Why doesn't the US use 230V the way (almost) everyone does?

TechEkspert wrote:

Here are recordings of real situations:

In the first film, a pole is burning and onlookers are standing centrally under the power line.
Life is not nice for them, or they are people of great faith :)

bernanio wrote:

in Poland it is much safer, because each current leakage through the ground from the MV or HV line is treated as an earth fault and the line is switched off

Will the protection of the 15kV line work when it falls to the ground?
From what I've heard, there is a problem with that.

rafbid wrote:

janusz2k wrote:

3-phase voltage is also available in the US

With what tension?

3x 460VAC as well as 3 x 220VAC are available.

Except that 3x460VAC is provided by the energy supplier (or the owner of the building), and 3 x 220VAC, the company that needs the same voltage must take care of the proper installation.

I would like to add that the voltage of 227VAC is also used in industrial lighting :)

And personally, I am more irritated by the multitude of plugs / sockets used in the USA than the voltages themselves

bernanio wrote:

in Poland it is much safer, because each current leakage through the ground from the MV or HV line is treated as an earth fault and the line is switched off

Will the protection of the 15kV line work when it falls to the ground?
From what I've heard, there is a problem with that. [/ Quote]

If the conditions for the protection operation are met, then yes.
If the wire falls to the ground or, for example, rests against a tree or branch, the insulator breaks and a current leakage appears (too small for the protection to work), which will reduce the potential of a given phase in relation to the ground, which in turn will result in the appearance of voltage in the open triangle circuit at the station and the activation of AWSC (Automatic Active Component Forcing), which in turn will cause the flow of greater current and capture its leakage in a given outgoing field. It happens that the protection will not work because the conditions are not met, e.g. in a sandy area. On the other hand, too high sensitivity will cause the line to switch off when the insulator becomes dirty with "dust"

Maybe the networks in the US are backward, but there will be some snowfall in our country, the lines fly like matches.
In addition, from what they write in business forums, Polish energy networks are so backward that it takes billions to modernize them. So I don't know what to praise here.

kult5 wrote:

In the first film, a pole is burning and onlookers are standing centrally under the power line.
Life is not nice for them, or they are people of great faith

I am more wondering why firefighters are pouring under voltage after a hit ...

amator2000 wrote:

(...) Polish power grids are so backward that billions are needed to modernize them.

In the USA, backwardness, in our country, backwardness, but in the land of the blind, the one-eyed one is king

a_noob wrote:

I am more wondering why firefighters are pouring under voltage after a hit ...

Rather, it will not be water, it would be their last action :)

Polon_us wrote:

And personally, I am more irritated by the multitude of plugs / sockets used in the USA than the voltages themselves

So there are more plug standards in the US?

Frog_Qmak wrote:

So there are more plug standards in the US?

a few of them actually have
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets#North_American_and_IEC_60906-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector

Frog_Qmak wrote:

Rather, it will not be water, it would be their last action

Is it water or not is one thing, after disconnecting the mains it would be easier for them to turn off

Look far for differences in the capital of the European Union Brussels I have encountered such tensions once and they are still available. The voltage in the 230 V socket but there are two phases and we have 130V in relation to the ground. I measure and there, between the phases, 230 V or 220 V I do not remember anymore.

What is so surprising about Belgium it is. You can connect the engine and generator in a delta or star connection. With us, it is only connected on the engines.

When I was young I was surprised now I will not give up The air conditioning only had a 400 volt compressor and it was impossible to switch it.

Frog_Qmak wrote:

So there are more plug standards in the US?

Below is just a part of what is available in the USA in industrial installations.
The following (i.e. the table) are the so-called "straight blade" or straight plugs (pins?).
Exactly the same values, ie voltages and currents, are also available in the "twist lock" sockets / plugs (photo below), ie a plug with a light twist lock. I don't know how to better explain it.

And I would like to add that the following does not include plugs for 460 / 480V installations.
But I didn't want to bore my colleagues with details.

a_noob wrote:

...
I am more wondering why firefighters are pouring under voltage after a hit ...

Maybe this is deionized water? This is what is used as a dielectric liquid in wire EDM machines.

Well, with this water poured on electricity, there are 2 possibilities:

1 Demineralized or
2 Lucky fools

I have already written elsewhere on this forum about extinguishing live electrical installations with water. This is the normal recommended procedure in the Nordic countries. An ordinary tap is so clean there that it does not short-circuit and does not electrocute. Even so, I would not dare to step into a bathtub with water and a hair dryer plugged into the socket.

However, I definitely prefer our standards, I am only wondering if the 3-pin socket is compatible with the 2-pin plug. Because it's a bit easier.

jaszczur1111 wrote:

I have already written elsewhere on this forum about extinguishing live electrical installations with water. This is the normal recommended procedure in the Nordic countries. An ordinary tap is so clean there that it does not short-circuit and does not electrocute.

provide a link or phone number to the appropriate embassy, because I do not believe it and I have to verify it

TechEkspert wrote:

Thus, the circuit between the primary winding of the distribution transformer on the pole and the secondary winding of the isolation transformer is closed through the ground.

So that the transformer does not provide galvanic isolation? In the sense that the phase return is on the housing? Either I don't understand something or something is wrong. I'm sorry if it's the former.

So how do devices shield? :D

Why do they take place in a 3-pin socket if the PE and phase return are the same wire (through the ground)?

Perhaps they have earth of earth, and earth is not equal to earth, earth is not equal to earth

[quote] provide a link or phone number to the appropriate embassy, because I don't believe it and I have to verify it [quote]

I repeat the opinion of the man who was there about 20 years ago. Here I must honestly admit that I have not found such materials yet, which strongly undermines the honesty of my statement. (Maybe not honesty, but matter-of-factness.) I can not.

misiekagh wrote:

Why do they take place in a 3-pin socket if the PE and phase return are the same wire (through the ground)?

After all, with us, PE and N are also grounded together when hit and we have 3 pins, what is incomprehensible here?

I think a separate zero and ground is useful though. Zeroing is sometimes performed in ungrounded installations, but this is not ideal. There is a risk that the neutral wire will break and a phase will appear on the device housing. In addition, without a separate grounding, it would not be possible to detect, for example, a phase short circuit with the housing, and in that case the RCD would not trip.

[quote = "jaszczur1111"] [quote] provide some link or phone number to the appropriate embassy, because I don't believe it and I have to verify it

Quote:

I repeat the opinion of the man who was there about 20 years ago. Here I must honestly admit that I have not found such materials yet, which strongly undermines the honesty of my statement. (Maybe not honesty, but matter-of-factness.) I can not.

This has long been obsolete in Finland. After the publication of Aleksandrowicz's research on the effect of water hardness on heart disease, water began to be mineralized.

misiekagh wrote:

Why do they take place in a 3-pin socket if the PE and phase return are the same wire (through the ground)?

Buddy, that's what the division into PE and N is for, because we protect first and then power it. When zeroing under load, the voltage to ground will appear at N.

misiekagh wrote:

TechEkspert wrote:

Thus, the circuit between the primary winding of the distribution transformer on the pole and the secondary winding of the isolation transformer is closed through the ground.

So that the transformer does not provide galvanic isolation? In the sense that the phase return is on the housing? Either I don't understand something or something is wrong. I'm sorry if it's the former.

So how do devices shield? :D

Why do they take place in a 3-pin socket if the PE and phase return are the same wire (through the ground)?

Perhaps they have earth of earth, and earth is not equal to earth, earth is not equal to earth

The distribution transformer of the SWER system lowers the voltage supplied by a single wire, the circuit closes by grounding, the secondary side supplies a low-value voltage to the consumers. The isolation transformer is usually powered by a two-wire line, lowering the voltage on the secondary side, one terminal provides power to a single conductor for distribution transformers, the other terminal is grounded.

rafbid wrote:

misiekagh wrote:

Why do they take place in a 3-pin socket if the PE and phase return are the same wire (through the ground)?

Buddy, that's what the division into PE and N is for, because we protect first and then power it. When zeroing under load, the voltage to ground will appear at N.

This is the main disadvantage of zeroing. If the resistance of the neutral wire is too high, too little current will flow and the fuse will not be turned off, and the voltage on the casing remains in relation to the ground (because the neutral wire is grounded at the transformer). Earthing (with a PE conductor) does not have this disadvantage, because a mA current leakage to the housing will trip the RCD and disconnect the power supply.
But this is what I wrote for those who do not know, because these are the basics of electrical engineering.

I understand that Americans use a different tension, it can be reasonably explained. But why do they need this cumbersome Fahrenheit scale? How does it relate to what we observe in everyday life?

japko1024 wrote:

I understand that Americans use a different tension, it can be reasonably explained. But why do they need this cumbersome Fahrenheit scale? How does it relate to what we observe in everyday life?

It has, only a little bit of a practicality.

japko1024 wrote:

But why do they need this cumbersome Fahrenheit scale?

Why does a colleague say it is bulky? The Americans don't have the slightest problem with her, neither do I. It's just a matter of habit.

japko1024 wrote:

How does it relate to what we observe in everyday life?

So exactly what does the colleague mean?
Maybe I will ask the opposite question - What is the Celsius scale related to your friend's everyday life?

Thanks to the Celsius scale, japko1024 knows how water behaves as a function of temperature. Its density is 1 kg / dm? at equal 3.98 ° and not 39.16 °. I couldn't live in a country where water has a density of 1 at 39.2 degrees, which is completely illogical.

oshii wrote:

Thanks to the Celsius scale, japko1024 knows how water behaves as a function of temperature. Its density is 1 kg / dm? at 3.98 ° instead of 39.16 °.

No irony please. Water changes state equally at 0 ° C (ice-water equilibrium) and at 100 ° C (water-saturated vapor equilibrium) Mr. Celsius has marked two points on the scale simply and logically
What did Mr. F do? "He adopted three reference points for his scale [1]: 0 ° F - the freezing point of a mixture of water, ice and ammonium chloride (for cholera, not for example table salt) in the proportions 1: 1: 1 (-17.78 ° C ), 32 ° F - the temperature of ice and water in a 1: 1 ratio, and 96 ° F - the temperature of the human body (3 times higher than the freezing point of water, 3 × 32 ° F = 96 ° F) [2] [3]. As soon as the scale was announced in 1724, a few years before his death, Fahrenheit made a final modification: He set the boiling point of water at 212 ° F, 180 ° more than a mixture of water and ice, as more important to science than human body temperature. the human body is 98.6 ° F [3]. " / after Wikipedia /

Polon_us wrote:

Maybe I will ask the opposite question - What is the Celsius scale related to your friend's everyday life?

Simple - the temperature below 0 ° means the possibility of black ice on the road and at 100 ° I cook the egg for exactly 3 minutes

vodiczka wrote:

Simple - the temperature below 0 ° means the possibility of black ice (...)

Possibility. And it can snow at +1 and rain at -1. So how does this arbitrary 0 differ from a practical point of view from 32? A number like a number.

vodiczka wrote:

(...) and at 100 ° I cook the egg for exactly 3 minutes

when you cook an egg, do you measure it, is it 100 degrees? I shoot it doesn't make any difference to you if the water is 100 ° C or 212 ° F, the effect is the same - it steams / gurgles intensely

vodiczka wrote:

Mr. Celsius made two points on the scale straight and logical

If I lived in Nepal, I would not see this logic, because the water would be bubbling at 98.4 ° C and I would have notoriously undercooked eggs by holding them in boiling water for 3 minutes