"Sales representatives of one of the companies that represented Energa concealed information about the additional fee from Energi-Obrót's clients. Recipients who signed annexes to their contracts were (and probably still are) surprised by much higher bills."
As you can see, Energa is obliged to offer customers the regular G11 statutory tariff. They must not claim that "now all new customers have to sign a comprehensive contract" because it is clearly not true.
It is known that the comprehensive tariff G11k or G12k gives higher profits to Energa, which is why they offer it to everyone so eagerly.
I heard exactly the same that there is no tariff, e.g. g11, without a trade fee. I wonder if, if I wanted to write from them that there is no such tariff, what they would tell me ....
You should ask in writing and additionally record their statement (with their consent) and at the end inform them that you will write a complaint to the ERO if they do not sign the regular G11 statutory tariff with you. Such unfair practices must be exterminated.
"We feel cheated!". RMF FM reveals the backstage of energy sales Kuba Kaługa Today, April 8 (14:50)
"I had to lie. Cheat. I couldn't tell my clients directly what I was doing and why I was doing it. Nobody would have signed anything with me if I were telling the truth" - says RMF FM, one of the sales representatives who signed on behalf of Energa-Obrót annexes to contracts with customers of the energy concern. RMF FM reveals the backstage of the door2door sales campaign on behalf of Energi-Obrót by one of the companies. reveals the backstage of the door2door sales campaign on behalf of Energi-Obrót by one of the companies. "We feel cheated!". RMF FM reveals the backstage of energy sales Illustrative photo / Darek Delmanowicz / PAP / EPA
Sales representatives of one of the companies that represented Energa concealed information about the additional fee from Energi-Obrót's clients. Recipients who signed annexes to their contracts were (and probably still are) surprised by much higher bills.
The RMF FM journalist reached customers who felt that they had been deceived, as well as sales representatives who proposed signing annexes. In an interview with our reporter, they say that they had to lie to people they visited at home during the pandemic. They talk about remorse and misleading or outright cheating customers. They tell about how they quit their jobs, despite high earnings.
Energa knows the case and is already conducting an internal investigation. He admits that many details require careful study.
Several hundred zlotys more for electricity. Energa Obrót was deceiving customers? KO deputies demand immediate control of the company publication 2021-04-09 18:09 KO deputies: Agnieszka Pomaska and Barbara Nowacka want control of the Energy Regulatory Office and the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection in Energa Obrót. According to media reports, employees of an external company that sold the company's services in the so-called door-to-door channel, they hid information about additional charges from customers.
On Friday, in front of the Energia headquarters in Gdańsk, the members of KO - Agnieszka Pomaska and Barbara Nowacka organized a press conference entitled "A fraud under the banner of a state-owned company". As the parliamentarians explained, it was about the unfair actions of the sales representatives of the company, which on behalf of Energa Obrót signed annexes to contracts with customers of the energy concern, misleading them or not informing them about the details of the contract. As a result, customers paid many times higher electricity bills.
With this "bill several times higher" and bills higher by several hundred zlotys "it is an obvious journalistic exaggeration in order to stimulate the atmosphere, no less stretching on higher fees related to comprehensive contracts is a fact However, I am interested in whether, in connection with this scandal, Energa will change the wording of paragraph 3 of the following regulations: https://www.energa.pl/dam/jcr:30f132b9-f71f-4...Regulamin%20-%20przylaczenie%20do%20sieci.pdf
because it is also obvious forcing customers to sign unfavorable comprehensive contracts
In December I managed to change the G11k to G11 with quite a few adventures. Of course, the complaint later, because apart from the lack of the letter "k" on the bill, nothing has changed. But from what I read it is standard. For several years, no one from Energa called me with a favorable offer. Not only that, when I called to change G11k to G11, it can be done by phone. When you sign a contract, even a word will not write that there is such a thing as G11. Today, a lady from Energa calls me with a proposition of a fixed price. I understand the suggestion was to switch from the G11 to the G11k. A miracle in this direction can be arranged over the phone. It's a pity this company doesn't care about customers. It doesn't have to be, and people will stay with them anyway.
The Personal Data Protection Office (UODO) is considering proceedings regarding the practices we have revealed. It is about the data of Energi-Obrót's clients Kuba Kaługa Today, April 12th (5:05 pm)
The Office for Personal Data Protection will consider conducting an investigation into the practices disclosed by us used by one of Energa-Obrót's business partners. It is about examining the case for possible irregularities in the processing of personal data. Last week we described the backstage of the so-called door2door sale conducted by an external partner, Energi-Obrót. Sales representatives admitted to the RMF FM reporter that they were hiding information about the additional fee from customers.
How was your personal data treated?
A separate topic is how the personal data of people visited in their homes were treated. In the sales group described by us, there was an unusual mechanism for transferring and exchanging personal data: When a given salesman entered a client's apartment, he entered his address in the group in one of the popular communicators. In response, he received a screen (photo) from the computer system, which displayed various personal data of the client: name, surname, PESEL number, address, telephone number, often e-mail address.
These data were available to all, more than 20 members of the sales group, and therefore mostly to people who had nothing to do with the client that was asked for. Every day, the personal data of several hundred customers were published in this way in the group. What's more, employees who finished their work in this sales group still had full access to the history of the conversation, including the personal data transferred in it in the form of screens.
According to our unofficial information, at the end of March - when Energa was already conducting an investigation initiated after information from one of the sales representatives - the head of the discussed group informed employees that this form of data exchange was inconsistent with the company's policy and asked them to remove the group from their phones.
Well, I already have an invoice where it should be just g11, not g11 k and we received this invoice ... commercial space in 2 months. I am waiting for the invoice, where only the g11 itself is there - and I've lived to see it ... The desired g11 is the invoice. My last bill was for 352kw - 326.69 PLN Now, it is true that I have less kw, because 272 kw, and the bill - PLN 224.33.
Well, I already have an invoice where it should be just g11, not g11 k and we received this invoice ... commercial space in 2 months. I am waiting for the invoice, where only the g11 itself is there - and I've lived to see it ... The desired g11 is the invoice. My last bill was for 352kw - 326.69 PLN Now, it is true that I have less kw, because 272 kw, and the bill - PLN 224.33.
At the bottom, I put a description of the April account
Now make a complaint. As you may have noticed, bills differ in the price of energy and the trade fee. They have to give you back money for a previously incorrectly settled invoice. It is several dozen zlotys. A lot, a little, but they cannot be left with it for what they are.
Response from UOKiK: "Referring to your letter of March 30, 2021 regarding the possibility of concluding an agreement with ENERGA - OBRÓT SA with its registered office in Gdańsk through its website, a contract settled according to the electricity tariff ? acting pursuant to Article 100 (3) in conjunction with Article 86 (1)) 4 of the Act of February 16, 2007 on competition and consumer protection (Journal of Laws of 2021, item 275) - we would like to inform you that the reported issue is the subject of an analysis conducted by the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection.
President of the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection on the basis of the above-mentioned of the Act on competition and consumer protection, takes actions in cases where collective consumer interests may be infringed, but does not resolve individual disputes and does not provide legal advice in this regard. He is also not entitled to represent the electricity consumer in the complaint proceedings conducted pursuant to the provisions of the energy law, or in proceedings pending before a common court.
ENERGA - OBRÓT SA, as an electricity seller, by concluding comprehensive agreements or electricity sales agreements with consumers, offers the option of settling accounts for the electricity sold according to the electricity tariff approved by the President of the Energy Regulatory Office, electricity sales price list for consumers or free market price lists.
The findings show that as at the date of this answer, the electricity consumer may, when concluding an online contract with ENERGA - OBRÓT SA, use two paths enabling the selection of electricity billing according to its tariff. It is possible when, by entering the website https://www.energa.pl/dom, he / she will: 1) in the footer of this page of selecting the ENERGA-OBRÓT tariff. It will then be transferred to the subpage https://www.energa.pl/ dom / contract / taryfa.html, on which, using the link Fill out the online form and order our tariff, is redirected to the next subpage https://www.energa.pl/ home / tariff-forms / osd-forms.html. On this subpage, after selecting the variant of concluding a contract that interests him (you buy or get a flat, you have an apartment or a house, you build or finish building a house, you want to return to Energa), the form is transferred to the form Step 1 (Contact details) - Step 2 (Residence address) ) - Step 3 (Contract Details) - Step 4 (Offer Selection). After completing each stage of the form, in Step 4, recipients are presented with options for selecting the offer, including the Company's tariff. In this step, the Your selection field displays information about the selected tariff group and electricity charges for the selected billing option, including the duration of the contract. 2) selecting the link Electricity contract via the Internet and clicking on the Order field will be transferred to the subpage from which - after selecting the contract option that interests you (you buy or get a flat, you have a flat or a house, you build or finish building a house, you want to return to Energi) - is transferred to a subpage where he can fill out an application for concluding a contract. After clicking the link Fill in the application, you will be transferred to the form: Step 1 (Contact details) - Step 2 (Address of residence) - Step 3 (Contract details) - Step 4 (Offer selection). After filling in the information required in the Steps 1-2-3 forms, the recipient is transferred to the Step 4 (Offer selection) form where he selects the tariff group (G11 - 24-hour group, G12 - two-zone group - day and night zones, G12r - two-zone group - zones) peak and off-peak, G12w - two-zone group - day and night zones, the night zone also includes all hours of Saturdays, Sundays and other statutory holidays) of the distribution network operator and the rules for settling electricity payments with its supplier, presented in the link: benefits. In this step, the "Your selection" field displays information on the selected tariff group and electricity charges for the selected Company offer. In Step 4, the recipient, after selecting one of the proposed offers in order to continue the contracting process, is obliged to check the I choose this offer box and I declare that I have read our tariff, which is available at www.energa.pl/dom/umowy/taryfa. In a situation where the recipient - without taking any steps to actually get acquainted with the Company's tariff available on the above-mentioned the website will confirm their completion, a summary of the terms of the contract will be displayed in the Your selection window by providing information on the selected tariff group, tariff name, duration of the contract, zone fee and trade fee.
If the recipient, before submitting a statement that he is familiar with the Company's tariff available at www.energa.pl/dom/umowy/taryfa and confirmation of the offer selection, will enter the above-mentioned the website, in order to actually familiarize with the tariff, will receive information about the tariff of ENERGA-OBRÓT SA for individual tariff groups and the possibility of ordering it online via the presented path: Order our tariff: Fill in the online form and order our tariff - Check. After clicking on the window: Check, the recipient may perform the registration process through the various selection options described in point 1) of this letter and in Step 4, select the Company's offer or its tariff.
Thus, when concluding an online contract with ENERGA-OBRÓT SA, the recipient of electricity has the option to select settlements according to its tariff. This requires him to: - use the access path provided at https://www.energa.pl/dom in the link ENERGA-OBRÓT Tariff or - if you choose the access path provided for at https://www.energa.pl/dom via the link Electricity contract via the Internet - take steps to actually read the information about the Company's tariff on the above-mentioned side before submitting a declaration in the process of concluding the contract that I choose this offer and I declare that I have read our tariff, which is available at www.energa.pl/dom/umowy/taryfa. The President of UOKiK does not inform entities referring letters to the Office about the proceedings initiated on their basis and actions taken, or about their course and results. This is due to the fact that the entity reporting the occurrence of a possible practice is not the initiator or party to the proceedings conducted by the President of UOKiK, and his letter is only informative, signaling a potential problem on the market. Pursuant to the Act on competition and consumer protection, the President of the Office is entitled to initiate the above-mentioned proceedings only ex officio. "
My comment: UOKiK proves that through their website, ENERGA-OBRÓT enables tariff selection, which was known to us from the very beginning. The problem is that ENERGA-OBRÓT has skillfully concealed the possibility of concluding the G11 tariff in favor of concluding G11k offers. All with white gloves, because it is actually possible.
Only finding (method 1 of the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection) the link "Energa-Obrót Tariff" at the very bottom of the page in the "Service" column will lead to the https://www.energa.pl/dom/formularze-taryfowe/formularze-osd.html page enabling the conclusion of the G11 (by the way, compare this page to the default one - https://www.energa.pl/dom/formularze/formularze-osd.html - as it is all thought out, the words "offer" were replaced with "variant" and "offer" with " tariff group "). It's like if you wanted to buy regular bread in a store (without self-service) you would have to find a suitable, hidden second door to the store, because the first one will get you a bread with additives (and more expensive).
To get to the regular G11 (UOKiK method 2) you have to go to the very end of the form, in which it turns out that you have to select G11k to proceed. The certificate-pick for ENERGA-OBRÓT is enough for them to prove that you knew about the possibility of G11. However, in order to even get to this possibility, it is necessary to fill in the form again. The question is, how many people are aware of this? This time the comparison is such that if you want to buy ordinary bread in the store (without self-service), only at the end of the queue you receive information that there is only more expensive bread with additives, and for regular bread you have to leave the store and enter through the second, hidden door stand in line at the checkout again.
The typical bureaucratic wagging and turning the cat's tail!
The problem is that you order the G11 tariff and you get G11k and the Energi consultant proves that you got what you ordered, although you ordered something else.
Should you simply not use the comprehensive contract within three months, pay this contractual penalty PLN 140 and instead, immediately, through the complicated procedure described by you, conclude a contract for the standard G11 tariff?
It's a pity for the PLN 140, but it's still more profitable to pay them this one-time penalty and then be in the cheaper G11 tariff. Another matter is whether Energa imposes this penalty in accordance with the law in a situation where the comprehensive agreement is not signed. This should be dealt with by UOKiK.
If I understand correctly, then after completing the connection, you conclude a comprehensive agreement with ENERGA-OBRÓT. "The detailed terms of the comprehensive agreement will be agreed by the parties before its conclusion.", That is, when concluding the agreement, you do not allow G11k to be manipulated and you sign G11 (or another tariff). This way, you have a G11 and you don't have to pay PLN 140.00 for servicing the connection process.
The comprehensive agreement includes the service of distribution and sale of electricity - hence its name. It doesn't mean that you have to choose G11k (by default they will probably offer you as well as me before I was "enlightened" thanks to the thread on this forum).
And I assumed all the time that G11k is a comprehensive agreement and this "k" w indicates it.
So in your opinion, there may be a comprehensive agreement with the G11 tariff and no trade fee?
In my opinion, a comprehensive contract is one that includes additional "services" such as a guarantee of price stability for a certain period, service of the electrical installation for a telephone and other such things. Then the contract is timely and there is also a commercial fee.
And I assumed all the time that G11k is a comprehensive agreement and this "k" w indicates it.
So in your opinion, there may be a comprehensive agreement with the G11 tariff and no trade fee?
In my opinion, a comprehensive contract is one that includes additional "services" such as a guarantee of price stability for a certain period, service of the electrical installation for a telephone and other such things. Then the contract is timely and there is also a commercial fee.
No no.
We pressed G11k and in December we switched to G11 and all the time there was G11k on the bills, now the first bill came, everything is counted in G11 and there is no letter "k" on the invoice .... However, on Energa 24 we have a contract - comprehensive (I attach a photo) We have the same on a different meter where the tariff is g12 and there also in the type of comprehensive contract (and the contract is 20 years old - nothing has been changed) There has never been a commercial fee in this G12. We don't have the G11 anymore.
In my opinion, a comprehensive contract is one that includes additional "services" such as a guarantee of price stability for a certain period, service of the electrical installation for a telephone and other such things. Then the contract is timely and there is also a commercial fee.
Well written above - this is the coincidence of the letter "k" in the symbol of the tariff and the word "comprehensive" and has nothing else in common. Comprehensive agreements appeared much earlier than the G11k, and precisely when the sale of energy from the distribution service was legally separated. The recipient could change the seller and then he had two contracts - one with the seller and one with the supplier. If he intended to buy energy from a seller from the same capital group as the supplier, then he concluded one contract, which is called a comprehensive one. On the other hand, "k" in the tariff means "Standard price list for k onsumerów "with its fountains. Interestingly, you can even have a G11k tariff without a comprehensive agreement - if the supplier is another DSO, and the recipient has only a sales contract with the trading company.
Thank you for the clarification then. So the comprehensive contract itself is not "dangerous", and can even be beneficial for the customer (because he receives one invoice for the sales and distribution service), the most important thing is that it is based on the G11 statutory tariffs and not G11k and its derivatives.
In this context, I am not surprised that Energa claims that it only concludes comprehensive contracts with new customers because they care about selling electricity, not only distribution itself. Only that they would stop proposing G11k by default and cleverly hide G11 in the maze of links to subsequent subpages and variants
zbich70 wrote:
Interestingly, you can even have a G11k tariff without a comprehensive agreement - if the supplier is another DSO, and the recipient has only a sales contract with the trading company.
And is it actually possible? After all, electricity distribution in a certain area of Poland is dealt with only by Energa, and the G11k tariff seems to be their invented, "proprietary" electricity sales tariff. Another seller probably does not use the name "G11k" although I can be wrong because I do not use other sellers. Well, unless the G11k also includes the rates for the distribution itself.
Yes, but this applies to customers living in areas where energy is supplied by other operators, but for some reason they want to change the supplier to Energa-Obrót. They have the right to do so and can even take advantage of the G11k "promotion".
OK I understand. So the distributors are, for example, Tauron or PGE, and the electricity seller is Energa. I did not think that the biggest players in the energy market parade each other in this way. Well, but in this arrangement there is probably a trade fee?
Pages 14-17 list the letters / notices that were used to issue the decision. This illustrates the enormity of the problem. Report everything to UOKiK and URE.
Today, I also submitted an application for a tariff change via livechat, although from g12k to g12w, but the number from Energa's side is the same. I concluded the contract in their showroom on Kartuska Street: I was informed that it was necessary and they did not shorten any other than comprehensive ones.
Well, I already have an invoice where it should be just g11, not g11 k and we received this invoice ... commercial space in 2 months. I am waiting for the invoice, where only the g11 itself is there - and I've lived to see it ... The desired g11 is the invoice. My last bill was for 352kw - 326.69 PLN Now, it is true that I have less kw, because 272 kw, and the bill - PLN 224.33.
According to calculations, it does not come out the same amount of money per kw It is known that there is a smaller bill if it is 80 kw less than before.
If he intended to buy energy from a seller from the same capital group as the supplier, then he concluded one contract, which is called a comprehensive one.
It is in this arrangement, when we have a comprehensive agreement, but in the G11 tariff it is also a trade fee or is it not? Because I got a little lost. Conflicting information is circulating on the web about this. In the context of the Energa group, of course. Because on the one hand, the trade fee is supposed to be only when there is a fixed-term contract with a guarantee of price stability, but on the other hand, I also found information that the trade fee is added for the very fact of processing and issuing invoices by Energa. Which is probably not entirely true, because Energa also issues paper invoices with the G11 tariff, where there is no commercial fee. So when are they entitled to charge a trading fee?
Can anyone confirm that it has now comprehensive agreement with Energa but v G11 tariff and it is clearly written somewhere that it is a comprehensive agreement, and yet there is no commercial fee?
My point is how to effectively avoid a commercial fee in a situation, for example, when I am a new customer, not yet connected to the Energa grid and I intend to connect to their grid and use their electricity distribution and sale services.
Is every contract for the distribution and sale of electricity signed with Energa actually a comprehensive one by default? Are the old contracts, for example signed 20 years ago with Energa, never changed in the meantime (there were no annexes or anything like that), now automatically comprehensive contracts?
Can anyone confirm that he currently has a comprehensive contract with Energa, but in the G11 tariff it is clearly written somewhere that it is a comprehensive contract, and yet there is no commercial fee?
I can confirm and confirm - I have a comprehensive contract with Energa i I have no trade fee .
The G11 was successful with no additional offers ... ,, Only finding (method 1 of the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection) the link "Energa-Obrót Tariff" at the very bottom of the page in the "Service" column will lead to the https://www.energa.pl/dom/formularze-taryfowe/formularze-osd.html page enabling the conclusion of the G11 (by the way, compare this page to the default one - https://www.energa.pl/dom/formularze/formularze-osd.html - as it is all thought out, the words "offer" were replaced with "variant" and "offer" with " tariff group "). It's like if you wanted to buy regular bread in a store (without self-service) you would have to find a suitable, hidden second door to the store, because for the first you will get bread with additives (and more expensive). ,, It worked ))
The discussion revolves around a user's experience with changing their electricity tariff from G12k to G11 with Energa. The user faced challenges in the process, including receiving incorrect offers (G12k instead of G11) and confusion regarding the differences between G11 and G11k tariffs. Participants shared insights on the nature of these tariffs, with G11 being a standard billing option and G11k including additional services and fees. Many users reported difficulties in accessing the G11 tariff, often being pushed towards G11k, which includes a commercial fee. Solutions discussed included submitting formal requests for tariff changes, contacting customer service, and filing complaints with consumer protection agencies. The conversation highlighted the importance of understanding contract terms and the potential penalties for breaking contracts. Summary generated by the language model.
))
