Bosch Condenser Tumble Dryer: Comparing WTW85460PL Heat Pump Model and Conventional Options

mrice wrote:

Get down to earth, man.

Heater 560 kWh/year, pump 170 kWh/year and with 160 drying cycles (now ~ PLN 400 cheaper per year), and how about someone like me, where laundry is done every day (-PLN 900)? kWh now PLN 1, and what will happen at PLN 2...
Besides, there won't be a topic for a long time because:
a. Nobody wants to sell heaters.
b. Nobody wants to buy heaters.
c. Heaters are not produced and what is left must disappear from warehouses and/or be returned to the manufacturer for disposal if sales are so low.

mrice wrote:

You want to spend PLN 2,000 every 4 years

The cost of comfort, a new piece of furniture, not an old piece of furniture. And who can guarantee that the heating element will not break down after 4 years?

Zdzichu wrote:

After a long analysis and discussion with my wife, we decided that the best choice in terms of comfort would be the 8 series, specifically WTX87K40PL BOSCH.

If you arrive with the purchase document by tomorrow, Bosch will refund PLN 750
https://www.bosch-home.pl/promocje/prasuj-less-likeabosch

Already registered . I'm waiting for the money.

And I will get PLN 750 back per year from my WTG86401PL because I won't have to take it to a service technician.

PS
It is shocking audacity of people who professionally repair dryers to discourage models with a heat pump. Or maybe it's their secret plan that we would elect them as politicians and then they will also propose solutions in which they will not be needed?

marcinpdt wrote:

This is the shocking insolence of people

I'm not a service technician, but I've had two heat pump dryers and they stopped drying after three years, so now I have another radiator one and this one will never let me down.

She doesn't, but the party that sets electricity prices in our socialist system does

Sebastian_M26 wrote:

Heater 560 kWh/year, pump 170 kWh/year with 160 drying cycles (now ~ PLN 400 cheaper per year)

You are talking about dry data from the manufacturer which never corresponds to reality, just like the catalog fuel consumption of cars. :lol:

Sebastian_M26 wrote:

b. Nobody wants to buy heaters.

Hardly anyone, in fact, and that suits me as a service technician, as I have already mentioned, cleaning exchangers is a great job

Sebastian_M26 wrote:

Heaters are no longer produced and what is left must disappear from warehouses

Seriously ? So how do you explain that the Bosch heater model is changing? There was once WTN and WTG, both almost entirely white. Later, WNT disappeared. Currently, there are no WTGs, but there are two WTNs, described as "New" :lol:


@yanes
I would discuss whether it will never fail, but the problem of the exchanger getting clogged or leaking in some devices is certainly eliminated.

mrice wrote:

Seriously ? So how do you explain that the offer is Bosch

Offering and selling are two different things. Here's availability in the 2 largest networks:

I wrote above about the low availability in trade, but that's not necessarily the point.
Similarly to the availability of diesel and large-capacity petrol engines. Someone knows for us what is better for us It may be similar in the case of dryers, but the customer's purchasing decision-making is certainly important.
My point is that if someone buys, for example, an induction hob, they will probably never go back to a gas or ceramic one. And it's similar with a dryer, if you buy one with a heat pump... the first time you remove the dried load and you already know that it was the best decision. Lower electricity consumption and other goodies are just a nice addition.
In this thread a long time ago I expressed my opinions about the senselessness of purchasing a (then still much more expensive) dryer with a heat pump. I just had a regular one and had no idea of the difference in work quality until, of course, I finally bought one.

Borutka wrote:

My point is that if someone buys, for example, an induction hob, they will probably never go back to a gas one

Well, I will be different again, because this will be the first thing I do as soon as I have gas connected.

Borutka wrote:

In this thread a long time ago I expressed my opinions about the senselessness of purchasing a (then still much more expensive) dryer with a heat pump. I just had a regular one and had no idea of the difference in work quality until, of course, I finally bought one.

Ok, what do you mean by difference in work quality?
It so happens that I have several dryers in stock. Two heaters (one with a fault which I cannot solve) and one with a heat pump. Generally, all of them are representatives of modern construction (3-5 years old).
When it comes to the final drying effect - heater vs. pump - I don't see any difference.
In terms of work culture, too, they all run on capacitor-started engines, as does the compressor in the pump.
The only thing I can hear is the compressor running in the pump, but let's just say that I have a sensitive ear and the sound of its operation is not loud or problematic.

mrice wrote:

Ok, what do you mean by difference in work quality?

Maybe I wasn't precise, because I had more in mind the quality of the work results. Although the quality of work itself is, of course, a matter of the production of moisture outside, which is absolutely not the case with a dryer with a pump.
Besides, that's what this topic is all about. My friend probably followed him, so I won't repeat it.

Borutka wrote:

Maybe I wasn't precise, because I had more in mind the quality of the work results.

Ok, but we are comparing different production periods, it will not be reliable.

Borutka wrote:

although the quality of work itself is, of course, a matter of producing moisture outside, which is absolutely not the case with a dryer with a pump.

In fact, the pump generates less moisture and heat released outside.

I know what the topic is about, but I was just curious, strictly, about your opinion.

Can you place the dryer directly on top of the washing machine? Do I need to buy a connector? Both BOSCH devices

Answer this for yourself while the washing machine is spinning.

I`m asking because people install it without a connector and apparently it`s not needed, I`m waiting for the opinion of someone who uses it.

In my family there is LG Bosch equipment from various fairy tales, nothing is happening.

>>15325669
How`s the dryer? Is it still working? :)

I have read dozens of posts about dryers and heat pumps and I have noticed that the heat pump is actually the weakest link.
over 5 years ago I bought a used Bosch for PLN 800 and it worked virtually failure-free all these years - a year ago there were some squeaking noises from the rollers and the panel backlight started to fail, so I bought a new dryer with a heat pump in the WTH85V8SPL store. I bought a new one because a man who sells used ones was shouting PLN 1,500 for a dryer with a heat pump - I came across some promotion and bought a new one with a warranty for PLN 1,850. Yes, I know that I could have bought a regular hair dryer with a heater for that money, but for me it was just a matter of whim.
Moreover, I wanted my wife to be able to wash and dry at the same time on one electrical circuit protected by 16A, and we had to be a bit careful with what we put into the dryer, but now the temperature is slightly lower and we dry everything as quickly as possible.

The dryer with a pump consumes about 40-50% less electricity than the previous one - but the previous one was also heavily clogged with dirt - the exchanger was clean, but the channels at the back were clogged with clots, I cleaned the entire dryer but I didn`t replace any rollers because there was no point. I now have two devices.

The heater pump will use about 40-50% less energy, but it only lasts during drying. It is also twice as long on average.
I currently have Bosch twins, one on the pump and the other on the heater, so I was doing a test.
I dried two towels wrung out of the water in my hands.
The heater coped with them in 2.5 hours, the pump needed 6.5 hours.
During this time, the heater consumed about 5.5 kWh, the pump about 3.3 kWh.

Of course, these drying times are quite extreme, normally spun laundry will be dried in a shorter time.

I'm not convinced by your values, but I don't wring out towels by hand. If my dryer consumed so much electricity, I wouldn't use such devices.

Drying time has nothing to do with anything - I'm talking about real consumption throughout the drying cycle.
The dryer with a heater consumed on average 1.3 kWh in the entire cycle, and the dryer with a heat pump consumed an average of 0.7 kWh. These are approximate values - from my monthly observations, because I do not keep a diary or upload data to Excel, I only see what the meter connected in front of the dryer shows.

Of course, a dryer with a dirty exchanger will consume more energy and time, but I am talking about a dryer with a clean exchanger. When it comes to time, a dryer with a pump dries on average 1.5 ha, and a dryer with a heater took 1 hour - of course, we do not load the clothes full into the washing machine, but we also wash them as we did before. In terms of drying time, I agree and heat pump dryers dry longer, but they do not have 2.5 kW heaters, only a 700W compressor.

PS: If someone is looking for a dryer and wants to be guided by my observations when making a decision, I would like to remind you that this is a whim and an experiment because I am not convinced about the durability of dryers with a heat pump - if someone cares about durability, then only a dryer with a heater and a removable exchanger, which can be easily removed and rinsed.

They don`t have to convince you, but they were made with a measuring device attached.
I didn`t spin the towels because I didn`t have a washing machine at hand at the time.

Either way, a heater dryer consumes on average about 2 kWh per hour, a heat pump about 0.5 kWh

For you, drying time may not matter, but for some it does.

Privately, I have a heater at home and I appreciate that it dries my laundry at the same time as the washing machine, so I can wash three weeks` worth of laundry in one day, taking out the clothes after drying, ready to be folded and put in the closet. Personally, I prefer to pay the few dozen zlotys extra for my electricity bill, but have them dried faster.

Of course, it is a result of tastes and opinions as well as the way of use.

From the service technician`s point of view, pumps are much nicer because they provide more work and income.

I won`t argue either, because I bought the first dryer used and maybe its efficiency was not as good as new - it certainly wasn`t.

Since you are servicing, I would like to ask out of curiosity - what is the failure rate of such devices - I am talking about the compressor-exchanger unit. I`m a bit surprised that the exchanger is made of aluminum and not copper. In case of leakage, can such an aluminum exchanger be soldered somehow? What is the cost of refilling the R290 factor - isn`t this practiced, but the service is limited to cleaning the installation?

In the Bosch / Siemens stable, problems with leakage are very rare.
The biggest problem with this today is in Electrolux, but even there no one is trying to patch it because the manufacturer has not been able to design it.
Then the customer is offered the so-called "Complete heat pump", i.e. a compressor, evaporator, condenser and installation, but then the customer loses money on price.
The average time needed to clean the exchanger is 5-6 years.

Generally, if I find a customer who wants to patch something like this, I disassemble the equipment and take the "bottom" to a friend`s refrigerator, but usually the costs of disassembly and repair with recharging the system discourage many people. Usually, a leak puts a cross over the equipment.

So if I take care of it, this device should last for some time.

It seems to me that vibrations generated during drum movements may be problematic and may cause leaks, but I don't know - the compressor and exchangers are located in the base of the device and probably on some rubber that cushions the operation of the compressor itself.

I don't know if I got it right, but I noticed that there are dust particles appearing on the exchanger - minimal, but sometimes there will probably be more of them - I wonder if instead of cleaning the exchanger with a brush, it would be better to regularly spray the exchanger with distilled water and then the dust will flow into the chamber under the exchanger - I know also that it can get quite messy there and I'm wondering how to prevent it - is it possible to pump out the mess by pouring water under the exchanger from time to time - or is it better to remove the pump and clean it regularly?

I'm a bit of a sucker for taking care of household appliances and I believe that many failures are the fault of the user, not the manufacturer - of course, when I say care, I mean regular activities - in the case of dryers, cleaning the filters after each cycle because it takes 3 minutes, and drying with a dirty filter can extend the cycle by 30 minutes.

drboczek wrote:

So if I take care of it, this device should last for some time.

I think that in the case of Bosch, unless there is some surprise, there is a chance that the device will last 15 years. Of course, in the meantime, you will need to take into account when cleaning the exchanger, probably the belt and maybe the tensioner roller. Other than that, a basically hassle-free brand.

drboczek wrote:

I wonder how to prevent this

Many people have already wondered about this, but from my experience, no matter what you do, you will have no influence on it.
You simply have to accept the fact that the device needs periodic service. Just like in a car, you need to replace the timing belt periodically.

drboczek wrote:

I`m a bit of a sucker for taking care of household appliances

Paradoxically, it is quite important not to overdose on detergents when washing, especially liquid ones. The dryer then extracts incredible amounts of detergent from the clothes and places them in the form of jelly on the base of the exchanger.
In addition, clean the rhizome filter every time it dries, and that`s it. You can`t think of anything else that would make any sense.

Since this is a kind of experiment, I will still try to rinse the space under the exchanger where the jelly collects every month or two - we`ll see if I can cheat fate, especially since removing the water pump is quite simple. Bosch has the "advantage" that it has a sponge filter in front of the exchanger, which, let`s say, saves the situation a bit - although I don`t really believe in it. Moreover, there is a second exchanger at the back that heats the air - I cannot clean this without completely disassembling the device.

Yes, with the lint filter, I know that after each drying - when my wife once tried to prove to me that you don`t have to clean it after each drying - because she saw these housewives` guides on YT where the week`s lint is collected, I lost my mind - I think household appliance manufacturers pay them to show this nonsense.

When it comes to durability, for me 5 years is enough, and if the device lasts longer, it`s even better - like the Bosch washing machine, which we have had for 8 years and works like new. And here`s the dilemma again, because my wife doesn`t use powders, only some capsules, and I think that thanks to this we have a fairly clean interior of the drum, but again it may have a negative impact on the dryer, especially since she often uses shortened programs where rinsing is probably not necessary. so intense.

drboczek wrote:

let`s see if I can cheat fate,

I doubt it, because you won`t be able to reach the entire surface under the exchanger. The last one I made (7 years) looked like this:

drboczek wrote:

And here`s the dilemma again because my wife doesn`t use powders, she only uses capsules and I think that thanks to this we have a fairly clean interior of the drum.

I`m going to upset you here, because capsules are the worst possible crap for washing, leaving a lot of mess behind, but that`s not a discussion for this thread.

mrice wrote:

The last one I made (7 years) looked like this:

|
Let me tell you, it doesn't look bad. I had more muck under the exchanger in the old heater, but I don't want to post a video here. And I need to read more about these capsules because the bottom of the drum is really clean and the heater looks like new. However, I always wonder if I'm wiping my face with the foil from the capsules, and now I'll wonder if the foil ends up at the bottom of the dryer.
Someone brave could do some research on this topic.

drboczek wrote:

Let me tell you, it doesn`t look bad. I had more muck under the exchanger in the old heater, but I don`t want to post a video here.

Maybe throw it in though.

freebsd wrote:

Maybe throw it in though.

All in all, the topic is about dryers, so users have the right to know what comes out of their clothes and why sometimes the equipment needs to be serviced.
But in my case it's probably 3 years old because I remember visiting it once and cleaning it.

drboczek wrote:

All in all, the topic is about dryers, so users have the right to know what comes out of their clothes and why sometimes the equipment needs to be serviced.
But in my case it`s probably been dirty for 3 years because I remember visiting it once and cleaning it.

So, having such good access and cleaning the heat exchanger regularly, how did you get to this situation?