logo elektroda
logo elektroda
X
logo elektroda

Amplifier plus DAB+ filter without compromise

max-bit 5310 50
ADVERTISEMENT
Treść została przetłumaczona polish » english Zobacz oryginalną wersję tematu
  • As I have been receiving DAB+ Digital Radio for a long time, I am also struggling with reception efficiency, even though the assumptions of the DAB radio specification (DAB+) were to ensure not only digital quality, but also ensure effective reception even in difficult conditions.
    Unfortunately, the assumptions were "slightly" different from reality, as I often travel by car and I have a DAB+ receiver in the car, which means that I know "how it is".
    And while the reception of regular VHF radio is not difficult even in mountainous or foothill areas (around Krakow), unfortunately for the reception of DAB+ radio, the first large hill that covers the transmitter quickly causes the signal to disappear. Unfortunately, the operating frequency range (174-230 MHz) means that the range is basically optical and while close (~ 20 km from the transmitter) in built-up areas is rather (but not always) problem-free, the further away the worse.
    Another issue is the weak input circuits of DAB receivers, they are as simplified as possible, and the receivers are most often single-chip with zero input filters, which also limits the receiving capacity of the receivers.
    So I assumed the construction of an amplifier for a DAB receiver with an input filter system, the minimum gain of such a system in the entire band is ~20 dB with filtering outside the min. 30 dB.
    I didn`t make any compromises here - the elements I used were Mini-Circuits circuits and filters.
    The system used is CMA-5043, and the filter is RBP-204, the system is powered from the output and can be supplied from 5 V to 12 V, and the LP2985 4 V stabilizer system is used, additionally two blocks are used Bias Tee - TCBT-2R5G elements for receiving DC voltage and then applying a stable voltage to the amplifier system.
    The system can be directly powered from the antenna output (voltage range 4-5 V) (OPTION 1),
    OPTION 2 is an additional capacitor that reduces the self-noise of the LP2985 stabilizer, OPTION 3 is an additional Zener diode that can be used to protect against too high voltage (when using another stabilizer).
    The board was designed as 4-layer (wave impedance).

    Diagram:

    Schematic of a low noise amplifier with a filter for DAB+ radio.

    Printed circuit board in 2 views:

    View of the designed DAB+ amplifier on a PCB in schematic form.
    View of the printed circuit board of a DAB receiver amplifier with Mini-Circuits components.

    Render view:

    PCB of DAB amplifier with mounted components in a sealed enclosure.
    DAB+ amplifier circuit with components mounted on a printed circuit board.

    Views of the completed board with installed elements:

    Printed circuit board of a DAB amplifier with mounted components.
    Green PCB of a DAB+ amplifier with mounted components and connectors.
    DAB receiver amplifier PCB with mounted components.
    DAB+ amplifier mounted on a green circuit board in a metal case.
    DAB+ amplifier with filter in a housing labeled with input and output signs.

    Measurement results of the completed system:

    In the range up to 1 GHz:
    DAB amplifier frequency response graph.

    In the range up to 500 MHz:
    Graph showing the characteristic of an amplifier for DAB+ radio reception.

    Finally, the amplifier looks like this (the housing was encapsulated by protecting it with varnish):

    DAB+ amplifier with 170-240 MHz filter in casing.

    Cool? Ranking DIY
    About Author
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    Offline 
    max-bit wrote 4145 posts with rating 708, helped 103 times. Live in city Kraków. Been with us since 2007 year.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #2 20980375
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    You don`t write anything about the antenna - maybe there is a fault in the antenna installation? The amplifier looks interesting, but the antenna is always the main topic to solve, the amplifier comes next.
  • #3 20980449
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    Well, I don`t write anything about the antenna because the antenna has nothing to do with it. The antenna installations are different in the car - this is the original, in the other locations these are the most correct antennas.
  • #4 20980483
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    Just because it`s original doesn`t mean it`s ok.
    Often it is an antenna that is not fully matched (some quarter, too short for FM and too long for DAB), and an amplifier is used.
    I know that you can also receive on the fork, but an antenna is an antenna - I invite you to try it out, it`s worth seeing what the benefits of using a decent antenna are. Even an FM tuner with an internal antenna other than a wire can work well.

    Here you have a nice 6dBd gain antenna for DAB - in German, but YT will translate into Polish.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #5 20980501
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    The amplifier is not intended for a car radio, so I mainly use sulfur in the radio :)
    This is for stationary/field reception testing.

    FM is surprisingly able to receive on a piece of wire even in "difficult" conditions, with DAB there is no valley and that`s it.
    I`m afraid there are several problems:
    1. Frequency
    2. Powers including radiated powers (so far DAB is treated as it is because it exists)
    3. Specificity of emission (spread spectrum) power "density" of individual channels (I suggest you read the emission specification).

    Of course, a good antenna is essential, but no one will use a directional antenna for this band (or any other)

    PS the link didn`t post.

    PS 2 I think that DAB will eventually die out, today it is broadcast mainly by PR and a few private stations.
    Maybe if the spread and therefore "contribution" to DAB broadcasting were greater, maybe.
    For example, the emission POWER of the entire MUX from Chorągwica in Krakow is 10 kW (ERP) for one FM channel is 60 kW
    Is it any wonder that FM plays in the valleys near Krakow and I can forget about DAB?
  • #6 20980721
    slaw0
    Level 15  
    max-bit wrote:


    PS 2 I think that DAB will eventually die out, today it is broadcast mainly by PR and a few private stations.

    And I guess it`s better. Someone will still think about giving up the analogue.
  • #7 20980738
    rosomak19
    Level 23  
    max-bit wrote:
    PS 2 I think that DAB will eventually die,

    With the stations that are placed on the multiplex (at least in my case), it will certainly die. There`s nothing to listen to there.
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #8 20981703
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    There were ideas to turn off FM, as far as I remember, it was turned off in Norway

    Link 1

    Link 2
  • ADVERTISEMENT
  • #9 20981780
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • #10 20981932
    BANANvanDYK
    Level 42  
    If it`s supposed to be an amplifier with a filter for RTL-SDR, I`m not surprised.
    As for DAB+ reception in the field, it`s unfortunately a lottery.
    For example, in Chełmno I can currently receive two multiplexes on a regular antenna: Solec Kujawski (approx. 37 km), Iława/Kisielice (approx. 60 km). Interestingly, the signal from Iława copes quite well with hills and valleys, while the signal from Solec Kujawski has a bigger problem with it. As SP2ROB checked a year or two ago, the signal in Bydgoszcz from Solec Kujawski (12 km) was practically non-existent, but checking on the road it turned out that it was stable further away and had a range of 100-120 km.
    At home, using an external antenna, there was no problem receiving the signal from the Konin/Żółzaniec transmitter (approx. 100 km), but after turning on the transmitter in Iława in the same frequency block but with a different polarization, Iława comes in after moving the antenna in a different direction. I probably won`t catch Koszalin again in tropo that works in the same frequency block.
    The second thing is that a DAB+ receiver is not equal to a DAB+ receiver. Because, for example, on my home tuner I can receive Solec Kujawski on a 1 cm piece of wire, but the portable receiver I bought has problems. Strangely enough, in my house this deaf receiver receives Iława better than Solec. I once caught Gdańsk and Olsztyn on it, but it must have been a huge trope for him.
  • #11 20982899
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    And why should I do something when something is ready?
    I used it (this filter is both easy and not easy to make)

    The airwaves are full of sources of interference. Using traps for a given frequency makes no sense; the solution is to be universal and not for a given case (QRM sources may change).

    So this filter was used and not another one, and as you can see, the parameters are quite good, there are better ones, but their costs are significant, but you can`t exaggerate.
  • #12 20984006
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    I found a table which shows that the signal level for the subscriber sockets (it can be assumed that the signal levels from the receiver`s antenna) for DAB is at least 28µV, and for FM stereo it is at least 50µV.
    The difference is almost twice as high - that`s why I think you must have interference if FM works, or the receiver has very low sensitivity to DAB+.

    I do not deny the amplifier - my observations also show that for DAB+ the signals are sufficient for reception.
  • #13 20984040
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    Sorry, what are you writing about?
    What subscriber sockets?
    Moreover, I would like to know what the 28 uV level means in the DAB signal? (I suggest you familiarize yourself with the structure of the DAB signal).
    Secondly, while FM receivers could operate with sensitivity (for FM Stereo and Mono), in the case of a DAB signal from a bida, we could rely on the density of the power level (combining) in the channel, i.e. the spectrum. But this is also a theory because all it takes is for a few sub channels to not reach us and the competition is over.

    And how do you know that it is enough?
    So I quickly picked up a spec tuner
    Denon DN-300
    And what do we see here?

    DAB/DAB+ Section
    Frequency Range:
    174.928 - 239.200 MHz (Band III)
    Sensitivity:
    100 dBm

    Signal to Noise Ratio:
    >70 dB
    Frequency Response:
    20 - 20 kHz (±3 dB)
    Stereo Separation:
    @ 1 kHz > 60 dB
    Antenna Input Impedance:
    75

    What is 100 dBm sensitivity? Well, if anything, -100 dBm is about 2.2 uV, but as I said, you should use the power density in the channel because there is no physical "1" channel, but a little bit more.
  • #14 20984066
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    This is the signal level for the subscriber socket - it is something you have in the wall and you connect a tuner to it (in short).
    This is the minimum signal level required by the DAB+ standard - meters also measure it, because few errors but a weak signal also do not guarantee reception.

    100 dBm - this is the receiver sensitivity for DAB, you must ensure the appropriate signal level fed to the socket.
    I don`t know about DAB, but in FM too low a level means a lot of noise and no stereo.
    It probably loses quality here too.

    The signal levels given in dBuV are the level given by the sender in a given geographical location outside the body.
    The antenna gain increases it and the cable losses reduce it - then the result reaches the tuner`s antenna socket (DAB+/DVB-T2/FM - you choose what you prefer). A signal is a signal without getting into its content.

    There are FM-DX and DAB-DX websites on the Internet - read how people fight for a few µV of signal. An amplifier like yours (actually probably not, because you use a ready-made one) is probably a good addition, but the basis is the antenna - unfortunately there are compromises in the car, but at home you can try something good.
  • #15 20984079
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    By the way, what does an FM/DAB tuner look like today?
    Well, let`s take a look at the tuner for about PLN 2,000

    Interior of a Rotel FM/DAB tuner showing electronics and specified technical parameters.

    we also have a specific DAB sensitivity - 80 dBm (which seems closer to the truth)
    But what is this structure? The entire FM and DAB TUNER is this small box with probably 2 ICs in it that do everything.

    And, for example, Sony ST-S770 from the best years

    Interior of a Sony ST-S770 tuner with visible electronic components.
    Well, I guess no comment.

    Added after 2 [minutes]:

    What do you think? Record 100dBm too correct
    I suggest you first read what these letters mean (and whether the "-" sign is important here or not)
  • #16 20984123
    rosomak19
    Level 23  
    DAB, like DVB-T2, has no intermediate states, as in the analog signal - it receives, but there is a bit of noise, or there is no stereo. Here it either receives and decodes, or there is nothing.
  • #17 20984126
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    And that`s a bit of a problem. Even though there was some noise in FM, it just dies here, which is irritating.
  • #18 20984243
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    max-bit wrote:
    And that`s a bit of a problem. Even though there is some noise in FM, it just dies here, which is irritating.

    This is the specificity of the digital signal.
    This is the direction the world is heading.
  • #19 20984876
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    First tests
    Kraków QTH: KO00AC02
    Reception was trouble-free (other weaker stations) - I omitted local or very strong stations.
    MUX Świety Krzyż 215.072 MHz (ERP 10 kW) - Emitel
    MUX Prehyba - Szczawnica 211.648 (ERP 1 kW) - DABCOM
    MUX Tarnów Góra Sw Marcina 206.352 (ERP 0.3 kW) - DABCOM
    I presented more difficult "receptions"
  • #20 20985139
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    And what signal levels? What antenna? In the car?
  • #21 20985163
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    First tests
    Kraków QTH: KO00AC02
    Reception without problems (other weaker stations) - I missed local or very strong stations.
    MUX Świety Krzyż 215.072 MHz (ERP 10 kW) - Emitel
    MUX Prehyba - Szczawnica 211.648 (ERP 1 kW) - DABCOM
    MUX Tarnów Góra Sw Marcina 206.352 (ERP 0.3 kW) - DABCOM
    I presented more difficult "receptions"

    Added after 2 [minutes]:

    Here is the approximate range:

    Map showing the reception range of a signal around Krakow, marked with a red line.

    The antenna is X-300 (yes VHF), it is what it is, the feeder is about 35m half-inch :)

    This morning I caught Łódź, but on the border
  • #22 20985186
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    These are very good results in my opinion :)

    X-300 seems to be a 2m/70 cm antenna - maybe it would be worth building something for the DAB range?
  • #23 20985198
    BANANvanDYK
    Level 42  
    Today, a tropo is passing over this part of Poland, I don`t see anything strange in the reception of these stations.
  • #24 20985263
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    There will be ducts :)
  • #25 20985268
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    max-bit wrote:
    There will be ducts :)


    Yes, you can hear a lot, but what`s the harm in installing a decent DAB+ antenna? :)
  • #26 20985310
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    The antenna is one, the location is the second, the options are the third
    1. I will not run the second half-inch cable
    2. A good DAB antenna, hmmm, it`s a relative thing (I don`t know, it would have to be done) and actually I`m not talking about DX at all.
    3. Using the current installation, you would have to use ... oops (it would probably be easier to lay this cable ..)
    4. A good DAB antenna in a car is a fiction, after all, the car itself is a poor reception point, and I haven`t seen a car with a mast yet

    Added after 32 [seconds]:

    5. Dukty is Dukty
  • #27 20985362
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    max-bit wrote:

    4. A good DAB antenna in a car is a fiction, after all, the car itself is a poor reception point, and I haven`t seen a car with a mast yet


    There are many photos on the Internet :)
    In general, a fitted antenna improves reception - for many years I used an FM antenna with a quarter-wave frame (so-called "FM frame antenna") and as a result I had very good results, better than those from Azart (9 floors from the roof and so much 75Ω cable, antenna in the window about 3 m of 75Ω cable to the tuner).

    Something like this:
    http://skegnessdx.blogspot.com/2014/12/the-infamous-faulkner-fm-loop-antenna.html
    or this:
    https://mikestechblog.com/build-an-indoor-fm-antenna-with-these-plans/

    For DAB, the dimensions need to be reduced by approximately half.
  • #28 20987518
    Anonymous
    Level 1  
  • #29 20988426
    max-bit
    Level 33  
    A tunable filter would be too "coarse", of course it would be gratuitous, but it would be an excess of form over substance.
    Unless someone wants to do DX on DAB+, in which case a general amplifier filter is made first, then a narrow-band tunable filter and once again amp, then we have approximately +40 dB of gain with narrow-band filtering.
    If we combined it with a directional DAB antenna, things would get bigger.
    Then all that remains is to set up a DAB DX club

    Added after 2 [minutes]:

    Although there is a small problem how to synchronize it with the receiver... (scan function).
  • #30 20989484
    sq3evp
    Level 37  
    max-bit wrote:

    Then all that remains is to set up a DAB DX club

    Added after 2 [minutes]:

    Although there is a small problem how to synchronize it with the receiver... (scan function).


    DX DAB clubs already exist in the world - I recommend using directional antennas and rotating masts.
    Expensive, but probably worth it if someone has time for DX.

Topic summary

The discussion revolves around the challenges of receiving DAB+ Digital Radio, particularly in areas with difficult terrain, such as mountainous regions. Users express frustration with the reception quality, noting that while FM radio performs adequately, DAB+ signals often drop out behind hills. The conversation highlights the importance of antenna quality and installation, with suggestions to use better antennas for improved reception. Various technical aspects are discussed, including the sensitivity of DAB receivers, the need for amplifiers, and the potential for interference from other electronic devices. Users also explore the feasibility of building custom filters and amplifiers to enhance DAB+ reception, while some express skepticism about the future of DAB broadcasting. The conversation concludes with technical insights into the components and costs associated with building a DAB+ reception system.
Summary generated by the language model.
ADVERTISEMENT