8 error indicating low urea pressure.

    In diagbox tests I have:
    - system efficiency test - injector malfunction,
    injector control test - no defect,
    - nox sensor heating test - no defect,
    - urea tube heating test - heating failure,
    - tank heating test - heating failure - which changed to efficiency because the tank was soaked in demineralized water for several days,
    - nox system relay control test - no defect,
    - pressure build-up control - clutch pedal depressed - [in the machine :) ]



    - tank heating test - heating failure - which changed to efficiency because the tank was soaked in demineralized water for several days, - please write exactly what it is about I do not know why soak the tank in demineralized water? The entire tank?
  • #25
    lukas_sz
    Level 9  
    My friend, I am telling you, I bought the car in March ... the tank was replaced in 04.2020 in France.
    After hearing the tongue and suggesting it by a few people - it fell in winter that urea crystallized and they advised to drain and rinse the tank.
    I went on ... I drained the adblue and poured demineralized water to "soak" the filter.

    During the tests, there was an error in heating the tank and heating the cable.
    After soaking, the tank error does not occur - as if it has miraculously fixed.
    The heating of the cable is still signaled.
    In the performance test of the exhaust gas treatment system, it throws an injector error ... I replaced ...

    Tomorrow I will probably be at the workshop that will drop the tank and check.

    Update.

    Tank collapsed - blockage conduit, continuous heating resistance conduit uninterrupted.
    Test fails: pipe heating, tank heating.
    Errors: too low system pressure P20E8 - therefore the pump does not start correctly.
    Electronics not damaged with urea - like new.
    How do you think what to do? buy a new tank, resuscitate electronics, replace electronics?
  • #26
    085ata13
    Level 2  
    It would be good to have something to swap
    I have something there, but the same model
  • #27
    michal1226
    Level 2  
    romano713 wrote:
    Hello, thank you for the information and the work done. I have a similar problem, low urea pressure error (peugeot 508). After briefly disconnecting the connector at the tank for about 30 seconds, you can test (diagbox) urea efficiency - you can hear the pump work about 5.6 bar, control of the injector relay - you can hear a ticking sound. After these 30 seconds, you hear the RL 110 disconnect and the pressure drops to 4 bar, urea temperature to 0 C. This urea control board locks up. I am asking for advice, is it possible to provide a permanent voltage to this relay or how to unlock?
    Regards.


    The above sequence, with the power turned off after 30 seconds, occurs in several people. I have exactly the same. If I turn off the car, right after turning on the ignition there is a pressure reading and an adblue temperature reading. After 30 seconds, the pressure suddenly changes to 4 bar and the urea temperature to 0 degrees. I can run the relay test and see the readings again, but only for 30s.

    This confirms that the relay is working, the pressure and temperature sensor is working, communication is working because diagbox sees the values, but why only for 30 seconds?

    Has anyone managed to fix the problem?
  • #28
    mako122
    Level 11  
    michal1226 wrote:
    romano713 wrote:
    Hello, thank you for the information and the work done. I have a similar problem, low urea pressure error (peugeot 508). After briefly disconnecting the connector at the tank for about 30 seconds, you can test (diagbox) urea efficiency - you can hear the pump work about 5.6 bar, control of the injector relay - you can hear a ticking sound. After these 30 seconds, you hear the RL 110 disconnect and the pressure drops to 4 bar, urea temperature to 0 C. This urea control board locks up. I am asking for advice, is it possible to provide a permanent voltage to this relay or how to unlock?
    Regards.


    The above sequence, with the power turned off after 30 seconds, occurs in several people. I have exactly the same. If I turn off the car, right after turning on the ignition there is a pressure reading and an adblue temperature reading. After 30 seconds, the pressure suddenly changes to 4 bar and the urea temperature to 0 degrees. I can run the relay test and see the readings again, but only for 30s.

    This confirms that the relay is working, the pressure and temperature sensor is working, communication is working because diagbox sees the values, but why only for 30 seconds?

    Has anyone managed to fix the problem?


    Please note the description of electronics and its operation at the beginning of this topic:

    "NOTE IMPORTANT: supplying the tank + 12V connector J1 (6 - red) appears after turning the key and supplies power to the tank. The car's central computer waits for a CAN response from the AdBlue tank. If there is no answer, the car's computer disconnects the + 12V power supply of the tank It may be misread by the car repairman that the cause of the problems is the lack of +12 power supply on the J1 connector. Summing up, if there is no communication between the tank and the car or the tank is disconnected and removed, the voltage will appear at the J1 connectors (+ 12V). just for a few seconds and it disappears. "

    If there is no response after CAN, the computer disconnects the power from the tank and the electronics stops working, please check on the J1 connector on pin 6 (+ 12V) if there is a voltage of 12 V. Probably after 30 seconds the car's computer cuts off this voltage and that is why these symptoms are present.
    After cutting off this voltage, it is as if the tank was gone !!!! The car "does not see it". Each repeated attempt to start the car causes the voltage to appear for 30 seconds and if after CAN the tank does not send information to the car's central computer, the car's computer blocks the power supply to the tank until the next time the car is started. One more note, the pressure of 4 bar means that there is no pressure at all !!!! measurement starts at 4 bar upwards !! if the pump is standing and not generating pressure, the reading is also 4 bar, it means that someone thinks that the pump is working, since the reading is 4 bar and this is not true. My pump motor was damaged by urea, it was rusty and I also had a reading of 4 bar.
  • #29
    michal1226
    Level 2  
    Mako122
    Thank you very much for your answer and for all the information you put in this topic. Good job !!!

    I fully agree with you and it is as you write. The computer drops power from the Adblue module.

    I checked it and confirmed it. I just don't understand:
    If there is a problem with communication via CAN, why the first 30 seconds all information reaches the diagnostic interface via the OBD connector? I don't understand that. I am doing the relay test manually, the power goes also and the pressure and urea temperature values show up correctly. During this time, I can also trigger a performance test and the pump is physically working.
    So it looks that all the elements of the adblue module work properly only from the control side of the car, the power supply is dropped after time.

    I will add that after deleting the errors, the first thing that pops up is the pressure error, but only after the car warms up> 55c.
  • #30
    mako122
    Level 11  
    michal1226 wrote:
    If there is a problem with communication via CAN, why the first 30 seconds all information reaches the diagnostic interface via the OBD connector?


    Maybe there is no problem with communication, only the tank tests itself after starting the car and does not pass the test !! Then it sends a message such as "It does not work properly, e.g. I do not detect the urea heating circuit such and such and please switch me off for safety !!!!! Unfortunately, without knowing the microprocessor software in the tank and its operating logic, it is difficult to say something meaningful. the tank checks its circuits and sends a message to the car's central computer.
    What solution do I see?
    If someone has access to a functional tank, it is worth doing such exclusion tests.
    Unplug all sensor and heaters from the board, etc. Connect the same bare board to the car, but 100% efficient, and see if it drops the voltage after 30 seconds, if so, connect other peripherals and check what causes the voltage drop by deduction. There is a bypass in each urea preheating circuit to inform the tank computer if the circuit is open or shorted. So the tank computer monitors even such things. It knows whether a given circuit is working properly or not. It is enough that one heating circuit consumes too much current or it is open and this may already be the reason that the tank sends a command to the central computer "turn me off" because I have a faulty heater and I cannot continue to work !!!