Why doesn't the US use 230V the way (almost) everyone does?

oshii wrote:

And it can snow at +1 and rain at -1

At +1 the snow melts and at -1 the rain freezes and forms black ice. Of course, for someone used to the scale, it does not matter whether black ice is formed at 272K, -1 ° C or 31 ° F
However, water is one of the bases of earthly life, and the choice of the temperatures of its phase changes into characteristic points of the scale in the times when it was not known what the lowest temperature could be achieved was brilliant in my opinion.

oshii wrote:

Possibility. And it can snow at +1 and rain at -1.

If it rains at -1, it will be a problem to walk because of the drastic drop in the coefficient of friction.

oshii wrote:

So how does this arbitrary 0 differ from a practical point of view from 32?

The fact that you only need one bit to write the first, and 6 to the second

oshii wrote:

when you cook an egg, do you measure it, is it 100 degrees? I shoot it doesn't make any difference to you if the water is 100 ° C or 212 ° F, the effect is the same - it steams / gurgles intensely

Water rarely boils at 100 ° C

Coming back to the topic.
I heard the opinion that individual recipients in the USA (single-family houses) get a connection of some kV (I do not remember exactly) and they have to pay for the transformer for 2x ~ 110V themselves. What is even more important is that the meter is supposedly located in front of this transformer, so the recipient pays for the losses on the hit itself, which makes it profitable to invest in an expensive transformer with small losses. These were the words of a lecturer in materials science on the occasion of discussing magnetic losses.

vodiczka wrote:

At +1 the snow melts and at -1 the rain freezes and forms black ice.

Well, unless we have +1 and the ground is still cold, then it rains and we also have black ice, and when the old men are sitting on the bench, my grandfather also has galoshes.

krystiann wrote:

I heard the opinion that individual recipients in the USA (single-family houses) get a connection of some kV (I do not remember exactly) and they have to pay for the transformer for 2x ~ 110V themselves. What is even more important is that the meter is supposedly located in front of this transformer, so the recipient pays for the losses on the hit itself, which makes it profitable to invest in an expensive transformer with small losses. These were the words of a lecturer in materials science on the occasion of discussing magnetic losses.

No balls, excuse me ... This is some bullshit. I've been living here for 22 years and I've never seen anything like it. And I've already toured the USA a bit.

2 x 110VAC is supplied to single-family houses and that's it. The owner of the house is only responsible for what he has brought into the house.
And he doesn't care how the 2x100VAC was made - whether the transformer on a pole or some other way. He is only responsible for what he has inside the house.

I wonder how they deal with the symmetry of the network load with us, if someone wants to significantly increase the connection power, it is recommended to connect the power of niches to increase the power of one phase.

rafbid wrote:

I wonder how they deal with the symmetry of the network load with us, if someone wants to significantly increase the connection power, it is recommended to connect the power of niches to increase the power of one phase.

They have 240 V phase-to-phase.

a_noob wrote:

They have 240 V phase-to-phase.

But one phase is the same as a 2 x 12 V transformer with a tap in the middle of the secondary winding.

I mean the symmetries of the phase load from the power plant.

bernanio wrote:

In the case of American lines, there is no such diagnostic option, I do not even see the option of checking whether a given line is overloaded or earthed, since the power supply is medium phase and a hoop at the pole (still in a sandy area)

With this only grounding of the MV windings it is a bit of an exaggeration. SWER is mainly used in Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. It's rather rare in the US, maybe somewhere in Alaska.
If you look closely, you will notice that the MV networks usually work there as a 4-wire one, i.e. with an additional neutral wire, which is earthed from time to time. It happens that in areas where no one needs 3 phases (i.e. residential) MV lines are single-phase (1 phase and neutral).
This conductor usually hangs lower than the phase conductors, below the transformers.

The rest is correct - ground faults are seen by the security devices as a normal operating state and are rarely turned off, hence all these special effects in the event of a failure.

The centers of the transformers' secondary windings are connected to the same neutral. If the MV network works as a 3-wire network and the transformers are connected phase-to-phase on the primary side, then the neutral grounded conductor is also present, but there is no connection to the MV network and only serves the LV part.

rafbid wrote:

I wonder how they deal with the symmetry of the network load with us, if someone wants to significantly increase the connection power, it is recommended to connect the power of niches to increase the power of one phase.

Standard home connection in the US is 2x120 / 240V with 200A main fuse. This is over 45 kW of connected power. If someone needs more, because, for example, he electrically heats a 600 m2 house or water in a swimming pool, 400A or 600A connections are also installed. The three phases do not apply in housing.
There is no problem with load asymmetry because these single-phase transformers on poles are connected to different MV phases.

By the way, the requirement in Poland of 3 phases with the power required by flats and houses (up to 20 kW) is stupid. Paradoxically, it is easier to maintain symmetry in the network at receivers with single-phase 100A connections than 3-phase 32A. With 3 phases, the energy supplier has no influence on the way the customer loads individual phases, while with the 1st phase, the customer can easily switch to another phase if necessary. There are also eternal problems with selectivity with such small pre-meter protections, there are also smaller short-circuit currents in the installation itself and there is no 400V anywhere (safety). A break in the N conductor at the client's place does not introduce asymmetry, because it would have to be interrupted only on the network. Plus, cheaper surge arresters (1-2 pole instead of 3-4) and disconnectors (1 pole instead of 3).

cit.
In his laboratory he hired an extremely creative genius Nikola Tesla - an engineer of Serbian origin. Tesla was the inventor of, among others electric motor, AC generator, bicycle dynamo, hydroelectric power station, solar battery, transformer and fluorescent lamp. In Edison's laboratory, he was responsible for increasing the power of the first power plant. He developed a project to introduce alternating current into it. For unknown reasons, Edison did not like this idea and he fired Tesla from his job. Deprived of livelihood Nikola Tesla was digging ditches in America, but the genius engineer was quickly asked by the Western Union Telegraph Company, which helped him to found the Tesla Electric Light Company. In the laboratories of his company, Tesla developed the foundations for the generation and transmission of alternating current, which are still used around the world today. Despite Edison's aggressive campaign against alternating current (Edison scared people that alternating current was dangerous to life and health), Tesla managed to build the first AC power plant and transmission line, which powered fluorescent lighting for all Western Union railroad stations in the Northeast. Despite the successes, Tesla went bankrupt - he was finished by the trial with Marconi - the designer of the radio based on Tesla patents. Sebski engineer won the trial posthumously. His notes and notebooks have disappeared from the hotel room in which he died, and his property was confiscated by the state, even though he was a full US citizen.


The USA in the nineteenth century was a very strange land - as if such a prototype of the USSR. Therefore, there is nothing to worry about their solutions (120V, miles, inches, pounds, Fahrenheits, two-phase three-phase networks ), only to modernize Polish transmission networks because they are in a deplorable condition.

amator2000 wrote:

Therefore, there is nothing to worry about their solutions (120V, miles, inches, pounds, Fahrenheits, two-phase three-phase networks )

Let's not forget about non-standard sockets in American Apple products

amator2000 wrote:

The USA in the nineteenth century was a very strange land - as if such a prototype of the USSR. Therefore, there is nothing to worry about their solutions (120V, miles, inches, pounds, Fahrenheits, two-phase three-phase networks ), only to modernize Polish transmission networks because they are in a deplorable condition.

What requires modernization in Polish transmission networks?
The elements are worn out and require replacement, or maybe they are technologically obsolete, or the infrastructure requires expansion?

TechEkspert wrote:

What requires modernization in Polish transmission networks?

The general condition of the Polish energy sector (including transmission networks) is deplorable, but I have long noticed that the Elektroda crew loves to pick on words instead of discussing the essence of the problem.

cit.
Polish power plants are already so old that, for technical reasons, about 60 percent should be shut down by 2030. gyms with a total capacity of about 20 thousand. MW. Technical decapitalisation level Polish power plants are already around 73 percent, 71% of transmission networks , and distribution as much as 75 percent.

We must acknowledge this and make it clear that over the last 20 years we have consciously aged the infrastructure by not investing only by consuming it - said Prof. Krzysztof Żmijewski.

http://energetyka.wnp.pl/zatrwazajacy-stan-techniczny-polskiej-energetyki,114745_1_0_0.html

From what I remember from the lecture, MV overhead lines do not have a grounded neutral point in the transformer and can work with single phase earth faults. The high-voltage and low-voltage lines are grounded.

Out of curiosity - why? Why exactly them?

amator2000 wrote:

TechEkspert wrote:

What requires modernization in Polish transmission networks?

The general condition of the Polish energy sector (including transmission networks) is deplorable, but I have long noticed that the Elektroda crew loves to pick on words instead of discussing the essence of the problem.

cit.
Polish power plants are already so old that, for technical reasons, about 60 percent should be shut down by 2030. gyms with a total capacity of about 20 thousand. MW. Technical decapitalisation level Polish power plants are already around 73 percent, 71% of transmission networks , and distribution as much as 75 percent.

We must acknowledge this and make it clear that over the last 20 years we have consciously aged the infrastructure by not investing only by consuming it - said Prof. Krzysztof Żmijewski.

http://energetyka.wnp.pl/zatrwazajacy-stan-techniczny-polskiej-energetyki,114745_1_0_0.html

If I understand correctly, power is reserved in infrastructure that has long been depreciated and requires modernization or replacement to ensure reliability, similar to the transmission grid.

[quote] Why exactly them?

Quote:

In my opinion, the reason lies in the construction of the so-called Petersen coil. It is a device that allows you to ground one phase and, without switching off the line, locate and remove the fault. I cannot imagine (although it could probably be built) such a coil for e.g. 220kV. It would be gigantic I suppose. For the same reasons, they are not made for 400 / 230V. Here, in turn, the cross section of wires would generate excessive costs and the number of these devices would have to be enormous. Every 15/230 trafo would have to have it. In addition, the effects of earth faults on 230V are of little importance and relatively harmless, while on HV lines they are extremely rare. They happen regularly at 15kV. Especially during stronger winds. These lines are often drawn between trees, and rarely does anyone bother to trim the branches. They often do it after the fact.

I personally think that all ŚN lines should be buried in rural areas. Although the costs of building an overhead line are lower, the service and environmental burden many times exceed the costs of underground construction if the period of, say, 20 years or more is taken into account.

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/D%C5%82awik_gasz%C4%85cy here link to the Petersen coil.

jaszczur1111 wrote:

I personally think that all ŚN lines should be buried in rural areas.

Dreamer

As for the condition of the power industry in Poland, it can be seen that there are funds for modernization works:
http://budownictwo.wnp.pl/pse-odrzuily-chincz...a-brak-wlasnego-potencjaalu,271744_1_0_0.html

They chose the cheapest and I wonder how much will come out. Usually, you need to add as much to the cheapest offer. :cry:

As for the burying of the 15-line line, I did not come up with anything innovative because, for example, our southern neighbors went in this direction. Although they are easier to understand due to the more difficult weather conditions in the mountainous terrain, digging in the mountains is much more expensive. And yet it pays off for them. I think they feel more at home than we do. It's the same as doing a renovation in an apartment. Either we paint and we pat, or we replace the alu wires with copper, and we do everything for years. Not only for the next term.

And a small digression: I once watched a program in which they showed a 220v bulb connected to 110, claiming that it would be eternal. Of course, eternal is not entirely and the color of the light sucks, not to mention efficiency, because it is under-weighted and warms more than it shines, although they claimed that a 200W bulb replaces 100. I wonder how many "poor" Americans have missed bulbs from the EU

jaszczur1111 wrote:

I think they feel more at home than we do.

Maybe their EVs are more profitable than ours?

jaszczur1111 wrote:

Either we paint and we pat, or we replace the alu wires with copper, and we do everything for years.

Simple solution, we raise electricity prices by 15%, and for the money we get, we dig and lay cables
You can plan a great renovation of the apartment, but when your wife reminds you that the money has just run out and the next payment the day after tomorrow, you will rather stop at pacing.

vodiczka wrote:

jaszczur1111 wrote:

I think they feel more at home than we do.

Maybe their EVs are more profitable than ours?

jaszczur1111 wrote:

Either we paint and we pat, or we replace the alu wires with copper, and we do everything for years.

Simple solution, we raise electricity prices by 15%, and for the money we get, we dig and lay cables
You can plan a great renovation of the apartment, but when your wife reminds you that the money has just run out and the next payment the day after tomorrow, you will rather stop at pacing.

They raise the price of electricity, but they do not invest anyway
As for the renovation, it turns out again that in order to save you have to be rich, the poor cannot afford to save, but have to pat.

I would put it this way: the poor cannot afford just anything. The costs of operating an overhead line are higher with a longer lifetime.

jaszczur1111 wrote:

the poor cannot afford just anything.

It's just a pretty metaphor. In life, the poor cannot afford credit because he has no creditworthiness. What will he buy something better than anything for?

koczis_ws wrote:

They raise the price of electricity, but they do not invest anyway

They increase very moderately, but take comfort that after taking unprofitable mines on the pot, the prices will increase to a greater extent

In the meantime, I came across material about plugs in the UK,
in short, a less convenient version of the plug used in Poland,
equipped with a fuse (related to the aforementioned economical approach to the construction of electrical installations).

With this voltage of 120 V and reversed by 180 degrees, gentlemen, that's an exaggeration ...
As an electrician I used to tinker overseas (they honored our SEP qualifications!) And today almost every apartment has three phases with a phase voltage of 127 V, which gives a line voltage of 230V. Ordinary lighting and small equipment are powered from a typical phase-zero system, while all "voracious" receivers, such as cooker hobs, laundry machines, hair dryers in bathrooms on fixed wires, air conditioners and almost everything with a power consumption of more than 1 kW are powered from inter-wire voltage, i.e. 220 / 230V. Zero is used as ground, but new installations already use the typical five-wire, L1, L2, L3, N and PE.
And more and more medium voltage circuits already have forwarding lines associated in a triangle with detection of leakage and asymmetry, which causes the automation to turn on.
The equipment that is used in the power grid is sometimes very old, I used to meet elements from the 1930s, but it is of excellent quality and very durable. the general rule is to use everything as long as possible.
And you have to be very careful, because depending on the years in which the installation was carried out, you can meet with very different equipment and the method of conducting the installation. What we have in Europe is law and order compared to what they have overseas. Differences "discovered" only recently .....

This is in a nutshell. For those interested, I recommend:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Electrical_Code

vodiczka wrote:

I heard the opinion that individual recipients in the USA (single-family houses) get a connection of some kV (I do not remember exactly) and they have to pay for the transformer for 2x ~ 110V themselves. What is even more important is that the meter is supposedly located in front of this transformer, so the recipient pays for the losses on the hit itself, which makes it profitable to invest in an expensive transformer with small losses. These were the words of a lecturer in materials science on the occasion of discussing magnetic losses.

Nonsense Akademia Pana Kleksa .. An industrial recipient pays for a transformer, if such a demand is made. Counters similar to ours, more and more electronic.

irekr wrote:

Today, almost every apartment has three phases with a phase voltage of 127 V, which gives a line voltage of 230V

Not really, only two-phase power is very popular (e.g. 220V single-phase air conditioners, etc.). He writes from Suriname, whose power grid is entirely modeled on the USA

Krzysztof Kamienski wrote:

Nonsense Mr. Kleks Academy ..

Why are you assigning words to me that I haven't written? Check out post # 62.

I sincerely apologize to you, but I did not address this post to you. Already so squeamish Are you all?

You don't have to apologize, just correct the entry
This is not a question of oversensitivity - you mistakenly associate my name with a quote that you then refer to as "bullshit".
Should I not react?

A friend of mine 20 years ago had all the English sockets at home. He had a lot of it because he is rich and he had a lot of electricity gadgets. He brought a bag of plugs for the future. These sockets are safer and more resistant to higher currents - that was his reason. The whole house is in paneling, so I partially share his view. Besides, he had a family in England and he used to bring his equipment from there.