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We are building our own NAS server

kassans 39174 128
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  • #91
    Bojleros
    Level 16  
    kassans wrote:
    Boileros what are you achieving 110mb / s on? For me, on freenas or xigmanas a ZFS formatted disk on average 25mb / s; /




    - old MEGARAID LSI controller, 512MB cache 3x 3TB WD red (5400rpm) raid5
    - https://www.asrock.com/mb/intel/q2900-itx/ (hack with sawing PCIe x1 so that the x4 card is plugged in :D ) + 16GB of ram
    - CentOS 7 ext4 + lvm, no tweaking

    ~ 100MB / s should easily produce any modern hard disk with sequential access (maybe depending on whether it is from the path on the rim or from the center of the plate). ZFS is a serious fs with built-in logical volume manager, deduplication, compression and raid-like (software) features. May take some resources to wake up. I don't know ZFS well, but if you have more than one disk, you can have it via softraid. Deduplication is unlikely to be turned on because it requires a lot of cpu and ram. Compression can be turned on, but I don't know if you have access to a terminal to check it out. For me, the same disks were making over 200MB / s even on a softraid, before buying the controller, but at the expense of the CPU.
  • #92
    pawelr98
    Level 39  
    For me, 50-80MB / s depending on what files. Typically 60-65MB / s.
    Athlon, as I said, cuts.

    1Gbit / s is 125MB / s and this is the theoretical maximum.
    But it is also influenced by what is on the way.
    Ie network accessories such as switches, routers

    As for the factory settings, it went 80-90MB / s, which was probably limited by the cheap Tplink switch.

    Maybe now, when I put the Cat6 cables, it will get those 100MB / s.
    Just finished stacking last week and haven't tested at normal timing yet.
    And I didn't put cheap U / UTP but S / FTP and F / UTP (FTP).
    S / FTP is hard because it is very stiff due to the extensive shielding.

    My dream would be to have 10Gbit / s. But at these prices, unrealistic.
    10Gbit / s "cheap" networks are basically only for SFP.
    And this is the minimum PLN 400-500 for RJ45.

    But from what I checked it is a cheaper alternative.
    2.5 Gbit / s network on cheap RTL8125 cards. about PLN 80 a piece and it seems to be able to use the standard Cat5e on shorter distances.
    Only to get a switch afterwards in this technology is already a problem because it is expensive.
    It's better to get two / three NAS power cables and make a switch on Linux right away.
  • #93
    kassans
    Level 32  
    For me, the network is not a problem because it will easily cover the 100mb / s :) a matter of system and settings. I have to figure it out because I was allowed to do something.
  • #94
    chemik_16
    Level 25  
    I have always had a stable 110MB / s after SMB in the 1Gb network, of course with large files (I have been downloading monitoring data for years)
    both on celeron 440, then on some i3, i5 3570 and now on ryzen 7 2700x.
    the cpu load for such a copy is none. Unless you're encrypting something.
  • #95
    Andrzej Ch.
    Level 31  
    On my Freenas I easily reach speeds (via cable) of 115-118MB / s, so full 1Gbit / s
  • #96
    Yazu
    Level 11  
    Not a better option for the home is Htpc with "Nas feature"? I was assembling from used parts, and it didn't come out so bad financially.
    The only drawback is the motherboard with a soldered processor. (ASRock J4205-ITX)

    We are building our own NAS server We are building our own NAS server
  • #97
    marik_te
    Level 22  
    I recommend the P710 and other machines of this type from Fjjitsu. It can accommodate several disks without combining, 4 ram slots and in my case with 3 disks in the idle it consumes less electricity than an atom.
  • #98
    Bojleros
    Level 16  
    pawelr98 wrote:
    My dream would be to have 10Gbit / s. But at these prices, unrealistic.
    10Gbit / s "cheap" networks are basically only for SFP.
    And this is the minimum PLN 400-500 for RJ45.

    But from what I checked it is a cheaper alternative.
    2.5 Gbit / s network on cheap RTL8125 cards. about PLN 80 a piece and it seems to be able to use the standard Cat5e on shorter distances.
    Only to get a switch afterwards in this technology is already a problem because it is expensive.
    It's better to get two / three NAS power cables and make a switch on Linux right away.


    Theoretically, port aggregation is also used. At home, you can aggregate a direct connection of two servers (without a switch) in the round-robin mode. Switches do not support round-robin and all other modes cannot scale a single tcp connection to more than one physical link. In the network in the server room you have a lot of connections, so it balances, at home it will not work.

    marik_te wrote:
    I recommend the P710 and other machines of this type from Fjjitsu. It can accommodate several disks without combining, 4 ram slots and in my case with 3 disks in the idle it consumes less electricity than an atom.


    It looks nice, but also consider the sizes. Another thing is that sometimes the prefabs have interesting solutions to prevent the use of parts from other suppliers. I don't remember the company anymore, but I used to have a tower server in which the plate and case were mirrored. With the cover open on the side of the board, all connectors were on the right side, not on the left side. All PCI cards were inserted into the slots so that the elements were facing upwards :)
  • #99
    chemik_16
    Level 25  
    Bojleros wrote:
    I don't remember the company anymore, but I used to have a tower server in which the plate and case were mirrored. With the cover open on the side of the board, all connectors were on the right side, not on the left side. All PCI cards were inserted into the slots so that the elements were facing upwards

    it's nothing special, the BTX / SFF standard, thanks to it you can arrange the elements more optimally. They are also easier to cool. Virtually every Dell has been looking like this for several years.
    The standard was supposed to be "the future of desktops", but everyone did it in their own way :)
  • kassans
    Level 32  
    Just fujitsu / lenovo has normal motherboards, of course, does not apply to BTX / SFF :D
  • pawelr98
    Level 39  
    Bojleros wrote:

    Theoretically, port aggregation is also used. At home, you can aggregate a direct connection of two servers (without a switch) in the round-robin mode. Switches do not support round-robin and all other modes cannot scale a single tcp connection to more than one physical link. In the network in the server room you have a lot of connections, so it balances, at home it will not work.


    I would not like to play with aggregation because the wiring is too expensive and it takes up too much space.

    2.5GBASE-T is already available on some motherboard models.
    It seems Asrock introduced the top Z390 boards.

    Why not 10GBASE-T? Because 2.5GBASE-T and 5GBASE-T can work on Cat 5E without any problems, which gives significant savings on cabling.

    Only the switches are still as hellishly expensive. As I mentioned, the chainsaws are already affordable.
    Making your own switch is a profitable thing because there are a lot of excavator plates with a few PCIE slots. You can get a set for 150-200 PLN.
    Depending on how I go with the attempt to connect the fiber-optic internet across the street (5m separates me from the optical fiber), maybe I will build something like this.
  • Bojleros
    Level 16  
    chemik_16 wrote:
    it's nothing special, the BTX / SFF standard, thanks to it you can arrange the elements more optimally


    U thanks, haven't heard of that :)

    pawelr98 wrote:
    I would not like to play with aggregation because the wiring is too expensive and it takes up too much space.


    Still much cheaper than 10G and you also have redundancy.

    pawelr98 wrote:
    Making your own switch is a profitable thing because there are a lot of excavator plates with a few PCIE slots. You can get a set for 150-200 PLN.


    First, try to find out if someone has already tried it and if someone has not died. 10GBit means very low latency but also high pps even when using the jumbo frame. If you do, then publish a benchmark with decent statistics. It may be interesting for smaller businesses ;)
  • Tulkas_42
    Level 13  
    The advantage of NAS devices is their low power consumption, especially in sleep mode (usually a few Watts) and system software that allows you to access files both via a cable network and Wi-Fi. In addition, data security is important (RAID systems and encryption).
    If we build a NAS of our own idea on the basis of power-consuming components (400 Watt power supply) and software that will not be updated and supported, it is better to buy a good quality external drive with high capacity and give yourself peace of mind with building such a device. I am writing this on the basis of my own many years of experience (also in building a NAS on my own), which a few years ago ended with the purchase of Netgear proprietary devices, and then QNAP and Asustor. Everything we build is useful. By the way, we learn and gain experience. Greetings to all constructors.
  • amajcher
    Level 11  
    noyo wrote:
    I went with the Intel Atom DN2800MT + 2x WD red 1TB


    Well, I have a DN2800MT which has many advantages (small size, low power consumption, quiet), but also has disadvantages:
    1. realistically only supports 2 SATA disks. If we want to put the system on SSD (so that it is fast and quiet) and data on HDD-plates, the third disk for data backup or RAID is missing. I tried to give the system a USB 2.0 Flash, but they fall after a year (probably 2 or 3 times for me), even when typing / logging is turned off.

    1a. You can plug in 3 SATA cables, but the controller shared some resources and after 1 minute of copying the files, the disk unmounts, so it does not work either.

    1b. The USB ports are version 2.0 so too slow for a SATA adapter.

    2. I have linux, but if someone needs Windows, there are problems with the graphics card, ie I tried it once and it did not work (apparently a known problem but it will not be solved).

    If anyone has a really working solution, especially for '1', please let me know.
  • Karaczan
    Level 41  
    Quote:
    If we build a NAS of our own idea based on power-consuming components (400 Watt power supply) and software that will not be updated


    My PC-based NAS, when it had the Core2Duo E4300, consumed 12W at rest. After replacing it with Xeon, it takes 25W.
    Whether it's a lot or a little is a relative matter.
    I have electricity for years for the price of the corporate NAS ;)

    How and who says that there are no software updates in home NAS?
    I would even say that NAS, for example on Debian, has more frequent updates than the corporate ones ;)
  • Tulkas_42
    Level 13  
    amajcher wrote:
    Intel Atom DN2800MT

    Everything's fine. But for a NAS server, that's not very suitable. There are no USB3 ports, a second Ethernet network port. It should also be taken into account whether the RAID is implemented in hardware or in software.
    A relatively efficient file server requires a modern, low-voltage and low power consumption 4 core processor (eg Intel Celeron Braswell) and 4GB DDR4 RAM operating in dual channel mode. Then we can achieve transfers within 220 MB / s. Of course, on gigabyte Ethernet links. The most important thing, however, is the system software. The free ones are only theoretically enough. Most often they are not updated on a regular basis and are less useful in practice. In home conditions, the role of archival storage is best replaced with traditional large-capacity external hard drives. They are durable and reliable, especially in seasonal operation.
  • pawelr98
    Level 39  
    They are updated. Debian as well as tools.
    Samba has been several times this year alone.
    https://www.samba.org/samba/history/


    And USB 3.0 drives are probably just to keep things falling apart.
    The external hard drives themselves are no different than those sold separately.
    They only have a housing and sometimes an external power supply.

    But they are fit for one thing, the disk donor. I remember there is a model of external WD drives where they sell cheaper than the identical one in bulk. People often only buy to pull their hard drives out and use them in computers and servers.

    New equipment is almost never calculated, unless we get the opportunity.
    What a colleague will save on electricity, the colleague has to pay more for the equipment.
    And it doesn't matter, unless your friend is going to stay 10 years.
    During this time, it will either lose support or it will fall apart.

    And your own equipment, you can sometimes get the whole platform for pennies and the parts are normally interchangeable.
    Podstarzowane Celerony / Pentiumy Ivy Bridge sometimes I saw a dozen zlotys for olx.
    The boards for LGA1155 are quite cheap and there are a lot of them, there is plenty to choose from.
    "Excavator" boards can be bought cheaply, they provide a lot of PCIE ports (I know they are multiplexed, but probably you will not know what data traffic at once) for network cards and what you need there.
  • Karaczan
    Level 41  
    As for external drives, they can differ a lot ;)
    A few times I hit non-SATA drives with a USB grommet, and the USB was already on the disk PCB itself.

    Quote:
    Then we can achieve transfers within 220 MB / s. Of course, on gigabyte Ethernet links.

    Interestingly, you won't send more than about 120MB / s with gigabit ethernet
  • Tulkas_42
    Level 13  
    pawelr98 wrote:
    They are updated. Debian as well as tools.
    Samba has been several times this year alone.
    And USB 3.0 drives are probably just to keep things falling apart.
    New equipment is almost never cost effective, unless ... ... etc.


    Reasoning like this, nothing in life will pay off.
    I do not negate the construction of my own structures, because it is cheap, because it is an opportunity, etc.
    However, I still argue that the practical use of the structure on occasional components is quite limited. As for the drives, the traditional (disc) drives also fail in different types of housings. So very rarely. The designers of high-quality continuous drives have come to perfection for decades. Literally dozens. But if someone throws them, anything can happen. I even know such "DIYers" who take them apart and repair them. If we take shortcuts and do not want any extra expenses, a modern computer and an ordinary FTP protocol are enough to send anything quickly and efficiently on the network. I have 4x1TB SSDs on my AS6404T home server, which have replaced the larger WD Red. This is because everything I had before (including my own designs) reminds me of hourly transfers and a turtle pace. Of course, nothing is free like everything in this world. :)
    When it comes to updating the server software, no images, but my friend probably never used HP, Microsoft or even QNAP or Synology server systems. I use them on a daily basis at work, so I know what I am writing about. However, at home, knowledge of free tools and protocols is enough.

    Added after 13 [minutes]:

    As for the speed of transfer over the Ethernet cable, you need to have appropriate quality cabling and gigabyte (which does not mean only 1GB) outputs from the router. When you have everything cheap and bargain, this is the transfer. Plus, small files go slower, but that's another problem.
  • pawelr98
    Level 39  
    Tulkas_42 wrote:

    As for the speed of transfer over the Ethernet cable, you need to have appropriate quality cabling and gigabyte (which does not mean only 1GB) outputs from the router. When you have everything cheap and bargain, this is the transfer. Plus, small files go slower, but that's another problem.


    Gigabyte is a minimum of 8Gbit / s cable connection needed.
    Either the 10Gbit / s network or the aggregation mentioned here.
    Very, very expensive, fun.

    These 220MB / s to be achieved on two gigabit links with aggregation.

    I have the HP ML350 G5 at my house.
    But I will not use this for NAS, because power consumption and build quality (cooling) are at a rather poor level.
    My copy got an additional fan on the RAM FB-DIMM (from ~ 75-80 C to some 60 C, the factory tunnel was always installed) and larger heat sinks for mercilessly heating bridges.

    FTP is not very convenient.
    With SMB, you can simply map a network drive and use it like a local.

    We are building our own NAS server

    For me, the matter of doing it yourself and buying a ready-made product is a choice between sitting for a while and paying for someone to solve these problems for us. If someone's working hour is highly paid, he may be able to buy a cash instead of sitting and doing it.

    What we do not spend on the device, we can spend on disks and get more capacity or higher speed.
    And that was what guided me, the main parts are modernization remains.
    The entire budget went to hard drives and the controller.
  • Bojleros
    Level 16  
    pawelr98 wrote:
    For me, the matter of doing it yourself and buying a ready-made product is a choice between sitting for a while and paying for someone to solve these problems for us. If someone's working hour is highly paid, he may be able to buy a cash instead of sitting and doing it.


    When you buy it, you often have a nice compact housing with drawers for discs. The motherboard of something like this is not standard and if it falls, you won't be able to do it easily. Personally, I prefer to have something less compact, maybe even more expensive, but with standard components.

    pawelr98 wrote:
    These 220MB / s to be achieved on two gigabit links with aggregation.


    Are you achieving it on Samba? I have aggregation in several places, but imo at home, in practice, you will not gain performance because most aggregation modes do not scale a single IP connection into two physical links. You have to wait until 10Gbit is popularized by SOHO. The only problem is that currently most devices are wifi, so such popularization may not take place.
  • muzi7
    Level 10  
    See, buddy, you have a great topic for an article, I think you would make a lot of people happy in PL, Regards
    I see the article is already here. I have info about another friend's topic in my e-mail as popular topics of 2020
  • samedi
    Level 11  
    I'm getting ready to buy and put together ...
    Of course, I am looking for used components to be cheaper, but I give it from Ebay
    Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-J3455N-D3H around 100Euro
    Memory: Crucial CT2K4G4SFS824A 8GB (4GB x2) about 50Euro
    Power adapter: PicoPSU-90 12V DC-DC ATX Mini-ITX 0-90W about 15Euro
    Power supply: Salcar Netzteil 86W Trafo 12V 8A about 20Euro
    Flash drive: the mini one
    Housing: mhhhh I will make wooden for my own needs with 4 2.5 'disks 2GB each because I have such an old metal one, so only wires will be useful, switches and USB reset
    185Euro comes out of new prices, but as I wrote, I'm looking for cheaper
    I see it like this
    You can always change the disc to a cheaper one and the memory is supposed to consume as little power as possible, therefore the disc together with the Prock

    The server will be on xpenology
    The whole thing is folded looking at the DS918 + about 500Euro

    Currently I'm testing xpenology DS918 + on GB-BXBT-1900 (rev. 1.0) 1 2TB 2.5 'drive and I'm very happy kids have their own Minecraft server me Own website young music and movies Jdownloader is fine
    Just something else that will send my private files to the hamster for backup
  • orlicki12
    Level 5  
    Hello. I can see that Christmas carols have a lot of experience in building home NAS. Therefore, I would like to ask if the motherboard with the J1900N-D3V processor can be used in a home NAS? My main concern is to put up an OMV from owncloud. Alternatively, what else could you recommend for the price of about PLN 200 for the motherboard itself?
  • samedi
    Level 11  
    Probably this is how I had the GB-BXBT-1900 / 4GB on a daily basis and it works 10 winnings 24 / h.
    I installed xpenology there and a virtual machine with win7N on it and it worked, it was not enough memory revelation, but the Synology system worked fine, and on the Jdownloader and hamster win.
    I tested it for over a week without problems, but to be sure from the design I gave above, I used asrock J4105-ITX changes, ddr 4 and a larger Pico + power supply.
    I thought I had more, I had to delete it on this Brix j1900
    We are building our own NAS server
  • Hetii
    Level 16  
    I wonder if there is any advantage of loading all windows and additional software than some modest Linux with dedicated NAS software? I have the impression that your solution will in total have more resources and electricity than something similar on Linux and, for example, on some SoC.
  • Karaczan
    Level 41  
    But they're all based on Linux ;)
    Somehow I do not associate someone in this thread with NAS on Windows ...

    Some bet on routers, RPi, some other ARMs, and some on x86. Who has at hand ...
  • orlicki12
    Level 5  
    Hello. I just built my first NAS. My configuration is:
    - Gigabyte GA-J1900N D3V motherboard with integrated Celeron
    - 4GB RAM SO-DIMM DDR3L 1600MHz motherboard lowers to 1333MHz
    - Chieftec PSF 180MP SFX power supply
    - Chieftec CT-BT02 chassis
    - Chinese SSD per system
    - HDD from the laptop
    - mini PCI-E to SATA 3 adapter from China for expansion up to 4x SATA
    Puki making the system work nice. Ultimately, plans to replace all disks. The system is OMV with: Emby, ownCloud, DuckDNS installed in the docker. In samba, it obtains a stable 100Mb / s, i.e. the maximum that can be obtained after a gigabyte.
    However, I have a question for my colleagues if and how do you make backups of the system disk?
  • procsa
    Level 30  
    orlicki12 wrote:
    However, I have a question for my colleagues if and how do you make backups of the system disk?


    I use a bootable pen with the "AOEMI Backupper" program and download the whole disk image to the server, manual work; / But I do it because I have / had problems with Win10 which probably crashed the bootable partition and it was not even possible to restore the system.

    I recently launched an old SUPER P8SC8 motherboard on a Pentium IV 3Ghz DDR2 2GB RAM 333Mhz, nothing special but the board has two gigabit ports, maybe someone knows what will be the limitation in the bandwidth of the pentium IV 3Ghz processor here? If I have time, maybe I will connect two disks in the raid and test it. Currently, I'm "tired" of D-Link DNS-320L, max speed 70MB / s, but usually 40 ... the only plus is that with 2 disks it takes as much pad as the TV decoder. But my guess is that such an old P IV set will not consume 15W only from 100 ...; /
  • pawelr98
    Level 39  
    Pentium 4 is basically recyclable.
    It heats up nasty, it barely competed with the Athlon 64 with a much slower clock and there is nothing to hold onto it.
    For fun, at best, to learn and test the solutions.

    You can buy a lot of some Celeron or Ivy bridge pentiums, or sometimes even newer ones, along with a plate and a frame for dog money. After the cryptocurrency crash, there is a lot of it on auction portals to this day.
    Even somewhere in the area, someone will probably find and you will not have to shell out for shipping and risk fraud.